| Author | Message | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4813 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi, yesterday I got a call out of the blue from the band leader of a band with musicians I used to work with for about 4 years but not gigged with them for about 8 years. Anyway during that time they started a tribute band and as it happens the reason for the call is that their guitarist has left to pursue a solo career and they need a guitarist to join them and they have a load of gigs to do in the new year up till August, the first two being 1st & 2nd January. I said yes initially more to help them out without thinking too much about it. I've been really up front and said my own band is my priority and will always override their gigs even pre-agreed ones and they are OK with that. The pay is ok but not as much as my own band pays. Now the crux, I've had the set list and the mp3's with the music and It has reminded me of how much I really not into the music the band are tributing. I have seen this band a few times in the past and they are good musicians, very professional, tight and put on a show that their audiences love and as a result have a great following but because the music they play is not my taste it's always been hard to embrace as a listener. Like most of you guys here, I've always been playing music because I enjoy what I'm playing but I'm not sure I can bypass the enjoyment and just do it for the money my mind won't allow it for too long. But at the moment I have the time to do it as being self employed in my day job I'm currently on a break from work for a while whilst I decide where my future lies. So whilst this will bring in a few pennies, I don't need this to pay my bills but it does give me an opportunity to play guitar which I have been missing badly for a number of years since playing predominantly bass these days. I'm not asking for advice on what to do, just curious if you have done gigs where you really are not into the music you are being asked to learn and play? And how much if at all does the money compensate for that and maybe how you found your own island of enjoyment in that situation. | ||
| jcdlc72
Senior Member Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 455 Registered: 11-2009 |
That has been the case for me several times. I've had to play music I'm not really into, even with musicians I don't share anything with, nor I would like to play with again. However, I decided to use the opportunity to learn and master on musical genres and situations I would have not run into in the first place. Had I kept my mind focused on what I dislike or am simply not comfortable with, I would have not achieved that little extra knowledge and skills such experiences gave me. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think it is a thing of accepting any thing that may come either, there are certain gigs I just wouldn't do nowadays, but I still engage every once in a while into "different forays" just to keep pushing on my musicianship... and my wallet doesn't complain for that, neither. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2454 Registered: 11-2004 |
I gave up trying to get into bands that like the same music as me because unless you get 4 or 5 people on the same wavelength as you it isn't going to happen. Also here in the North East of England for some reason everyone plays tired old rock numbers so you ain't going to get 'Birdland', 'School Days' or 'Birds of Fire' played in the local music pub ! So unfortunately I have become a 'musical prostitute', will play anything for the money as it funds my airline tickets to Dubai twice a year where my daughter and son in law live! Sad I know but now I am past caring about what I play. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2331 Registered: 2-2005 |
Like Terry much of what I played out was the same old classic/southern rock covers everyone played. While I liked some songs others I wasn't very fond of or downright hated. I looked at it as coming with the territory and saw the songs I didn't care for as the compromise for the material I did. My bigger concern were the other band members folks I could get along with and enjoy being around? Could I have fun at the venues they played? If both are yes then I can pretty much work around my feelings about the material. Keith | ||
| jimbryan
Junior Username: jimbryan Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2010 |
For me,it's not nessesarily the music that would make me turn down a gig,but the drummer.If you have a drummer that has chops and feel it can be a pleasure playing any genre of music.I recently turned down a gig(unusual for me!) because I knew the drummer was not up to the job.It would have been hard work and totally unsatisfying.However,if the gig had been worth a grand I might just have overlooked that issue!! Jim | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4644 Registered: 5-2009 |
(Double Post Correction) (Message edited by sonicus on December 14, 2015) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4645 Registered: 5-2009 |
When Being a " Musical Mercenary" or being a " Hired Gun " so to speak and having a musical skill set to emulate various other players in or out of context of their respective genre can be conducive to getting or keeping a musical job . I have done the such in certain circumstances and in particular when called upon to play Bass for Studio Recording Sessions. I have played on recording projects where I never met any of the other musicians and it was just a producer and engineer and my self present for the session. When the recording is done you might like what you hear but you also might feel quite dissatisfied with the mix and other audio processing in the final release. Multitrack recording can get impersonal like that if you think about at it from the angle of many minds making the music in the moment like what I love about JAZZ and Jam Band musical collaboration. That to me is what I love the most , interacting with the other players is the ultimate reward for my ears and mind from my perspective viewpoint. Wolf Bostedt | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 816 Registered: 9-2009 |
Because I do this as a hobby rather than as my profession, fun is the #1 criteria I use. And fun can had from playing the music you love, playing with a group of guys/gals about whom you really care and who care about you, or playing to learn new genres of music. On a couple of occasions I've joined projects focused on music I would never select to play myself and thought I wouldn't like at all. Progressing through the learning process, however, I developed a much greater appreciation of the style and found aspects of it (even if it was only subtle aspects of the bass lines) that I came to thoroughly enjoy thereby broadening my musical horizons. | ||
| stout71
Advanced Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 280 Registered: 7-2011 |
I've been in this situation many times. I played in a Jimmy Buffett tribute band years ago that played nothing but weddings and corporate events. The money was (usually) good, but the music was unsatisfying. I stuck with it until I found out the guy doing the booking was taking 50% off the top before splitting up the dregs between the other 3 guys. I made some good connections in that band and ultimately it was worth the BS I had to endure. But if I hear Cheeseburger in Paradise one more time, my ears will surely bleed. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3721 Registered: 10-2002 |
When I first moved up to Scotland I auditioned for a Slipknot tribute band. I went along not having really listened too much and when I arrived quickly realised that .. a). I hated the music and b). there was no way on god's earth I was going to wear a mask that made me look like one of the 'walking dead'. I always find the difficult bit is telling people I'm not interested after I've been along to the audition. Graeme | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 234 Registered: 7-2007 |
I was 66 last week and get my kicks whatever route I take (come on it is the pantomime season - oh no it isn't!) I don't think I have been selective about the type of music for a long time, to be honest. I just have to keep playing to keep reasonably supple in the fingers. The closest I got to what you are saying is some years ago when I joined a band after auditioning who played quite decent varied covers - the tunes were Summer of 69, Perfect, I'm just a teenage dirtbag, Mercy. They all had to be done exactly like the record for the female singer or she couldn't cope. I learnt all the stuff by writing out parts for myself. BUT - the two guitarists had massive tuning problems and when I eventually pointed it out they told me that I thought I was too good for them and told me to leave!! It took me 50 years to reach and maintain the standard I am at and I can't let that slide. So it was more about the ability of the others to play their instruments and stay in tune rather than material. I have tried to introduce electric bass into no-go areas like some types of folk and precision clogging and morris dancing. It has worked but plenty sniffing and funny looks before they heard it. ps. (Off topic -sorry) My DVD of the Jaco film still hasn't come and I had an email just from Iron Horse Entertainment to apologise as there is a 2 week delay in sending them out. Glynn | ||
| stephenr
Intermediate Member Username: stephenr Post Number: 150 Registered: 9-2014 |
Once I was invited to play with a band that did only their own material. They gave me tapes to learn the tunes but I noticed that I was trying to just quickly learn the notes without really listening because it wasn't really my thing. I had to bail. Almost every band I have played in has done some tunes that I would prefer to avoid but that kind of comes with the territory of being in a band. But if I don't like the music or like the music but the musicianship isn't there I have found I just can't play very well in those contexts. Never could be a jack-of-all trades player, it has to mean something to me and have some level of fulfillment. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2513 Registered: 9-2002 |
-If the band is truly tight and professional, even if it's not your cup of tea, can you put that out of your mind and match their level without it driving you nuts, or worse, pulling them down a little by your feelings? -The few real session pros I've known around town all had the instant ability to play utter crap on a cutting date and carry themselves as if they were playing with one of their heroes: They could play the date and compartmentalize their emotions, which I'm sure you've had to do. But since this is an 'only if I want to' instead of 'gotta have the money', can you enforce yourself to do it? -On the other hand, as always, playing stuff that's off the menu stretches you, and you never know who might hear you at one of those gigs. -J u s t S a y N o . . . . . and don't overthink it, if that's what your heart tells you. Joey | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Advanced Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 202 Registered: 2-2010 |
I'm primarily a string bassist, so it doesn't happen. Being one of four bassists in an orchestra is excellent training to be a pro. You're all playing the same notes at the same volume, because you're part of a section. It's like basic training in the function of bass, as taught by the great masters. I get a lot of calls for upright bass because in country, bluegrass, blues, trad-jazz and Rockabilly, bandleaders or producers prefer it. I approach each style entirely different, because it's all about the ensemble. I'm not pointing that out for ego's sake. Quite the opposite. (In fact, it would be a great way to hide from the authorities, if y'knowm sayin' here.) Self-taught players (especially guitarists, simply because it's not an orchestral instrument) usually aren't concerned about playing together in an ensemble. There's nothing wrong with that, it's simply a factor to take into consideration. Especially in regard to rehearsal, because conductors generally run through pieces from beginning to end without stopping, and you're supposed to note your "problem areas" and work them out on your own time. That's just vastly more efficient than the way most rock or other types of bands rehearse, which is to stop frequently to work out mistakes, so that it takes hours to get through a single tune. A forty piece orchestra can get through at least four pieces per hour (it usually sounds like a herd of cats set loose in a room full of rocking chairs, but getting 40 people to do anything together is a daunting proposition in any case). I estimate that probably around 80% of the music I'm called upon to play is not stuff that I prefer to listen to on my own. It doesn't matter. That doesn't mean I don't like it, per se, only that it doesn't matter. It's my job. Stanley Clarke said in an interview;
Personally, the best part is when people on here complain about other musicians, or accuse the soundman of "plotting" to mess with "their sound" that I am thrilled at never having experienced that. I'm not there to be the "star," the band is. I'm not there to be "the bass player," I'm there in service to the song, as part of the rhythm section. Again, It's not ego, it's exactly the opposite. I figure the ego should come from the respect of your peers, and that is in proportion to your respect for the music, period. By the way, since this thing seems to have turned into a novel anyway, I wanted to ask if it would be okay to print this picture up for my students as a demonstration on proper hand position:  Your thumb is cantilevered opposite your middle fingers, properly spaced in the "one finger per fret" position, relaxed, casual "curl," where you'll be able to play the rest of your life without your carpal tunnel looking like something that was gnawed by rodents... See what I mean? I can babble for a week, or just hand them this pic and go; "your hands should look like this." Of course, it doesn't hurt that you're the baddest cat around when it comes to playing the damn thing, if y'know what I'm saying.  | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1574 Registered: 6-2006 |
Jim Bryan brought up a great point about the drummer, which I agree with whole heartedly. However Jazzy mentioned he would be playing guitar, so maybe not that much weight in the equation. I also agree with others on the point of expanding yourself musically, it is challenging and exciting to go down a path that you aren't familiar with. . . unless it stops being fun. | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Advanced Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2010 |
If it weren't so damn expensive to get last-minute flights over there (my lovely bride, the Foghorn, is from Scotland, so we've gone through this before) I'd pay to hear that. Jimi Hendrix said that he considered that his "gift" was for rhythm guitar. And he was right. Jaco said the same thing about being a drummer. He was a professional drummer in Afro-Cuban bands before he broke his right hand (probably reinforcing his opinion, if you follow my drift) and switched to bass. I'd love to hear Jazzyvee play guitar, because of the bass he'll be able to draw upon. It'll be epic. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 969 Registered: 9-2004 |
As BigRedBass implied, at a certain level it is about the professionalism of the band and being a pro. This remark is in no way a put down of anyone fortunate enough who does not need to earn money from their playing If fun is one of the most important factors, or you are a gigging performer who is booked up, or you are in demand enough or even famous, than one can easily say no to playing music you might not like. I have joined bands I didn't like the style of at first, and ended up being in them for years and having a rewarding experience. I have also been in bands (very recently) that I liked the music and was making money but the band was run so unprofessionally that it turned out to be a nightmare and I won't play with them ever again, for love or money. For better or worse, bands are like families who almost never stay together anyway, at any level, from famous to totally unknown and unpaid. I think experienced players factor this in and decide if the money or the perks are worth the time and effort. | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Junior Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2012 |
I always try to find something I like even when playing material I'm not overly fond of. Case in point: I was playing bass for a recent project and they wanted to do "Sugar" by Maroon 5. Really not my cup of tea at all as it was originally recorded, but I worked with it until I could find a tone and groove that I liked. Then I locked in with the drummer and we created our own little funk groove that drove that tune a little harder than the recording and it became fun & interesting to play. The added benefit was it also became more danceable. Win/win all around. Sometimes you just gotta push the envelope a little bit and the material will reward you in unexpected ways. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4815 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks of your input guys. The band are all musicians I know well and so we have no personality issues and they are all good musicians so from that point of view it should be fine. The genre they are playing is also one I have been play before and I know it well. If it was a session gig then I'm cool and not really fussed about the genre as long as I can play it competently. But this isn't a session it's joining a band who's existence is geared to the music of one artiste whom I'm not keen on at all. I'm not sure how long I will be able to last but will give it a go with a professional mindset and aspire to an open mind about it. As for the picture Ed, I didn't even think about whether my hand position was correct. It's good to know I'm doing something right apart from buying decent basses. :-) If you really want to use that photo I'm cool with that and I may be able to find a larger resolution picture to send you. But please ensure the photographer name on the bottom is still visible to credit him. Oh and trust me, i'm not good enough on guitar or bass to warrant a trip over here to watch one of my gigs. :-) | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2413 Registered: 10-2003 |
This is the month I ween myself off of two gigs I'm not into. Great players in both bands, but not my thing at all. The difficult part has been resolving to walk away from the situations while we all still get along (I can go to a pretty dark place when I hate the music I'm playing for an extended period). I have made it clear to both bands that I need to focus on a single project and have left the doors open to future collaboration if either of them need a sub, but walking away from a couple of popular, working bands is still tough for me. One of the bands does "Sugar" and pretty much it has become a festival of funk. If every tune was able to get that treatment, I'd stay, but alas I don't ever want to play "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" ever again. ;) John | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1763 Registered: 2-2011 |
I played for 3 years in country bands & I hate country music! No offense to my boot scooting brothers & sisters here, but country bass is boring to me. I got into it when a band I was playing in was approached by a country singer to be her backup band. We were a great band that did stuff like Dream Theater & Extreme, but we didn't have a PA & pretty much spent all of our pay renting PA for every gig. The singer who hired us had a PA so that wasn't an issue with her. We still did some rock tunes with her but she sang them with twangy country sounding vocals which made me cringe. Thankfully no Alembics were harmed during this period, this was before I got my SCSD, so I played my Jazz Bass the whole time. Now I've come full circle, I play in a classic rock band & our singer is trying to get us to play some country too! I've resisted as long as I can but we may loose her if we don't give in & it took a very long time to find a suitable replacement for our former singer so I think resistance is futile! | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2007 |
No personal offence intended to anyone here or elsewhere but all the really great bass players say that they got where they are today by playing ALL styles of music that have been thrown at them. That is why they are in demand and have a massive amount of musical experience. People like Jaco played every hour he could with whoever he could. Just read the advice from greats like Jeff Berlin, Billy Sheehan, Lee Sklar, Stu Hamm, Dave Swift (Jools Holland) and others who figure regularly in Bass Guitar Magazine and they say the same. Neil Fairclough who plays bass for Queen recently said that his advice to young musicians is "study different styles even if you're never going to play them". Carol Kaye played for everyone and all different styles. I will never be as good as them but if that is their advice then wouldn't I be a bit arrogant to have ignored it?. As I said earlier, basic tuning and ability to play your instrument is where any musician must start or achieve but after that it is about having big ears to not be selective and also broad minded if you want to play out live. If you want to stay at home then you may think differently. (Was that too outspoken?) Glynn | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4817 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Glynn, no that wasn't outspoken at all. I can understand the advice given by those great players and if I was a young player or just starting out at a mature age then yeah I'd probably immerse myself in a lot of more stuff. I did that when I was younger and i've done dep gigs with a punk band, a country band and and more recently a rock and was a member of an Irish folk fusion band for about 18 months. It's all been part of learning from different genres and sometimes more experienced players than me. I think I play reasonably well and am not chasing guitar or bass greatness anymore, just trying to be a better musician than I currently am. I know my limitations and whilst I am going to give this a go I don't invisage it being a long term thing, life is too short to be doing things I don't enjoy for too long. One of the reasons I'm still playing whilst most of my friends who began when I did have stopped , is that I really love playing music whilst they were in it for money , fame, women etc and most of them have stopped playing decades ago. When that didn't happen for them. There is a reason my email address has notstrictlyjazz in it. :-) | ||
| murray
Advanced Member Username: murray Post Number: 236 Registered: 7-2007 |
Good points - I seemed to have missed out on the money, fame and women when I was playing for the Mecca organisation at Birmingham Locarno, Mayfair Suite and The Tower in the 1970s!! There was a very good (if slightly unhealthy) chip van outside the Top of The World Stafford where I was based for 5 years. Now that's what I call a good result! Take care. Glynn | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Junior Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2012 |
Without too much effort, "Sugar" can be transformed into a nice little "bass feast", but unfortunately the opposite is true of "Save a Horse". Although a real crowd favorite, that one is most certainly a "bass famine" of biblical proportions... ;-) Good call, John. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2414 Registered: 10-2003 |
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| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1985 Registered: 10-2006 |
Playing music you don't love for money? What can I say, except... Funk Brothers Wrecking Crew MGs Swampers Peter | ||
| terrace
Member Username: terrace Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2008 |
My first foray out of the basement in the mid seventies was with polka band which my older bassist brother told me to do.I hated it but made pretty good money , learned latin , polkas etc.which I've retained to this day.Always turn it into a learning session. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2415 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Playing music you don't love for money? What can I say, except... Funk Brothers Wrecking Crew MGs Swampers Peter" A couple of weeks ago I was visiting with a Nashville session guitarist friend of mine, JT Corenflos, and we were laughing about the ups and downs of the studio gig. The take-away was that guitarists make the comment behind his back that his parts usually aren't very difficult, when the actual challenge is to come up with something that works within a song you may be inclined to hate but have to learn to love while you're tracking it at 10 am on a Monday morning while you've got the flu. I think he's played on more than 130 number 1 songs at this point, so he kind of knows that of which he speaks. ;-) https://scarysharkface.smugmug.com/photos/i-hpsN6x5/0/XL/i-hpsN6x5-XL.jpg He was more than a little bit envious as we talked about how I mostly just play whatever the hell I want, and that I've got the freedom to turn down anything that doesn't sound like fun. He definitely wins the money game, but I'm pretty sure that it's spectacularly difficult to thoroughly enjoy anything that you do for a living. John | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2333 Registered: 2-2005 |
I still do a little bit of recording of backing tracks for local gospel groups at a friends studio. It is not a style of music I really care for but I enjoy being around the people so it isn't hard for me to want to do the best I can on their recording. In general the most complicated the bass part gets is the occasional walking line but for the most part it a basic root notes and time keeping. I actually find that challenging as it isn't easy sitting back when the neck has so many more notes that want to be played. I also appreciate a good rhythm guitar player more than I do someone who plays lead for the same reason and think it is why they are so rare. It takes a great deal of self control to stick to the basics and keep time that not many folks want to do it. Keith | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 971 Registered: 9-2004 |
My experience is that doing something professionally will always ruin some aspect of doing it for fun. However, missing a house payment is no fun either! |
