| Author | Message | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 |
I just got back from a club and thoought i'd post this before i turn in...I heard white room between sets of modern rock bands and it never sounded better,i have a friend in a local rock band.(sidenote: the band before my friends, had some weak(in comparison) looking alembic rip off bass thhat started with an R,) Anyway i don't know much about Cream except that they broke up in the late 60's and Jimi seemed releived about that!!. My mailman let me borrow the cream 2005 dvd and to me they are tearing it up(clapton seems on fire ..but i'm not really one to judge)Any input, are they just as good ,better in some areas? I have been watching the dvd and clapton seems in his element,really tearing into it..ther's a little too many introductions though ...as if everyone in the whole place doesn't know who eric clapton,ginger baker and Jack Bruce are and ginger baker pushing the t-shirts(but that's only .00005% of the video)...other than that it's pure psychedelia | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3623 Registered: 5-2002 |
That show was discussed in an earlier thread here, which you might find interesting reading. In that thread someone mentioned "all the space" that Clapton had to fill, and I had to agree; Clapton was having to play a lot more than he normally would with his band. Although I thought he played well, I thought Clapton was actually "out of his element". I think he's more comfortable in his own band. Even in the "Legends" DVD, I think Clapton looks more "in his element" than in the Cream outing. Just my opinion based on little evidence; I don't see Clapton enough to really know. | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2006 |
checked it out ...thanks.That sums it up pretty well for me. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 875 Registered: 7-2003 |
Jack Bruce definitely confirmed that he was playing less and filling up less space in his Bass Player interview. Though I enjoyed hearing that they could still do it, it was quite different. Despite it all, there were a couple places where Bruce and Baker absolutely challenged King Eric to prove his stuff. In some respects that seemed more dramatic than the old days, when sometimes they seemed just to be chasing each other in circles. | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2006 |
Which issue? I subsribe to bass player,even though i play guitar, i find bass players much more interesting than most guitarists.I think most bass players are better team players,Central to any groove, where the guitars and drums meet. | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 613 Registered: 11-2004 |
The Dec, 2005 BP has Jack on the cover (older photo). Rich | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 878 Registered: 7-2003 |
Good interview, too. Unlike a lot of guys who get interviewed for BP and feel compelled to make a lot of judgements about equipment, etc that really don't need to be made (or they are not qualified to make), Jack had a lot of intimate comments on his playing and on playing with Cream. | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 17 Registered: 4-2006 |
Yeah exactly,I didn't know he had such an extensive musical background and that he was the main songwriter.This makes me wonder if his influence on Clapton was the catalyst that made Clapton what he is today>>Just a hypothesis.I prefer to hear Clapton in this setting in 1968 or 2007.I like to see King Eric out of his element more than in it,it's nice to see him less"comfortable" and workin hard. :0) ....Thanks Rich, awesome article! Matt | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 881 Registered: 7-2003 |
I've always seen Jack as responsible for the tone of the band (through his ultradistinctive vocals and edgy songwriting) with Baker a very close second in the influence of his drum use and rythms(where had you ever heard someone brutalize toms that way before Cream?). Clapton, as he has said more than once, sought out the other two so he could develop in a less entertainment-stage-fame-oriented environment. He definitely brought gobs of great stuff to Cream, but I don't think he could have led the creation of that environment and sound himself (at least from the outset). He was, after all, still a pretty young guy. | ||
| jalevinemd
Advanced Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 400 Registered: 12-2003 |
Something I'm not clear about. I've heard Cream referred to as the first "Supergroup." Where were Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker before? | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 401 Registered: 12-2003 |
Oh, I know what I forgot. I've got an unopened Cream at RAH DVD that I'll never open. Anyone interested? Send me an e-mail. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3647 Registered: 5-2002 |
Before Cream, Jack Bruce played with Alexis Korner, Graham Bond, John Mayall and Manfred Mann. Ginger Baker also played with Korner and with Bond. Clapton was also a Mayall alumnus. When Cream was formed, all three were well known in the British blues scene. The bands of Korner, Bond and Mayall are probably the most significant bands in the early development of British blues. | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 18 Registered: 4-2006 |
Cool,good to know!...Hey Dave i checked out your website and the grooves..very nice!! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3649 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks! | ||
| chuckc
Junior Username: chuckc Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2004 |
I seem to remember seeing the Graham Bond Organization on an early R&R TV show, maybe Shindig and Ginger Baker was playing drums but I seem to remember it more for Graham playing 2 saxaphones at one time. Pretty neat trick. As for the Cream reunion, I have held off commenting on this for a while now but I just can't resist. I caught the PBS broadcast and thought most of the music was fairly pathetic. I originally saw Cream and Vanilla Fudge (WoW, Tim Bogart was a monster bass player) in 68 on their way to the West Coast. It was on this tour that they were doing the material that would eventually end up on the " Wheels of Fire" album. At the time no one had heard any of these extended jam arrangements and it was both overwhelming and awe inspiring. There was some real passion and on-stage communication taking place. You could feel the electricity in the music and the musicians but now almost 40 years later these songs, or possibly more so, the musicians sound tired and completely uninspired. Now I have heard how these concerts were really more about helping Jack out of his financial problems associated with his transplant but I never got a sense that except for Jack, who seemed just happy to be alive and on stage, that Ginger or Eric seemed much interested in what was going on at all. C'mon, Ginger having to read off a laptop the words to "Pressed Rat and Warthog" or the lazy guitar work Clapton did on "Rollin and Tumblin"??? I realize I will take a beating on these observations but just because it was Clapton or anybody else who has been worshipped for years and are still out playing and making huge money for doing so, then there should have been more effort in to, at least, acting like they wanted to be there, which I felt was completly lacking from the performance. | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 402 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for the info, Dave. Have to admit, though, I've never heard of Korner or Bond. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1855 Registered: 9-2003 |
Chuck: My guitar instructor had the same thing to say about Cream when I lent him the RAH '05 disc (and then some! LOL!). I agree, but personally I'm happy just to have 'em playing again, old age be damned! | ||
| chuckc
Junior Username: chuckc Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2004 |
Kevin: I don't disagree about having them playing again but it has almost become comedic how most of the older bands, with the possible exception of McCartney, have put a less than steller product out on today's market. Especially with the prices these acts are commanding. The Stones, Queen, Journey, The Who etal have made tremendous money shlocking through their same tired hits. Call me jaded, but I think I prefer listening to my old albums and remembering the magic that was there when the music was new and fresh. I realize I'm probably in the minority even still having albums but hey the printing on the back is easier to read than on CD/DVD jewel cases. Let's see where did I leave my cane and reading glasses........... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3650 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chuck; one example of an exception to your observation would be the Yes 35th Anniversary DVD, which in my opinion is wonderful. | ||
| chuckc
Junior Username: chuckc Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2004 |
Dave: Ya know, I intentionally didn't mention Yes or Def Leppard and a couple of other "oldies" bands in my semi rant. Everytime I have seen Yes in concert or on any of the current DVDs they never cease to amaze me at how true to their recordings, texture wise, and musicianship wise they are able to sound. And they have managed to stay that way regardless of whether it was Rick Wakeman, Geoff Downes or Tony Kaye on keyboards or Trevor Rabin or Steve Howe on guitar or even Alan White or Bill Bruford on drums. So I acquiesce to your exception, good point. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2376 Registered: 9-2002 |
With the risk being considered a wise guy: don' t forget those "old guys" -apart of trying to make money- they are musicians and they LOVE to play. Alas: their reality of playing now cannot cope with our -by passing time cleaned up- memories of them play. Paul TBO | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 22 Registered: 4-2006 |
interesting :0/ | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 1002 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did I hear pathetic and Cream in the same sentence? I've got to sit down. True the sixty year old Cream doesn't have the same energy level and raw passion of the twenty year old Cream, or in Ginger's case 30. But who among us does? I was a ball of fire in 1968. I do good to get out of bed without groaning now. Cream, for me is the ultimate band. Yes, I'm referring to the youngsters. I was thrilled by just the thought of them getting up and playing together once again. Hang the reasons. It was a magical show for me with the lame Pressed Rat and Warthog, Toad, and any other flat spots. Who else after an almost 40 year layoff could fill the RAH and MSG night after night? Makes me think of Ricky Nelson's "Garden Party" Sam | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 608 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dave - slight hijack - did you ever get to see the Yessymphonic DVD? Graeme | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 3662 Registered: 5-2002 |
Graeme; not yet. | ||
| chuckc
Junior Username: chuckc Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2004 |
Sam : I believe the line in Garden Party was "If memories were all I played, I'd rather drive a truck". I guess I would play memories for the amount of money they were paying Cream to do so. Doubt you could make enough money driving a truck unless it was an armored car and you got to keep everything inside. The fact that they played to a multi-nite sold out MSG and RAH had very little to do with the product and more to do with the event and the players itself, which is OK with me I just choose not to buy into the price of the concert, the DVD, the T-shirt, the poster and on and on with the never ending merchandice that seems to accompany any concert now days. I will reiterate my original contention that regardless of how many years ago it was that they first played together, the performance was not up to snuff. If it truly was a benefit concert for Jack, then just say so and most of the criticism would be a moot point. But don't make it out to be a reunion concert and then sleep walk through the event. It seems most of us here in the club are semi professional musicians though I'm pretty sure most of us have regular day jobs that help pay the bills and such. But regardless, when we perform for money our audience deserves the best show we can deliver. They're not interested in how old we are, or what problems we have in our daily life, they want to be entertained for their hard earned money. I just didn't see the value for the money, of course I saw it for free on PBS, guess I did get my money's worth after all. | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 1003 Registered: 11-2003 |
Chuck Please excuse my counter rant. Certainly everything was overpriced and overmarketed and the nearly $9000 Cream Reunion Warwick is just vulgar. It all comes down to personal opinion and you or anyone else is just as entitled to one as me. I didn't have the opportunity to see them in their prime or maybe I would be more let down. Having watched the DVD several times taking all into consideration I felt that I also got my moneys worth. I didn't feel as though they were sleep walking at all with the possible exception of the aforementioned Toad. But again that's getting into opinions. BTW the Garden Party reference I was going for is that Ricky Nelson was booed for not being just like he was in his early years. Probably a lame analogy at that. Peace Sam | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 884 Registered: 7-2003 |
I guess it depends how seriously you take your expectations of other musicians. Having thought the "remember that old band that used to be so exciting (and inspirational) revival" thing through more than once, I guess my own expectations have mellowed a lot. I face audience expectations regularly and, regardless of what they "deserve" they get what they get and I face the consequences of whether they want to continue coming to hear (not to imply that I don't pay close attention to the marketability of the music I spend my time playing - I do). It's just not that personal. When I first heard of the Cream reunion, after I got done cringing at how it could not and would not live up to any expectations based on what happened between 38 and 40 years back, I decided I would check it out anyway (on PBS, as it wasn't worth more than that to me). What I found was, objectively, pretty much the same performances we all saw. However, I think I fell into the more charitable, or maybe less naive camp: 1. They are old. Period. The amount of originality to what they did was very very limited. But I've been listening to Clapton do that for years. Personally, it's good to see that Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker (the many times heralded "dead speed freak") are looking as good as they are. I don't admire any of the three except for their acheivements (however distant they may be in the past), but I'm not much into celebrities. 2. I was curious how much each could or would be interested in putting out. Not much, compared to my fondest hope, but not a big dissapointment - people rarely live up to other folks expectations. What I did see was a very few glimmers of challenge between them. Frankly, I wasn't sure there'd be any, so I was modestly happy about that. 3. I wanted to see if there was still anything left to learn from these guys that I hadn't heard already. In some respects, I thought yes. However, it wasn't anything to do with being the Cream of old. Glad I didn't all for that one... Nonetheless, there were some bits and thoughts I enjoyed hearing. Personally, I don't have a big problem with celebrities cashing in on their laurels. I can't say I'd necessarily do differently, given the same position and opportunity. I just hate the smell of sour grapes. What makes any of us so naive as to expect these guys would somehow (or for some reason) do this reunion the way we would most have appreciated it. It just surprises me that it seems surprising. As to the "Garden Party" references, I remember talking to my sister late the evening of that MSG concert, which she had just returned from. Rick Nelson was booked to play a gig that was billed as "an evening of old rock and roll". Why didn't anyone sympathize with the audience, who, after waiting 45 min for Nelson to get his sound together, were treated to Ricky refusing to play what was billed? The whole "Garden Party" discussion, controversy, song, etc. was no more than a fairly cynical marketing stunt. There was no way Ricky Nelson was going to gain attention for his new career direction as easily as to bash old R&R (which, as many will recall, was yet to be recognized as hip) and whine that no one appreciated his art. Shrewd. Bill (Message edited by bassman10096 on April 20, 2006) (Message edited by bassman10096 on April 20, 2006) | ||
| olieoliver
Advanced Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 244 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think expectations are relevant to each person. Are you expecting to see the most skillful or the most soulful or the fastest.... I personally think Clapton is a much cleaner, smoother guitar player now than he was in the 60's and 70's, but does than make him better? I think not, just differant. Hendix, one of the greatest, was also very sloppy on a lot of his solos, but had some of the most soulful solos too. Vai, Satriani, Van Halen are all speed demons and very clean and smooth but all 3 pale in comparison to SRV's soul, groove and ability to make a guitar express emotion, i.e. LENNY. I am not trying to argue which is better, as is with all things, depends on who you ask. All are good, just differant. | ||
| chuckc
Junior Username: chuckc Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2004 |
All: I personally can respect and do appreciate the alternative views and feedback. It is refreshing to have a good debate that allows different views to be expressed yet maintains the level of respect these posts have displayed. Peace to all Chuck | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 885 Registered: 7-2003 |
To Chuck, Sam and All: I've taken some ibuprophen and apologize for sharing all of my headache a few min ago. It is amazing how different our various perspectives are and that is what makes this forum interesting. Sorry for ranting. Bill (Message edited by bassman10096 on April 20, 2006) | ||
| olieoliver
Advanced Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 246 Registered: 2-2006 |
Excuse my spelling guys, I mean differ"E"nt. My daughter,(an english) spots everything. | ||
| olieoliver
Advanced Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 247 Registered: 2-2006 |
Excuse my spelling guys, I mean differ"E"nt. My daughter,(an english major) spots everything. | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2006 |
I love this club!! I still think the video was awesome.Even if they are half as good.They still play with more feeling at 60-65 years old than 99%+ of the new modern rock/popular bands(some"jam" bands not included) out today who play the same songs the same way everytime,how boring that is.I think those of you who got to see cream(circa 68-) and the others are some lucky dudes.One thing i am extremely happy about is the fact that i was able to see the DEAD, my first show was in 92 (JGB at the san jose event center,then GD @ cal expo--at the time did not even know that music like that was even possible.)Then came the Allmans in so. cal --HOLY CRAP I didn't know what hit me!!I have a buddy to thank that i met in college for steering me that way. I know 1973 is considered the dead's finest hour but i still was able to catch some great shows. In oregon after a day GD daytime show(indigo girls opened up those shows) i saw kimmock(with zero)playing in a hotel ballroom, we walked there from the camping lot after the show. That was some amazing music.I read someones personal quote"I'm glad my life coincided with the grateful dead"...Me too. (Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) (Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) (Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2006 |
(Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2006 |
(Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) | ||
| prodigalson
Junior Username: prodigalson Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2006 |
(Message edited by prodigalson on April 20, 2006) | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 887 Registered: 7-2003 |
After some more reflection and a good night's sleep, I have this observation on Cream '05-06 that Mattew made me realize I had forgotten to make. Despite any shortcomings to the performances, it was still more satisfying and seemed more worthwhile to see and hear EC, JB and GB haul out their old stuff than many performances by current, very talented musicians doing their "now" things. I think it had to do with seeing 3 guys who were once very exceptional players and who had once done something very unusual and who have moved on, each in their own ways. Then to have them revisit the songs of so long ago, having continued way down their own paths in the meantime, and hearing their take - now - on that music was inherantly worth the time to give a listen. This is not the easiest thing to put a finger on and articulate (and I've already said 175% more about it than I think I have every said on this forum), so I'm sorry if I've bored or annoyed anyone. Maybe I'll just say this for Cream - I like watching old dogs who've forgotten more than most others have ever known. Now I sort of feel like buying a reunion T shirt (NOT!!!) |
