| Author | Message | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 653 Registered: 9-2002 |
I just bought a new bass, a 1982 Yamaha BB5000A. Since so many of us buy used axes from time to time, thought I'd walk you through my process, maybe save you some problems somewhere down the road. EBay purchase, with a qualification. Seller lived in Knoxville, and agreed to my stipulation to meet in person and change money/bass face to face. Buy-It-Now (I did) and had a 100% satisfaction over 50+ deals. Went for it. Agreed to meet in Harriman, TN, about 120 miles from me, no big deal. Bought-it-now for $500 w/gig bag (damn, no original brown case w/green fur, oh well . .) Drop dead mint would be reasonable for $700-800, this was supposed to be 8.5 out of 10. So I felt I was OK. Drove and met the guy on time, easy trip (all interstate, gorgeous day). Come to find out he's an old Yamaha nut like me, and a player himself (Demeter/Stewart/Acme rig) so his description was accurate. I sighted the neck (no twist, too much relief), checked the bridge (too high) and checked the nut and frets (fine). Needed TLC as far as detailing and action, but was clean cosmetically. Neck felt good, weight was fine. New gig bag. Of course I took for granted the electronics were OK . . . more about this later. Was tickled to find it, this completed 'the Trio'. Yamaha made the original BB5000 in the mid80s, probably the first production 5 string (along with Peavey's DynaBass) that those of us who WEREN'T Jimmie Johnson could find (this is way before I ever thought I'd own an ALEMBIC) out in the rest of America. The neckthru Yamahas were as close as I could get to ALEMBICs in East Texas! They were Fender shaped neckthrus, passive P(3/2) & J pickups, gold and brass hardware, MOP oval inlays (wonder where they got THAT idea?), striped ebony fingerboards, in that aged 'TV White'. Fives were a new thing then, so it was basically their four string neckthru (BB3000) with five string hardware, same width neck. In the late 80s this bass was upgraded to active electronics/pickups still in the same bass, the 'A' model in this purchase. There was a follow-on BB5000AII in the early 90s, the third memeber of the trio: Modified body shape, WIDE neck (after all the crybabies moaned and moaned about the narrow neck) and the new P/J active setup carried over later in the 4 and 5-string TRBs, as well as this neck width. I had the 5000 and the 5000AII and this A model would complete the trio, so I went for it as the middle version is REAL rare. Got it home, stripped off the old strings (Markley Will Lee Fives, OK except I don't like taper core strings) and got to work. The brass pickup rings were starting to turn beneath the clearcoat. Removed them, sanded them down with 1000 grit, followed with 0000 steel wool, followed by a thin coat of VO5 to maintain the shine. If they start to turn real quickly, I'll repeat the cleaning but shoot a thin layer of aerosol clear poly to seal them. While I had the rings off, I pulled the pickups out (wood screws), cleaned them, and rubbed a thin film of BreakFree across the plastic to get a shine, and a dab of BreakFree on the screw heads to make them nice and black again. The foam under them was fine and not dried and flaking. The gold bridge was just dull looking, as were the gold keys. Meguiar's Gold Class liquid wax is great for pulling those old fingerprints, etc., out of plated parts, and one of the few things you can polish gold parts with, if you use just a little and don't work it hard. Lubed the length screws and the saddle height screws with BreakFree (just a LITTLE). Vo5'd the clean parts to maintain the shine. Then I taped off the fingerboard leaving only the frets exposed, using the 3M Easy Release blue tape you can get a Lowe's. The frets were in good shape, just dull and need of a good cleaning. Buffed them down with a 600 grit sanding sponge, went back over them with 0000 steel wool, they looked and felt great. Stripped off the tape, then steelwooled the fingerboard. Vacuumed up all the steel wool fuzzies, and put down a layer of lemon oil and let it sit for 45 minutes. Not surprisingly, it drank up virtually all of it, not uncommon for a 20 year old bass. And the frets were all seated properly. I then waxed the whole bass with Meguiar's, and it looked great. So I was through detailing. I restrung with the old strings as I just wanted to have the tension reapplied to the neck to address the bow I'd seen. The seller had told me 'it was as low as it'll go, you'll see'. Well, I knew this was wrong as their was easily enough bow to put a nickel between the strings and the frets in the middle of the neck, and the saddles were jacked WAY up. The truss rod was TIGHT. Not making that popping sound but I figured it was close to that. I detuned to almost loose, put a drop of BreakFree on the truss rod nut and tightened it up about half a turn. A lot of times you can get more compression against loose strings, then tune back up to pitch, but you really have to feel your way through this like defusing a bomb: Too much, and you're looking at a new truss rod installation, expensive and major surgery I sure did not want to face. This got me in the neighborhood. The bridge saddle heights were straight line. A rule layed across the strings touched all five, so I set the height of each string over the last fret at a little under 1/8", this made them match the radius of the fingerboard. Not their final setup, but another step along the way. By now I'm looking at about 1/16" relief in the middle of the neck, so it's coming my way. The intonation was close, but I'd wait for new strings (GHS Boomers 45-130) to complete the final last fractions of an inch setup and intonation, and of course OLD strings will never intonate perfectly, so why bother now? Now I'll let this sit in tune for a day or two to let the neck finish moving. The pickups were straight across as well (consistently wrong logic, eh?) so I settled them at 1/4" clearance (unfretted) on the two halves of the P pickup and 3/16" for the J, again these being generic settings for beginning my final setup/listening tests. Once my regular strings are installed, I'll finalize the relief, last fret height, bridge saddle heights. Then I can do my final pickup height adjustments by ear for tone and blend. About the electronics . . . this is why you always buy cheap! The seller advised I'd probably need a new 9 volt (I'd have done this anyway). When I opened the battery chamber, the snap connector had corroded to the battery, and had to be cut loose. I had a spare connector and just snapped the bare wires to the terminal so I could hear this thing. THEN the jack felt funny, and after a day or two it just died. Oh well. . . so I took it down to Classic Axe, my preferred repair shop down in Music Row, and Greg worked his magic: New connector and battery holder, replacement jack installed, $72. So now I'm in it for $572, but still cheap for what looks and sounds like a virtually mint, early 80s Yamaha bass. Even Greg remarked how clean it looked. Brought it home from Classic Axe today. Next day or two I'll reString with the Boomers, and finalize the setup, the neck hasn't moved at all in six days. So that tells me this is a real stable neck (maple/mahogany stripes, ebony fingerboard) and the two of us should get along great! These TV White Yamahas are sentimental to me, even more so as my wife bought all three for me, my biggest fan. I'm no collector, I'll play these from time to time to keep them exercised. And I always hear something new playing the same song on a different axe. But of course all three are backup quarterbacks to my ALEMBIC. I really prefer to 'handle the merchandise', ESPECIALLY when buying used, because the wheels are turning as to what I'm going to need to do to get it 'just right' after I bring it home. And I certainly don't want to buy a problem child. I try to study the current values and buy right, or steal it if I can. And my tastes run outside the 'Vintage Market' so I skip all of that pricing, fortunately. J o e y | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 750 Registered: 12-2002 |
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!............... | ||
| pinchdawg
Junior Username: pinchdawg Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2005 |
WOW...............sounds like someone knows what he's talking about. Can you say luthier. Great job Joey. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 34 Registered: 2-2006 |
I've never owned a Yamaha, but living in east Texas myself a very nice but not well known neck thru bass, built in Japan but USA based in Waco Tx I believe was a company named DAION. I;m not sure how old you are but these were sold in the 80's and didn't last long, copyright mumbo jumbo or something killed them. I have 2 that I bought last year but played one for about 10 years in, right up till I got my first Kubicki. Anyway those all held over until I got my ALEMBIC. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3396 Registered: 5-2002 |
Daion's have been mentioned several times in the club. Here is an interesting thread. | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2006 |
I bought that Red bass shown in the thread. I have a Natural one too. I als have my mom's Daion Gazelle acoustic. These really are well made instruments. Here are my two.  | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 654 Registered: 9-2002 |
One day I will have one of those Daion Power XX's. 86 the stock electronics and drop in something suitable. Killer woodworking, and the saucer bevel body edges are just too cool for school. It's never lost on me that the Japanese really pushed bass development in the late 70s and 80s, a time frame AFTER Fender's big-bang birth of the electric bass and preceding the explosion of the scores of boutique bass builders in the 90s. And it's also obvious that the advent of ALEMBIC was a real milestone in their minds. And the appearance of the basses in the time following ALEMBIC's rise to prominence is no accident. The original Ibanez Musician basses, the SB series Arias, the Daion, and the Yamaha BBs in their neck thru versions were the hot tickets in those days. and all obviously ALEMBIC-inspired. Cool West Coast guys had gray market BB2000s, the first PJ production basses I ever saw. Sting played Musicians, John Taylor flashed his SB1000s all over Duran videos, and Nathan East was every where with his white BB5000. Not to diminish Steinbergers, Spectors, and Pedullas. These American basses, plus the Japanese, and of course ALEMBIC, coupled with bassists much larger attitude towards trying new things helped to push the bass much further in evolution than electric guitars. Guitarists seem to STILL be looking for that perfect tube amp and a wiggle stick that won't go out of tune, same as they were in the 50s. Go figure! On the other hand, I'm really wore out to seeing one more Fender/SVT setup EVERY time I turn on the TV!! J o e y | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2006 |
I've never really been a fan of Japanese basses but these are one of the few. The only other Japanese bass I own is an early 80's Studio 8 string. Here is a photo of it and my trusty old 79 MM Sabre. One of only two basses I've ever bought New.  | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2320 Registered: 9-2002 |
My good friend and brother Joey, as you already know we share a lot and the love for Yamaha's too. Though I am a huge fan of the first production run of the TRB P6 and TRB P5 it was you that made me look for these BB5000A's. About two weeks ago an mint black was offered on a Dutch 2nd hand guitar market site in Holland. Not cheapo: about 1800$ inclusive an HH B100 bass amp. I am not into buying anything now but well ...you have "awaken" my intrests in those basses too! Paul TBO PS: by the way ...I think you got yourself here a "to print" thread again! | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2321 Registered: 9-2002 |
Oh ...and about Daion! You will not believe this but I met my first Daion on the same moment I met my first Alembic: in a Guitar Player ad! I kept that small balck and white ad of Alembic for YEARS in my wallet (I would still have it but the wallet was stolen froim me in the Lisboan tramway). About Daion: in that that Guitarplayer was also a Daion ad! You saw a very nice picture of a long haired fairy lady sitting on a pebble beach playing a small bodied dark brown beautiful acoustic guitar. The base line was: "love at your first Cmaj7". I fell in love!!!! With the guitar Bob, the GUITAR! REALLY ...the guitar!!!!!! Paul the bad one PS: I played my portion of Alembics and I am the happy owner of Bonnie but I never layed my hands on a Daion. Never ever saw one in person. Nonono Bob ...neither on the girl! (Message edited by palembic on March 07, 2006) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1063 Registered: 7-2004 |
Olie; Another Daion person! I own six of 'em (all guitars). Two Power Mark XXs, (one of which has a Rosewood core! It can be found here): http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/20131.html?1125055834 I also own a Power Mark X, an H-555 Headhunter (amazing 335 type) and two Caribous (acoustics). Daions were extremely well crafted instruments. I brought the one in the pictures up to Alembic. Susan said to make something similar would cost me at least $3000 just for the woodwork! IMHO, Daion did by far the best job of a production line "hippie sandwich" style guitar, as invented by Alembic. I also love the pickups and electronic set up in my Power Mark XX. The split coil feature is the most usable I've ever encountered. Bill, tgo | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1064 Registered: 7-2004 |
Paul: Is this her?:  Bill, tgo | ||
| olieoliver
Junior Username: olieoliver Post Number: 41 Registered: 2-2006 |
I agree they are very good instruments. My Gazelle acoustic is my main acoustic that I play. It has a great sound through the PA so the electronics must be pretty good. The natural Bass I have I just purchased a few months ago but was to replace the one I had sold a few years before that I got in the mid 80's. I tried to buy a 6 string on ebay a few weeks ago for my daughter but got out bid. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2322 Registered: 9-2002 |
***drooooo-ool**** | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 988 Registered: 11-2003 |
Joey I know I'm not the first to ask this but how about a picture or two of the Big Red Bass. I'd like to see the Yamahas also. Sam | ||
| gtrguy
Junior Username: gtrguy Post Number: 46 Registered: 9-2004 |
I love Yamaha TRB basses! (and Alembics) I have a TRB-6P converted to fretless, a TRB-4P, a MIJ TRB-4II, and a made in Korea TRB-1005. The 'P' series neck thrus are the best. Some TRB's eat batteries and some don't. They sound very good with higher end SWR amps. Dave | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1078 Registered: 7-2004 |
Joey: WIth your post in mind, I asked my wife last night if she had any VO5. She looked at me like I was crazy and asked why. When I told her to help brass retain it's shine, she looked at me like I was even crazier. I told her about your post and she wondered how you ever came up with this idea. I told her I'd ask you. So consider this asking. And, as long as I'm on the subject, how about some directions about it's use. I assume it really works or you wouldn't be using it. Bill, tgo | ||
| tbrannon
Junior Username: tbrannon Post Number: 48 Registered: 11-2004 |
All I have is a coffee cup, but I am currently banging it on the table~ Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! BTW: Thanks for going through your setup run procedure. It's something we all do, but explaining the rationale behind your setup procedure helped me to find several flaws in my own. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 658 Registered: 9-2002 |
LBP I'll only admit to being smart enough to read 'Hints from Heloise' (REALLY) in the paper, where she recommended it for AFTER you polish your silver goods you only drag out for the holidays. And she advised it worked for gold-plate or brass as well. I ALWAYS get my smartest ideas from women . . . all of us married guys KNOW that! Of course the Meguiar's was a no-brainer because virtually every guitar made in Cali is painted in automotive paint, basically. So when you read the Fender catalog that this or that model has a 'genuine lacquer finish' it's a dead giveaway that it's from Mexico or Fender Japan. Fender's recent run of care products are ALL Meguiar's, but they were hardly the first to think of it. Or for you other cats, Mother's is just fine as well. The BreakFree CLP is one of these space-age wonder lubes I've used on my guns for years. It's mil-spec, standard issue with Uncle Sam. A light coat of these and all of those little screws on your axes will stay usable and clean for a long time. And it's inert to finishes and electronics, a VERY important consideration. THIS is the stuff that will never let your Floyd Rose rust even if you sweat like a pig and empty a Foster's can over it. I've always harped on setup, but it needs to be said, the BEST setup is what works for you. No two basses adjust identically, nor would two players rarely use identical setups. My whole idea is to quantify how you do it, to take the process and make it work for you, so you're NEVER at the mercy of anyone else to get your axe EXACTLY like YOU want it. Change to differnt strings and the feel changes? No problem. Different weather/time of the year/AC/heat/humidity? A tweak here and there, BOOM!, you're right back. All because the Wickershams made these things so ridiculously, ingeniously easy to adjust. I really think people DON'T do more of this as it's such a pain to unbolt a neck several times, file or replace a nut, etc. On an ALEMBIC, with the adjustable nut, the twin truss rods, the whole bridge on two screws, the laminate neck with a big ebony board, I mean it's just shooting fish in a barrel. If I can learn this, geez, ANYBODY can. It's like when you finally perfect your pasta sauce: The best Italian joint in town may be great, but it's just not the same as what you made yourself! J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 659 Registered: 9-2002 |
LBP I'm TOO long-winded . . . as regards using the VO5: Put just enough between two fingers to feel greasy (about the size of an English Pea cut in half) and just wipe it on the part in question. Wipe off any greasiness, but to where it still feels slick (about the way you'd leave a good blue-finished firearm after wiping a little oil over the exterior after cleaning). That's all there is to it. It's all organic, so nothing there to hurt anything on your axe. I've no digital pictures nor a scanner, so I've yet to post any pictures I like of the BRB or its Japanese nephews. J o e y | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1085 Registered: 7-2004 |
Joey: All right, you got me. How do you know about "LBP"? You been talkin' to somebody at Alembic, maybe? Bill, tgo | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1086 Registered: 7-2004 |
Forget the last post. I just realized ... my user name ... duhhh!!! It's late. I should go home. Bill, tgo | ||
| trekster
Member Username: trekster Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2004 |
my little add-in on Yamaha Basses -- I am the proud owner of a Yamaha BX-1 headless bass, right out of the 80's. I love it! It's my main bass for going to practice, due to the compactness. All maple, and I don't have to buy double-ball end strings. --T | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 582 Registered: 1-2004 |
I bought an ivory white BB3000A (4-string) last month, and just an hour ago I 'won' an eBay-auction for its 5-string twin brother, an ivory white BB5000A. Quite a coincidence, isn't it? Wilfred | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 667 Registered: 9-2002 |
Congrats, Wilfred. I wish I was smart enough to go back and forth from four to five, but you just do the best you can, you know? But of course, great minds do think in similar circles ! ! J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 668 Registered: 9-2002 |
Incidentally, I'm down to the '1/2 a turn here, just a pinch there' in finalizing the setup. Since I pitched the Will Lees and put on the Boomers, this bass REALLY wants about the most dead-straight neck I've seen. It goes to dead straight, then I back it off just the tiniest bit and it's fine. But still REALLY close to laser straight. And I'm still playing with the bass side of the P-pickup, it wants to be real rumbly or not loud enough with less bass presence, still looking for that right pickup height. J o e y | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 583 Registered: 1-2004 |
Here's the two of them together, getting to know each other in the soft comfortable environment of my sofa...  Wilfred | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2330 Registered: 9-2002 |
Bou-hou-hou ...whei-ei-eih ...sbif sbif sobsob -weih ...wei-eih!!! | ||
| tom_z
Advanced Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 315 Registered: 7-2004 |
Sweet Wilfred - very creamy! =) Tom | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 685 Registered: 9-2002 |
Yes, that's one of mine with his four-string kid brother. The five in the foregound is the BB5000A. I just love that look with the off-white, gold parts, and the brass pickup rings. Yamaha also did not dye the ebony, so you can see the chocolate stripes running through the black, a neat little touch. Wilf, did you get the little wrench for adjusting the tuning key tension? It's also real easy to pull the pickup rings and polish the brass, usually the only issue I get with these. They seem to tarnish fairly easily beneath their clear coat. J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 686 Registered: 9-2002 |
Oh, and I LIKE the narrow five string spacing. If you ever run across the 5000AII, you'll find it has the W-I-D-E fingerboard like current TRBs. I play it and it's fine, I just like the narrow better. Of course every time the crybabies fire up that they can't slap and pop on that little old neck, I remind them that Stanley's basses are TINY and shortscale to boot. Not to mention that his hands are just as big as the rest of him, a LARGE man! J o e y | ||
| bassdr
Member Username: bassdr Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2004 |
Joey- cool, cool, I still limit myself to Flame Koa Essence (favorite) Rick 4001 an Peavy Fury IV as they are all about 34" scale and of course 4 strings as it's hard to teach old dogs new tricks_ Michael | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 690 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'm definitely in the Old Dog School, I'm not smart enough to have any fours around anymore, as it's too confusing to go back and forth! But if I did, I'd love to limit (!?!?) myself to a flame koa Essence. Just love Koa, I see some of those koa Taylors and just think that's the prettiest thing I've ever seen. Love that Pacific vibe with Hawaiaan wood and shell inlays. J o e y |
