| Author | Message | ||
| beelee
Member Username: beelee Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2004 |
I recently visited the Status Graphite website to look at their Buzzard I and Mark King Artist basses and could no longer find the Buzzard I bass, so I emailed Rob Green and this is what he had to say: "Unfortunately, we have a problem with future production of the Buzzard-1 bass. To my surprise, John Entwistle's lawyers have recently signed an exclusive agreement with a German bass company for the use of John's name, signature and image regarding anything to do with bass guitars. This excludes us from any production of the bass John used for the last 10 years. " I can guess who the unmentioned german company is. I was very disappointed to receive this news. I feel this is very unfair to Status Graphite and anyone else that would be interested in owning one of these fine instruments. Mr. Entwistle went to them to build his bass and Status Graphite should still have the right to make them as much as "W" does. I feel it is in poor judgement and in John's generous nature he would not have wanted this to occur. Well at least there still is the Spyder, Explorer and Dragon Wing Alembic models to choose from. I do prefer wood over graphite, but the Status Graphite Buzzard I bass is (was) a pretty neat looking bass. That really ticks me off tho, I can only imagine how Rob Green feels. Bruce (Message edited by beelee on October 02, 2005) | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 478 Registered: 7-2003 |
Bruce, yes you are right. This is really a shame and the german company you refer to is W......! I had heard about this as a rumour on the german music fair in February and Rob had confirmed this to me some months ago. In the meantime I heard from him that they are judicially also trying to have him destroyed the Buzzard molds. Also the Buzzard 2 may not named Buzzard any more and has to be named B-2 now. Problem is that they own the rights now on the name Buzzard and also the name John Entwistle in collaboration with any musical instrument. You also can see it with the W...... Cruiser/Stryker bass, which was advertised as fully endorsed by the Entwistle estate. Well, I really donīt know what there is happening. Well, the Cruiser/Stryker is a really bad rip-off of our beloved Spyders. I know about what I am speaking, as I do own and play both a Spyder 4 and Spyder 8 and I am waiting on a Dragon Wing. I am sure that the prices on the Buzzard I will go up soon even when you keep in mind that only a really few were buildt. I donīt think that there are more than 25-30 Buzz I out there. And five of them are in the posession of the Hard Rock Cafe and are hanging at the wall. And also there are at least only 3 8-string Buzzards out there. Now a really rare bird ! If you need any more info, plse let me know. Many greetings Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| mattheus
Intermediate Member Username: mattheus Post Number: 136 Registered: 5-2003 |
This is not the way things should work... Shame on W..... | ||
| beelee
Intermediate Member Username: beelee Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2004 |
Rob is a great guy, I spoke with him on the phone almost 2 years ago about the Buzzard and King basses in detail, as I was really interested in having both made in the near future for myself. If I knew this was going to happen, I would have gotten off my arse, got a loan or something to get a Buzzard or 2 made ( a 5 and an 8 possibly) that really bites, I wish something could be done about this.......... its just not right | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 361 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm glad I bought my Buzzard when I did. I'd be extremely fed-up if I'd missed the boat on this, I love my Buzzard! And the way Status have been treated is appalling!! Rog | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2104 Registered: 9-2002 |
Yep ...I remember you receiving that bass. As a gift of your wife ....iff I remember well??? Anyway ...it seems to become a true gem. Paul TBO | ||
| ox_junior
Advanced Member Username: ox_junior Post Number: 271 Registered: 3-2004 |
I spoke to Rob a few months ago...he had me THIS CLOSE to getting a graphite Buzzard. Now I'm kicking myself for not getting the real thing while I had the chance. Sorry but a W#%^&*! Buzzard doesn't compare to the graphite Status version. There's a reason why John switched from wood to graphite. Sucks that we no longer have the same option, as far as this instrument is concerned. Thank goodness for my customized Spyder!!! | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 362 Registered: 1-2003 |
Paul - yes, it was my 40th birthday present from Jacqueline. I think there are about 40 Status Graphite Buzzards of varying configurations in existence. Of the first two prototypes (without the serial numbers), only one survives as one of them failed and collapsed. I'm not sure if these are counted in the total number built. Rob told me that (without checking the records) there are only two 8-strings in existence (one of which was John's) and one fretless (which was also John's). It's largely academic now. There won't be any more. I won't be buying a "W" bass in future either!! Cheers, Rog | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 480 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hi Rog my friend, how are you? I hope fine. As for the 8strings, there are 3 pieces out there. Two were owned (and now in HRC posession) by John and one is owned by a private person. Seems, that the prices go up. I have two offers for regular Buzz 1`s. One guy is asking 7500 EUR, the other one EUR 11000......... Rog, you lucky one to have done the decision to have gotten it as a gift right in time.... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 363 Registered: 1-2003 |
I'm fine thanks, Oliver. Spending FAR too much time getting my new business off the ground but at least it's fun and also I'm working for myself, and not for someone else. How are things with yourself? I didn't know John had two 8-strings. Rob said he had one but he hadn't checked the build records and for the number of instruments Status sell, I'm sure we can all forgive him forgetting details! My Buzzard isn't for sale, but it's interesting to see how much people want for theirs! Rog | ||
| mattheus
Intermediate Member Username: mattheus Post Number: 137 Registered: 5-2003 |
Let make those 'W' guys crazy and ask for info about the real JE all-graphite Buzzard basses there.... hahaha I hope that Alembic has covered their rights for the Spyder basses... | ||
| karl
Member Username: karl Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2002 |
That's terrible news. But it does explain something for me: a while back I bought a copy of the coffee table book of photographs of JE's bass collection - can't remember what it's called, but it's got a white 'W' Buzzard on the cover. Anyway, it's a beautiful book, but I was concerned by the fact that it didn't show any of JE's Status Buzzard basses, particularly given the fact that those were what he had been using in the majority of the last few years' of photos I'd seen of him. There were of course loads of shots of his 'W' Buzzards in there. I'd always wondered why Status seemed to have been left out of the book, and I guess this lawsuit explains why. It seems particularly sad because JE seemed to have a very good relationship with Status - I recall him appearing in a lot of their ads. I'm no expert but I can't imagine John would have wanted Rob Green and Status to be treated in such a way after many years of providing great instruments for him. Very sad, and I'm definitely resolved never to use 'W' gear as a result of hearing this. I would add that I heartily recommend Rob Green and Status: they really care about their customers and their instruments and never provide anything less than perfect service. K. | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 482 Registered: 7-2003 |
Karl, I just wanted to let you know why there are no Status basses in Johns book. Well, it has nothing to do with this lawsuit matter. Reason is that the complete photographing of this book has been made in the early ninetees. The book was for discussion to be published in the early 90ies but never found itīs way. So now after Johns dead they did publish it. Thatīs the reason why there are no Status basses in it as John didnīt own any at this early stage. Many greetings Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1087 Registered: 9-2003 |
See, this is why Herr Baumann is indespensible as the site's leading JAE historian! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm quite staggered that this is the case. I'm sure John would've preferred Rob to have exclusive rights if anyone did, seeing as they became his bass of choice. I feel rather glad that I recently sold my last Warwick, however nice it was. And there goes my chance of ever getting a Buzzard....maybe a B2 instead? | ||
| beelee
Intermediate Member Username: beelee Post Number: 103 Registered: 11-2004 |
I don't really have any experience with Warwick basses, although I have tried one, it didn't do anything for me compared to all the other basses I own/play. Now considering how Warwick pulled the rug out from under Status Graphite, you couldn't give me one of their basses for free, even one of their buzzards. I wish something could be done about this, a petition or the like. and they have the nerve to copy the Alembic Exploiter/ Spyder basses !! It would be nice to find a used SG Buzzard ( not very likely) and what one would cost now after speaking to Oliver. maybe a Dragon wing is in my future.... | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 192 Registered: 10-2003 |
The stupid thing is, I don't really see that the Status would've caused Warwick too many problems sales-wise; very few people could afford them anyway, and anyone set on the graphite version would be unlikely to buy a Warwick instead (and vice versa). It just seems rather petty. Given John's penchant for playing basses many and varied I'm sure he would've preferred to see both manufacturers continue producing these instruments. Actually, a petition sounds like a fun idea, although I can't imagine it would achieve much...maybe Alembic should jump on them for that Exploiter/Spyder rip-off? Now that would serve them right.....although maybe Gibson would have something to say in the argument.... | ||
| beelee
Intermediate Member Username: beelee Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 |
I couldn't agree with you more Bill, Status is such a small company......how many Buzzards could they of actually made and sold ? SG is no threat to Warwick's instrument sales, there are so many bass choices out there how many of either kind of Buzzard would people buy anyway ? Just another big company screwing the little guy....its really a shame. | ||
| harald_rost
Member Username: harald_rost Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2002 |
It seems to be that Karl Marx' theory of capitalism comes true within the bass building community. Of course one has to consider that originally the Buzzard was a design developed by Warwick together with John Entwistle. First rights - first rules. Ironically Warwicks first bass design - the shape of the Streamer - was nothing but a copie from the first Spector. | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 486 Registered: 7-2003 |
Harald, sorry, but I have to correct you. The design of the Buzzard was the sole idea of John Entwistle and not in collaboration with Warwick. As John went to the Musik Messe in 1984 he did his first contacts with Warwick and they agreed that Warwick would build the Buzzard. But the design as said is only John effort. Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| katana_6506
New Username: katana_6506 Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2005 |
Shame on Warwick. Their Spyder reindition is extremely poor-looking-that ugly paddle headstock doesn't mesh well with the Explorer body shape at all. My heart goes out to Rob Green on this. | ||
| zn_bassman
Junior Username: zn_bassman Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2005 |
Oliver, re: Buzzard design: I read somewhere that John got drunk in a pub with the owner of Warwick, and they finalized the Buzzard's design right there in the pub. That would probably have been in '84 or '85 - if I'm not mistaken, the first project on which John used his Warwick Buzzard prototype was his solo album, 'The Rock', which was recorded and had its release aborted due to legal problems in '86. One song, 'Too Much Too Soon', features John's only known fretless recording (a solo halfway through the song using an elusive Warwick Buzzard fretless). Any thoughts? And Warwick is indeed petty and undeserving of Buzzard sales... Zvi | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 493 Registered: 7-2003 |
Zvi, yes you are right. And the fretless Warwick Buzzard is the one that is shown in the book on Johns collection. But he also owned and used a Wal fretless bass back then. As for me personally, I sold my Warwick Buzzard and I hate such things. Honestly said, my Warwick had a neck like a hockey stick and the Warwick Cruisers (the Explorer type body) had a neck that wide and thick that it was not playable... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| zn_bassman
Junior Username: zn_bassman Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2005 |
Anybody know if John ever recorded or performed with his Wal fretless? Or which bass(es) he played on his solo tour in 1987? Interesting how he praised Alembics (and aptly demonstrated why) on his Hot Licks audio instructional tapes - these were made after The Who broke up in '82, but was it before the Live Aid incident? All of the pix on the cover and some in the booklet have him with a Spyder, but the technique close-ups have him with a P-bass (which he plays through most of the tapes). His Hot Licks video has an Alembic on the front, but he plays a black Ibanez throughout the vid. I played a W*rw*ck Corvette not long ago - nice "shredding" high end, decent mids, but muddy and undefined lows. In an agonizing decision a few months ago (helped with advice from Graeme, Oliver, Stoney, Irwin, and others), I bought a Rogue instead of a B2. I still want the B2, and if I ever get the $ together to buy one, I'll be thinking of W*rw*ck when I transfer the funds... | ||
| ed_r
New Username: ed_r Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 |
I don't know that Warwick is the guilty party here, folks. I suspect it has more to do with the family and etate than it does Warwick. You CAN still get a graphite buzzsrd built, it just won't be built by or carry the brand name of Status. No guitar company on earth would come down on anyone who comnmissions or accepts a commision for an exact replica of a John Entwhistle Buzzard, if it's only a single piece , or even as many as 5. THere are certain requirements for cease and disist orders, and a single or a series of single pieces is more of a tribute in functional sculpture as opposed to 'trying to capitalize on Entwhistle's name and reputation', which is what his estate is doing. There's no legal ramification in the world that can prevent someone making these in future. I want one! ;) | ||
| borisspyder
Junior Username: borisspyder Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, but who is going to spend the tens of thousands of dollars on the tooling and dies? And who besides Status and perhaps Modulus has the experience & skillset to build it? | ||
| ed_r
New Username: ed_r Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2005 |
It wouldn't cost tens of thousands to build a set of molds, it'd run under 5 grand for the whole deal, I'd bet. And I've got enough carbon-fiber experience to have built model helicopter blades of graphite, it can't be much tougher than that! | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 369 Registered: 1-2003 |
Ed_r - re: your second post in this thread - you're dreaming. Borisspyder is right on the money here. If you really think you can mould a Buzzard using graphite based on your experience of creating graphite helicopter blades and you think it's not much tougher - I'm sure the whole Alembic Club would love to see the result! I don't want to put you off, but Status Graphite had 15 years or so of experience of creating graphite instruments at the point they first attempted the graphite Buzzard. One of the two prototype Buzzards failed and "caved-in", to quote both Rob Green and John Entwistle. I own a Status Graphite Buzzard and I seriously doubt that you or 99.99% of the rest of the world population could create one. It's a bit like saying Joe Bloggs in his garden shed with a few tools and bits of wood could create an Alembic Dragon's Wing - it's not going to happen is it? I could add a well-known UK saying here but it's quite aggressive, so I'll skip. Rog | ||
| ed_r
New Username: ed_r Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2005 |
Roger, I can appreciate your opinion. Really, Honest;) One of the things to bear in mind when thinking I couldn't duplicate what Status did is that I'm not breaking any new ground, I have a blueprint to work from. I don't need to carve a new mold, I can use an existing Status instrument as a master for a new one and go from there. Status already did the hard part for me. Another area I don't need to waste time in is reinforcement- I can take a look at a Status instrument and do it like they do. It's not too difficult to do. It's sort of like the difference between painting a portrait of someone from scratch and painting by numbers. When painting from scratch I need to decide and am in total control of everything, from what color to what brush stroke to what brush to what lighting to where to when to how to - to everything. THat's a lot of responsibilty. Rob at Status has already done the hard part for me, so all I have to do is make a set of molds, take a few x-rays, and solve a few issues as they arise. Now, I'm not saying it's going to happen, and I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to distinguish between my replica and a real one, but I AM saying it's entirely within the realm of possibility to do. I've done graphite helicopter blades, they spin up at around 250 MPH carrying loads of up to 50 pounds travelling at speeds in excess of 60 mph through the air in three dimensions, I am sure I could beef up a neck and body enough to cover the string tensions of a longscale bass. I've done Les Paul and V and Explorer and Strat and Tele replicas for myself, from scratch- piles of raw wood. I've built cars. I know it's entirely possible for a human to do anything they set their minds to. Now, that being said, I don't have the time or resources to devote to such a project at the moment anyway so Rob and Warwick are both safe;) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 728 Registered: 7-2004 |
Rog: I agree that building model helicopter blades doesn't train you to build world class musical instruments, (heck, I built a Heathkit guitar amp when I was 13 - I still don't think I could build a computer from scratch). But strange things have happened in the past. As many in this club are aware, there was a guy named Stephen Cripe who used wood from an old opium bed and a few tools in his shed to build the "Bolt" guitar that Jerry Garcia played for the last few years of his life. Bill, tgo |
