| Author | Message | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 923 Registered: 7-2004 |
I was wondering if anyone around here has any experience with the relatively new Bose Cylindrical Radiator P.A.S. (Personal Amplification System)? Whaddaya think of it? Bill, tgo | ||
| zuperdog
Junior Username: zuperdog Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2005 |
Depends on what you're trying to do with it, I suppose. Honestly, I wasn't terribly impressed considering the price. I still think a quality PA is the way to go. Try one out. You may like it. Cheers, Rob | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 924 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm interested in three different uses. First as a FOH system, replacing mains, subs, amps, everything except the mixer; Second, all of the above, but moving it behind the band and having it serve as monitor also, sort of like mini Wall of Sound; Third, all of the above PLUS replacing the back line - guitars, vocals, everthing into the Bose. Anyone whose tried any or all of these, lay it on me! Bill, tgo | ||
| jlpicard
Advanced Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 332 Registered: 7-2002 |
I like them for everything except bass!? My basses just don't sound natural through the system. Best way I can describe it: like playing through a P.A. system and not a bass amp which is in reality what you're doing. Too clean /flat response. From what I understand you have to use some kind of amp modeling unit like a Bass Pod to get an amp sound out of it. Don't know, the jury's still out on this one. | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 285 Registered: 5-2004 |
Bill I use to play with a keyboard player who had one and it was not very good between the sound and distortion it just didn't seem to keep up or come anywhere close to the way his Mackie system sounded. He had the sub as well or maybe even two it has been a while. He ended up taking it back because no one he played with seemed to like it. Anyway, Guitar Center let him use it on trial for 30 days. I don't know if that was a special arrangement or not but he was glad he had the opportunity to return it. To be honest it sounded like overpriced crap! If you own one or plan on purchasing one please understand that the before mentioned statement is just my opinion and is not to be taken in a personal manner! I would see if you can get the same kind of trial period for yourself and see how it works for you it could be he just didn't know how to set the thing up that way you could no for sure by at least placing it in a live situation to see if it truly works for you. I could put you in touch with the keyboard player if you like he is local to us he is in Berkely. Rory | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 604 Registered: 9-2002 |
From everything I've read and heard, it may be the ticket for a particular type stage with particular music: Small and acoustic, (songwriters, bluegrass, small acoustic jazz), maybe. BOSE always seems to be like the race team that reads the same rulebook everyone else reads, yet comes up with quite novel interpretations under the hood. I am surprised they don't push it for big church installs with choirs and praise bands. Maybe that tells me something right there. I don't see ANY way this could replace the typical PA for most uses: Not enough db for most rowdy clubs, difficult bass presentation, and the players would have to exhibit a level of selflessness usually not seen as regards their individual volumes. But . . . I own a BOSE Acoustic Wave and it floors me, and I really DON'T want to like transmission line bass. J o e y | ||
| jet_powers
Advanced Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 252 Registered: 2-2003 |
I spent almost 12 years working for Bose (not in engineering)and the one thing I can say about them is that they certainly do their research before bringing a product to market. However... The impression I have of the unit is that every member of the band has to buy into the concept and each has to have their own unit. If that could happen then certainly it would cut down on setup time at gigs. I think also that the system would best serve a relatively "quiet" band. If you're doing a Metallica tribute it might not be right for the application. Myself, I can't picture giving up my 612 cab anymore than I picture the guitarist I play with giving up his Marshall half stack. I do like the idea of not breaking my back or other important parts moving the gear about. JP | ||
| jlpicard
Advanced Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 339 Registered: 7-2002 |
Joey, Don't write off transmission line cabinets as a rule. Euphonic Audio uses transmission line designs in their cabinets and they are highly respected and sought after for their amazing output /size ratio and their uncolored natural sound. Players who own them (myself included) are seldom willing to part with them. As for the Bose PAS, (Piece-A-S**t)some would say, but I think that, 1. Each musician really needs to have his own tower. 2. your missing the point here guys, and that is to let the audience and performers hear with more clarity WITHOUT having to blast them and the musicians into the nearest hearing aid store and, MOST importantly, 3. To give the musician total control over his/her sound! No more worrying if the sound guy is F***ing up your tone or not paying attention at all. We all didn't buy Alembics so they could end up sounding like Hofners (no offense Macca) by the time they come out of the P.A. However, this approach implies a little disipline and cooperation between band members (check your ego at the door) because the mix is now entirely up to you. However, the clarity and sound dispertion characteristics that the system supposedly has should make it so you don't have to get into "volume wars" to hear yourself or each other properly. Go to the Bose message board and see what others are saying about the system. It may or may not be for you . Like I said earlier , I doesn't really cut it as a bass amp for me but you decide. I like the concept though. Personaly, I'm waitng for a second generation to come out after Bose gets enough feedback from users. They've already made one sofware upgrade based on owner recomendations so they are reponsive to the players needs. By the way, Bose, (not Guitar Center) grants everyone an unconditional 45 day trial period. If you hate it, send it back. Full refund. No questions asked! (Message edited by jlpicard on January 29, 2006) | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 644 Registered: 10-2003 |
I play in a blues band that uses 2 Bose PAS systems for vocals only. They sound wonderful and negate the need for a separate monitor system. I think running guitars, keyboards and/or bass through them at any kind of volume would be asking too much, as they simply don't move enough air. For the blues band thing, though, with vocals only they are great. I wish that the rock band I play in had a couple of them for pure simplicity, instead of the monstrosity we currently use. Since we run sound from the stage and play small bars, running instruments through a big PA often only makes us too loud. John | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 926 Registered: 7-2004 |
John: Are you going through a mixer first or plugging the vocal mikes directly into the Bose systems? Where do you place the towers? Any feedback issues? Are you doing any sound reinforcement of the back line? Bill, tgo | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 321 Registered: 2-2005 |
I've looked over the website and these do look interesting. A lot of the FAQ and other information does appear geared to acoustic instruments and low to moderate volumes. They do list recommendations for acoustic and electric basses/guitars and drums. Essentially you need to buy bass modules in addition to the towers. For guitar and acoustic bass they recommend 2 and are driven by the internal amplifier. For electric bass and/or drums they recommend anywhere from 4 to 8 bass modules. Any modules over 2 require external amps with a recommended rating of 250 watts. This looks like it could get pricy for an electric band with just as much setup as a traditional PA. All in all I would consider this for acoustic intruments, vocals and dinner/dance band (electric instruments and vocals). For anything high energy or volume I would probably limit it to vocals only or to onstage monitoring. Bill, Bose says you need to divide the stage into sectors that represent each instrument or singer. Each section would then have it's own tower. There is a sample picture that shows the towers randomly placed on the stage roughly behind each musician. The idea is to make the sound source appear to be coming from the muscian themselves and not the stage as a whole. The FAQ does say that you can still have feedback issues but the are reduced compared traditional PA's. There is quite a bit of info on the Bose web site. I forgot to mention that Bose does provide system design assistance. All you need to do is contact them with type of music, instrument info, number of vocalists, etc. As near as I can tell this part is all free. Keith (Message edited by keith_h on January 30, 2006) | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 645 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bill, We've tried both direct and through a mixer. Direct works far better in our setup. We've placed the towers behind us at the corners, in front at the corners and even in front of the drums directly behind the singers and it all works well. I'm amazed at how difficult it is to make these things feedback. They have very even coverage across a stage, too. We don't put any of the backline through them, other than occasionally keyboards, and we have one sub-woofer. I would imagine a guitar through it would be okay, but then I think they might start to sound a bit crowded for vocal monitoring. The problems we experience running our mics through a mixer first are all related to having the mixer run by someone with little experience with sound-reinforcement, poor eyesight and your typical small bar dark stage. It's hard for him to resist tweaking the EQ (who CAN?), even though the Bose is already quite appropriately EQ'd. Truth be told, our board is so small that none of us can read any of the controls well enough to be running the thing from the stage, but I digress. Any tweaking just makes it sound bad, and the line inputs are easily overdriven. We have three vocalists sometimes, so we either mix it before sending it off into Boseland or give someone their own personal PA system. Hope this helps. John | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 608 Registered: 9-2002 |
JLP I will agree that the Euphonics were amazing little boxes, but why did they change course? Those transmission line boxes are long gone, replaced by front-loaded cabinets like everybody else makes, but with WHIZZER cones? I seem to remember this all started after they made great announcements on their website about hiring their new sales manager, and you can find no mention of the Oriental guy that designed all of their cool stuff. J o e y | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 931 Registered: 7-2004 |
John: How do you "mix it before sending it off to Boseland" without using a mixer? We have 3 vocalists and I don't think we're ready to sink enough $ into three towers. Bill, tgo | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 647 Registered: 10-2003 |
Joey, As is the case with most things, I bet it has everything to do with manufacturing costs. Power is cheap, and (within reason) you can pretty much EQ-in whatever you need (given that most people simply can't tell the difference between loud and clean vs. loud and crap). The Transmission Line boxes have likely gone the way of the Voice of the Theater cabinets...  Getting any closer to that KLR yet? A buddy and I are planning a ride to Newfoundland this July/August on ours... It occurs to me that I could probably haul an entire Bose PAS on it without much difficulty at all. Wouldn't that be something.. John | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 648 Registered: 10-2003 |
Bill, Our guitarist has one of those ubiquitous cheap Behringer mixers with built-in FX and graphic EQ. It always sounds bad when we use it, but he insists anyway for the flexibility it provides. The mics he uses are dissimilar and very, very cheap, which obviously doesn't help, especially since they sound completely different and need EQ. The Bose has presets for different mics, but we can't use that when we use the mixer because we're feeding it one mixed signal (talk about mixed signals!). He's got a Carr amp and several expensive guitars (which he literally tosses into his guitar stand!), but doesn't really understand the concepts of "garbage in = garbage out" or "weakest link" as they relate to an audio signal, exemplified by the fact that he uses only the cheapest cables to connect everything (guitars, amps and PA) and they're always failing (he yanks on them, wads them up in a ball and trips over them regularly). Oi. Sorry about the rant... If you use a small mixer, matched mics, good cables, watch your levels and leave all the EQ-ing to the Bose system, you'll probably get excellent results. It's an amazing little system. John | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1686 Registered: 9-2003 |
I will admit that the Bose "promise" does seem tempting: easy to carry and set-up with no monitors. The price, however, is ridiculous. I also do not believe it can handle vocals AND all the instruments WITHOUT primary amplification. I'm sure it's good for acoustic music and jazz or just vocals in a small room, but that's about it IMHO. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 650 Registered: 10-2003 |
Kevin, My brain tells me to agree with you, because we've not run the instruments through the 2 of them. Having said that, 1 of them with vocals will easily compete with my 2 410 cabinets and 500 watts of bass cranked up, drums, keyboards and a very loud guitar. I would really recommend Bill finding one or two to borrow for an evening to test, or locate a band that's using them and give it a listen. People are AMAZED that they are all we're using for a PA system. The price is ridiculous, except that you don't need to spend a dime on a monitor system and they don't feedback. While I would like to hear an upright bass through it, I sure as heck couldn't afford one. John | ||
| jlpicard
Advanced Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 340 Registered: 7-2002 |
joey, I agree. It's a pity they don't make thoseoriginal boxes anymore. I personally feel that the new stuff Vented box, coax drivers) don'tsound as good or uncolored. | ||
| edwin
Intermediate Member Username: edwin Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2002 |
From what the EA site says, 2 out of 5 cabs are transmission line. Seems like you can still get that sound if you want it. I have a couple of the CXL12s, which sound very nice indeed. I usually use one along with an Acme B2. Edwin | ||
| yggdrasil
Member Username: yggdrasil Post Number: 97 Registered: 5-2002 |
My read of the EA site is that all their speakers are transmission line (?): "Every EA speaker cabinet and amplifier features the absolute finest components from the best suppliers:* Transmission Line design (snip)" from: http://www.euphonicaudio.com/2005/products.htm "and you can find no mention of the Oriental guy that designed all of their cool stuff. " I had an email from John Dong last Sept. - he was still there then. And he's still grinning on this page: http://www.euphonicaudio.com/2005/eafamily/company.htm Frank (Aguilar DB359 through EA CXL-112) | ||
| jlpicard
Advanced Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 342 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have A-B'ed them and still prefer the old ones. Not that the new ones sound bad, just a personal preference. |
