| Author | Message | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 225 Registered: 7-2007 |
What do people think of possibly installing strap locks on my Alembic Orion 4? Never used them before and a bit reluctant to interfere with the instrument. Loxx seem to have a good write up. Glynn | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6278 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've installed Schaller strap locks on all my Alembics and other guitars. Love 'em! Never heard of the Loxx before. They look like a cross between the Dunlop strap locks, and the ragtop fasteners on my 1958 Triumph TR3. I prefer the Schallers - even if the lock fails,(which it never has in many years of use on numerous guitars), the Schallers will stay attached by gravity. One caveat with the Schallers, and any strap locks: regularly check to insure all the nuts are tight and haven't loosened up. Bill, tgo | ||
| wayne
Advanced Member Username: wayne Post Number: 231 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yes. Pick your flavor and use them. (+1 for what Bill said - check the connections regularly) C-Ya............wayne | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2312 Registered: 2-2005 |
From my first Alembic they have all been delivered with Schaller strap locks included in the case. I wouldn't play without them. What I do is tighten the strap nut down over a few days as the leather compresses. After that I loosen the nut and put a small dab of Locktite blue on the threads and re-tighten the nut. I've never had one loosen up after doing that. I also give the button a twist and jiggle before hooking up to make sure the screw hasn't loosened. I used to do the same on my non-Alembics in my pre strap lock days. Keith | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 696 Registered: 12-2004 |
I've been using DiMarzio strap locks on all my Alembics for years. I'm not a huge fan of the button style strap locks. | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 697 Registered: 12-2004 |
I've been using DiMarzio strap locks on all my Alembics for years. I'm not a huge fan of the button style strap locks. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6280 Registered: 7-2004 |
One other thing about the Schallers; if your strap breaks or the locking part fails, you can still use a regular strap in a pinch. If your recessed strap locks, or a DiMarzio type system fails, you'll be doing the gig sitting down. Bill, tgo | ||
| jcdlc72
Senior Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 446 Registered: 11-2009 |
Dunlop straplocks guy here. Except on Floyd-Rose trem guitars and all my non-alembic 5er basses (DiMarzio Cliplocks), and on my "Van-Halen-ized" 5150 clone guitar (Formerly an US-made Peavey Tracer), which has the "hard way" strap lock by using eye hooks and washers (washer-strap eye-washer-tightened eye hook). A little wild, yes... | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1966 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I've installed Schaller strap locks on all my Alembics and other guitars. Love 'em! Never heard of the Loxx before. They look like a cross between the Dunlop strap locks, and the ragtop fasteners on my 1958 Triumph TR3. I prefer the Schallers - even if the lock fails,(which it never has in many years of use on numerous guitars), the Schallers will stay attached by gravity. One caveat with the Schallers, and any strap locks: regularly check to insure all the nuts are tight and haven't loosened up." "One other thing about the Schallers; if your strap breaks or the locking part fails, you can still use a regular strap in a pinch. If your recessed strap locks, or a DiMarzio type system fails, you'll be doing the gig sitting down." Allow me to strongly second Bill's thoughts; all Schaller all the time! Keep them tight and they will not fail; Dunlops will. I also had never heard of Loxx, but a quick search shows nothing that makes me want to try them (and I'd worry about the plastic clip on the D'Marzio and, as with the others, the lack of redundancy. An old friend just responded to my comment that I had no jazz box by insisting I accept a Washburn J5 on open-ended loan; my first question - "OK if I put Schallers on it?" I'm even thinking about breaking out the drill & putting a set on my classical (as I no longer have a lap in which to hold it.....) Peter (Did I ever mention I like Schallers?) | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 698 Registered: 12-2004 |
I've used the DiMarzio strap locks for 20 years and have never had one break or fail. | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 226 Registered: 7-2007 |
Thanks for all the comments. Can anyone make a case for NOT using them? A friend of mine has never used them and says that from time to time he just changes his strap to maintain the tight fit. Glynn | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2314 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm sure a luthier who needs the work could come up with a reason not to use strap locks.  With the strap locks I've never bought another strap after finding ones I like for an instrument. I still have my 70's Fret Sling that I use with my Jazz Bass and never had to worry about the hole opening up. Wish I could still get the Fret Sling. Oh well. Keith | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 175 Registered: 2-2010 |
Here's the earliest discussion about strap locks I could find, from 2004: http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/7411.html Another from 2005: http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/19188.html The most recent ongoing discussion: http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/210926.html?1446540789 Please understand that I'm only providing links to those threads in the interest of furthering the discussion, not as a comment on this thread itself. In other words; carry on. I've noticed that two solutions nobody has mentioned in any of those threads is bread bag clips. I've had them on my G&L since the 80s. Or you can pop a couple of bucks for the Joe Satriani signature ... um, bread bag clips (what else do you call 'em?): http://straptight.com/store/products/ Another approach that nobody has mentioned is using inserts/helicoils for the strap button screw. I've used threaded inserts (like every screw on an Alembic, except strap buttons), most often for bolting necks, especially Teles. We got them from Grainger's, but they only sell wholesale. Now you can buy WBS Neck Lock Systems (I love how everything is a "system" nowadays. In fact, I just got out of ... "Sleep system" and had a cup of coffee from our ... uh, "brewing system" ...)  Looks like that about covers the extremes: Joe Satriani signature bread bag clips (or the free version ) or threaded inserts, which provide their own issues, like the softness of the brass (you can also use stainless steel inserts, if you know where to look: http://tinyurl.com/qdhf567 ) Or slap a big washer on either side of your strap "tab" and bolt that baby on with a hex-head lag bolt, like Stanley Clarke: ------------------------------------------------------------------ From http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_dragonsbreath.html  "You're not imagining things, there are no strap pins or locks or holders of any sort on the bass. Stanley has always screwed his strap directly to the bass, and doesn't need any facility to remove the strap. A large woodscrew and washer do the trick, and are his "ultimate straplock." -------------------------------------------------------------------- JEFF Beck, Eric Clapton, Tony Levin, Duane Allman and countless other musicians bolt their straps directly to their guitars. The general rule of thumb is that if something has to be taken apart, use inserts (again, they're all over our Alembics), otherwise stick with wood screws. YMMV. I use Schallers, but I've noticed a problem that nobody else has mentioned: the tall "knob" on the straplock can get damaged or bent in a tight-fitting guitar case. That happened to my Jazz Bass, but I didn't do anything about it. The lock is still on there - bent - but it still works dandy. (Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on November 03, 2015) | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2010 |
>>> I'm sure a luthier who needs the work could come up with a reason not to use strap locks. <<< A strange conundrum exists wherein repairmen don't mind being called luthiers, but those hot-headed prone-to-violence luthiers DO NOT like for people to call repairmen that. It seems to make their back hairs bristle. I personally took part in that very topic with a bunch of drunken guitar geeks like Paul Reed Smith, Chris Martin and Seymour Duncan, at a really cool bar in Easton, PA during an ASIA symposium - which is mostly an excuse for guitar geeks to spend a week away from their wives, truth be told. My memory is hazy, but I think the general consensus was that luthiers and repairmen are only vaguely related, like sculptors and barbers. I've always thought that they're the exact opposite: a luthier displays their craft, we hide it. The best repairs are when you can't tell what was done. Period. That's a completely different set of skills and tools. I said all that to let you know that I agree with you. Strap locks suck. People shouldn't use them. And stands are for pussies. I ran across a post on a guitar forum from some Einstein who seemed proud of the fact that he never used guitar stands, because he didn't trust 'em. In the same post, they complained about the construction quality of the FOUR guitars whose headstocks had snapped off. - HE DIDNT GET THE CONNECTION. Let's blame it on Chinese factory workers. That's the ticket. Luthiers don't have to deal with people like that. Repairmen do, all the time. That's a different art entirely. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 177 Registered: 2-2010 |
This is how Epiphone deals with it:  | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1967 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, I see your point in re luthiers/repairmen, Forest - but I had the honor of knowing the late John Calhoun, who did repairs for the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago - I only know of one build he did, but I'll fight anyone who denies he was a luthier........ Man was a freakin' artist. And the first person I ever knew with a padded toilet seat. And the one who taught me the wonders of warm water in the bong. And, the first time I met him, pulled a NY Martin from under the couch and said "Here, try this!" But I have noticed our discussion has been slighting the acoustic side of things; for that, may I suggest Grölsch bottle-cap washers? Yeah, you can buy them Fender-branded at 4 for $4, but then you don't get the beer. Peter | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 8666 Registered: 6-2000 |
Don't you take the strap off when you put the instrument in its case? If not, maybe the woodscrew method would work best for you. Using threaded inserts in a place where you don't intend to make any adjustments or changes is kinda weird. But if someone just must attach their strap retaining system (see what I did there?) to their instrument with threaded inserts, please please please use Loctite. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 661 Registered: 6-2014 |
I know luthiers. I know repair guys. I know a couple that are both. I also know I am a hack, just slightly better than Cletus on a good day. LOL! You guys kill me... we HAVE to get together sometime. I'll bring the NY Martin... you guys are on your own with the Grolsh and the bong. =) I'll be the obtuse one... I like my Schaller Strap Locks. Never gave 'em a chance before the Alembic Club weighed in. I have a few guitar stands, but out on gigs I NEVER EVER leave my bass in one and walk further away than the next closest person to it. If I am leaving the immediate area, the Alembic goes in the case and gets latched in. It also drives me indiscriminately crazy when people leave an instrument plugged up and in a stand on a set break. I do have two stands in my practice room that always have an instrument in them, but I didn't even allow the cat in there, back when I had one of the sneaky little critters. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2010 |
>>> Don't you take the strap off when you put the instrument in its case? If not, maybe the woodscrew method would work best for you. Using threaded inserts in a place where you don't intend to make any adjustments or changes is kinda weird. But if someone just must attach their strap retaining system (see what I did there?) to their instrument with threaded inserts, please please please use Loctite. <<<< ------------------------------------------------------------ I always take the strap off NOW (because otherwise the little knob gets bent), that was just a lunkhead maneuver way back when, because it never occurred to me that there wasn't enough padding in the case to prevent it. (There aren't any "generic" Jazz bass cases, that I know of, because of the weird body shape.) Thus my cautionary tale. The whole thing with inserts came from my mentor, Doug MacCormack, from when he was Joe Perry's guitar tech. He has over a thousand guitars, and on his "road dogs" Doug put helicoils in everything because he liked to swap necks constantly, plus they kept a lot of spares handy. I haven't put inserts or helicoils in any strap button screws, nor do I plan on it. I just threw it out there because nobody had mentioned it, and because Alembic uses them for everything BUT strap buttons. (I just realized you might not use them for those little screws on the tuning machines, either). Big believer in Loctite, by the way. Unless it's for illicit purposes, such as squirting a little in some jerk's door lock or replacing someone's lubricants, as an oxymoronically-named "practical joke." | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 179 Registered: 2-2010 |
>>>I know luthiers. I know repair guys. I know a couple that are both. <<<< ------------------------------------------------- Do you agree that repairmen don't mind being called "luthiers," but luthiers object to people calling repairmen that? Every repairman I know of would probably go; "sure, I'm a luthier," but any guitar makers within earshot will sprint over to correct the misapprehension right away. Don't you watch the news? "Guitar maker plays 'El Kabong' with priceless guitar on hapless loudmouth, film at 11!" | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2007 |
This is a good response - thank you. I see we have top level involved and in answer to Mica I always take my strap off and stash it separately in the case. Do I understand correctly that Mica is saying leave the instrument alone and don't interfere with the factory strap button. Stay with what we are given? If so, that echoes my gut reaction. In fairness, nothing has gone wrong strap-wise in the 15 years since my Orion was built and bought (I don't leap around on stage or anywhere by the way). Glynn | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 228 Registered: 7-2007 |
Just remembered (cozmik cowboy) that a bass player I met this week in my local UK real ale pub said try Grölsch bottle-cap washers and drew many installation diagrams on a torn-up beer mat to describe. He set me a teasing task to try and find such bottles and invite him round to empty them. We are a weird bunch, aren't we? Glynn | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2315 Registered: 2-2005 |
To me Mica didn't make a statement either way but I don't think she needs to either. I think the fact that Alembic has been shipping their basses from at least 2004 with Schaller strap locks speaks to their stance on using them. Why do you think Schallers are going to interfere with the bass? All they are is a special strap button that accepts a U-shaped receptacle with a pin lock to keep it from coming off accidentally. The strap button will still work with any strap that doesn't have the other side of attachment. It only take one time for the strap to not stay on the button and you can damage your bass. I think the minimal cost for strap locks is worth reducing that risk to almost zero. Keith | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 229 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes- I take your point. Thanks. Glynn | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 8667 Registered: 6-2000 |
To strap lock or not is a personal decision. If you change out from a strap pin, do it wisely and fill the hole, drill a pilot hole and install the straplock. We put them on new builds because our customers expect them, but we certainly use pins, and other than Schaller straplocks on request. Custom! | ||
| peoplechipper
Senior Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 643 Registered: 2-2009 |
I take my worn picks and cut them with my jewelers saw like a bread tie; much stronger than a bread tie and will last for years, take seconds to make, recycle, and NEVER had a problem with a strap coming off...Tony. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 180 Registered: 2-2010 |
Tapastring ( http://www.tapastring.com/index.htm ) makes the best strap lock for acoustic guitars that I've ever seen.  I have a metal bodied Dobro, and it weighs at least 150 lbs. They're not kidding, that sucker ain't going anywhere. I've got them on all but one of my acoustics (the '57 Martin, because I point two matched AKG C-1000s at it. Mm-hmm.) While you're there, check out their "Vintage Jack," a beautifully crafted solution for vintage guitars (they also have them for mandolins, banjos etc.) http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm |
