| Author | Message | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 472 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yo, upright arco players. I could really use some help. I can't seem to keep the bow rosined very well. A few years ago I got a new bow. I got a fairly good one with good hair on it. I bought good rosin for it too. The problem is I can't seem to keep the hair "rosiny" and "grabby". After about 1 song it starts to get slick and squeaky again, like when the hair was brand new. I have rosined it so many times I can't believe I haven't done it enough. I have even rubbed rosin on the strings where you bow them. Any ideas, anyone? Rich | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 568 Registered: 10-2003 |
Get either "salt and pepper" hair (50/50 black and white horse hair) or if you really like some grit go with all black. Black horse hair is much coarser than the white stuff. For years I used a bow done in "salt and pepper" and it totally ruled. My dynamic range was unbelieveable. Unfortunately, I can't even begin to recall which rosin I used, though it came in a round cylinder and was pretty soft stuff (and a bit $$$). John | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 473 Registered: 11-2004 |
John, thanks. My hair is all white. I could change the hair if I had to. Even the best hair isn't terribly expensive for 1 bow's worth. I worked with it some more this morning and got it to grab fairly well. I still rosin up every few minutes or so but I can kind of live with that for the time being. The rosin I have is cylindrical, too. It is in a cardboard tube. The rosin cake itself is surrounded by thin metal that you peel off about 1/8" at a time as you wear the rosin down. It is made by a German company called Pirastro and was priced on the higher end even though it didn't actually cost all that much. I bought the medium hardness. It is still so much softer than the violin rosin that I have. One thing I noticed is I get much better contact when I bow from tip to frog than in the other direction. Could the hair be grabbier in one direction or is it more likely my technique? It seems to work better in the one direction no matter where on the bow I start. I have started at different parts of the bow to try to eliminate uneven rosining as a factor. What do you think? Rich | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 221 Registered: 1-2004 |
Pirastro makes really nice rosin, I always used it on my cello bow. Anyways, what kind of strings are you using? I had trouble getting the strings on my upright to speak for years and when I changed to a different brand of strings it made all the difference. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 571 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think Pirastro sounds familiar, though Thomastik also comes to mind, and mine was in the soft metal that you had to peel back as you describe. Perhaps I used Thomastik strings (likely). I used the *soft* stuff when I could find it, and it was only about a step-and-a-half removed from fresh tree sap. I don't know if hair is directional or not, though it certainly sounds reasonable. Keep in mind that when it's truly connecting with the string as it should your bow will slow down considerably, especially as you near the bridge. I see a lot of players simply try to move the bow faster for volume, when that's really almost the opposite of what's needed (in addition to playing closer to the bridge). I haven't played arco much in years, so this is a good exercise for my brain. John | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 475 Registered: 11-2004 |
John and Karl, thanks for the responses. As far as strings go, I have D'Addario Helicore on it. I got the orchestral ones, made mainly for arco. I really don't want to experiment with strings. I play electric mainly and just sideline a bit on upright. Also, it's expensive enough to experiment with electric strings. IIRC the Helicores were $100-110 or so. I can't do that too often. I'll assume that my difficulty is based in my technique. I bow about an inch below the end of the fretboard. It gets the rich lows that I like and seems to be easier to get a good connection than nearer the bridge. To play louder I just lean a little harder on the bow rather than bow faster. I'm not sure if all this is right but that's how I've been doing it. I'm certainly open to being corrected. Rich | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 222 Registered: 1-2004 |
Good bowing technique takes years to develop, so one thing you want to think about is to spend a few minutes playing arco every day. Every instrument is different but it sounds like you may be bowing a bit too far from the bridge. You should try to play halfway between bridge and fingerboard, at least that's what I was taught on cello and violin. And one last thing, you asked putting rosin on the strings. You actually want the strings to be clean for best response. So something that might help is to wipe the rosin off the strings with a piece of cloth after each time you play. And you are correct about the pressure of the bow. You can play ff with the bow moving slowly or pp with the bow moving fast. The speed of the bow has more to do with the timber or quality of the sound than the loudness. (Message edited by son_of_magni on November 19, 2005) | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 477 Registered: 11-2004 |
How taut should the hair be? I played with the tension a little bit. I normally have it pretty taut. It has worked alright. I loosened it some and it seemed to grab a little better and made it less likely to squeak. Whaddaya think? Rich | ||
| bigbass
Member Username: bigbass Post Number: 79 Registered: 6-2002 |
As a Broadway player, former college professor and current part-time public school teacher of strings, I can think of four possibilities for the problems you speak of. It is possible that you are not holding down the string with your left hand tightly enough to facillatate a firm string divot. Thus, you may think it is the bow, but rather it is not a solid string to fingerboard connection. Next, I would consider that if you haven't re-haired your bow in over two years, you should do so. Bow hair has a specific life, especially if you don't loosen it after you use it. The ablity for the bow hair to hold rosin and do the correct "bow thing" diminishes over time. I re-hair my bow every nine months to a year. Some of my violin friends laugh at me. The have to re-hair every three to four months. They can hear the difference. It all depends on how much you use your bow and the quality of hair used. I am also wondering if you bought your bow used as it could have had some miles already on the hair. I would consider trying a different rosin. Most pros I know use Carlson or some similar high end brand. They don't switch back and forth between rosins once they find one they like. They get used to the rosin pull and that becomes part of their technique. I personally never liked Pirastro. It never grabbed right with my technique. Lastly, your strings could be "shot". Helicore makes a few different kinds of bass strings. If you have on their Pizzicato strings, you will have problems bowing if they are a little old. I have one of my basses set up with their "Hybrid" sets and I like it very much. I hope this info helps your bowing issue. David | ||
| bigbass
Member Username: bigbass Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2002 |
An after thought: You could clean your bow hair with alcohol and a cotton wad. If you have some finger grease (looks like a dark area on the hair) it could prevent the rosin from adhearing. Make sure you don't get any on the bass or bow stick if the bow isn't made of pernambuco. Let the bow hair dry before re-rosining it. David | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 483 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks, guys. First, I am having better luck by bowing halfway between the fingerboard and the bridge. My left hand technique is okay. I get good sustain when playing pizz. My bow (decent pernambuco stick with new hair) was new when I got it. It has about 20 hours on it. I am getting pretty good contact lately. I rosin up more regularly than I should have to, I suppose, but it's working pretty well. I can live with it until it doesn't need it quite as often. Thanks, again. Rich |
