| Author | Message | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2002 |
The reason I am asking is because I have started recording practice sessions of a band I jam with.... I go DI from my demeter because I get a much cleaner and better sound than I would ever get with a mic on my cab (15" bagend)...its not a drastically different sound,or even better, just alot more pure ( i think anyway)... I recently got into a debate (when I knew better to keep my mouth shut lol ) with the guitar player because I had him going direct from his Marshall head (JCM something or other)...He claims that his direct tone isnt close to what comes out of his cabinet...His recorded tone does not sound good, especially with his overdrive channel, but what is recorded is what I hear in the room...(I attribute his bad tone as an overuse/misuse of effects), he claims that is not the case, that his tone from his cabinet (a marshall 4x12 i think), is alot better.. ( My question to you guys is, what do you prefer? direct or mic, and why? | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 798 Registered: 12-2002 |
the bass is always better direct,& the guitar (to me)is better miked. | ||
| crgaston
Intermediate Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 174 Registered: 11-2005 |
When I was using 8's exclusively, either an SWR 4x8 or 8x8, we would sometimes throw a Shure SM-57 on it and the engineers loved it. We would have a direct and a mic line and often they would end up using just the mic, sometimes adding the direct for some more bottom. In general, though, Keavin is right. | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 122 Registered: 9-2002 |
cool....thanks guys... | ||
| pace
Advanced Member Username: pace Post Number: 225 Registered: 4-2004 |
When I was still in school & had acess to the mic closet, the best sound I ever got to tape was a mix of direct & a Royer ribbon mic about 3' from a 15"..... | ||
| olieoliver
Advanced Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 231 Registered: 2-2006 |
I always liked the direct approach live but in the studio I like to run two channels. One direct and the other from a mike in front of my rig. Gives you more control and options on the sound. (Message edited by olieoliver on April 17, 2006) | ||
| gare
Advanced Member Username: gare Post Number: 366 Registered: 11-2003 |
I agree with Olie, given the option/enough channels, I've run a direct box, direct out from amp, and miked the cabinet. The direct box should give you the purest signal (in theory), that can always be re-eq'd or run to effects etc. if it turns out your amp sound isn't suitable. But if the only option were mic'd or direct out I'd go direct (Keavins answer). G | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2002 |
thanks for the great info.... So for a mic, which would be better, an SM57 type, or a condenser mic run off of phantom power... | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 845 Registered: 6-2002 |
In the dark days of recording bedroom band practices, we used to put a set of headphones (not the "open" type) on the floor, right in front of the bass drum, with all amps roughly in a circle, with the headphones cord into a Y splitter, into the microphone jacks on the front of the cassette deck. So headphones can be pretty good microphones, if memory serves me right. Better than the electrets they used to put into ghettoblasters, anyway. | ||
| crgaston
Intermediate Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2005 |
The 57 worked well with the 8's, but they're pretty small speakers. Traditionally people have used a D-112 or some other good kick drum mic because they handle the high-spl low end stuff really well. I don't have any experience with condensers for bass, but it sounds like it could be good. If you have access to stuff, the best thing to do is compare for yourself. | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 125 Registered: 9-2002 |
actually this is for a guitar cab....not bass...I have always gone direct for bass.... | ||
| olieoliver
Advanced Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2006 |
I love the SM-57's they are durable and always reproduce a comperable sound of the guitar or bass amp. I know a lot of guitarist now are going direct out of their effects into the board on live shows. This is great as it cuts down on equipment to carry and gives the Sound guy more control but I do think it loses a lot of the players personality. I guess weigh the options and choose which is best for you, Mic or direct? | ||
| kenbass4
Advanced Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2003 |
For guitar recording, I always mic the cabinet, with an SM-57 off-axis up close, and a condenser about 3 feet away (making sure to check the phase of the mics in mono before tracking). The guitar tracks sound HUGE. | ||
| zuperdog
Junior Username: zuperdog Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2005 |
Yup. Gotta mic the cab for guitar. SM57 close, and I like to put a 58 about a foot away from the back if it's an open or semi-open cab. I bought one of the newer Boogie Dual Rectifier Recording Preamps when they came out, which were designed to mimic the personality of a cab and speakers (as well as pre and power amp sections), while letting you go direct. I messed around with it forever, and couldn't get anywhere close to the sound I could get in 5 seconds sticking a mic or two in front of my favorite amp. Still, it's the closest I've heard going direct. | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 126 Registered: 9-2002 |
what about drums? Anyone here have suggestions for those? Ive been using three, a bass drum mic, and tw overheads placed in front.... the drummer I play with likes to put them in back of the set though. this results in a lower signal and more room noise in the tracks though | ||
| zuperdog
Junior Username: zuperdog Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2005 |
If you want GOOD recorded drums, you've got to mic each one. I use: Beta 52 for the kick, PG56s or SM57s for the toms, an SM57 for the snare, and PG81s for overheads. Everything placed very close to the drum, toward the drummer, at a 60 degree angle or so. If you don't have enough mixer space on your recorder, a cheap Behringer pre-mixer works really good for this, mixing all of the drum mics down to one or two tracks. Placing mics in back of the set never works out too good, in my experience. I know there are a lot of different opinions on mics and placement, so maybe someone else will chime in with an alternative. | ||
| glocke
Intermediate Member Username: glocke Post Number: 127 Registered: 9-2002 |
yeah, im limited on mics...2 overheads and a bass drum mic....I keep putting the mics in front and down close, and liek the results i get...but the drummer always ends up putting them in back and far away...this always gives me a weaker signal, and alot more noise because I need to turn up the gain.... | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 402 Registered: 2-2005 |
I seem to recall seeing somewhere for two mic drum recording the recommendation was to have them placed slightly behind and above the dummer in an X setup. If this was not possible then two mics placed in front of and slightly higher than the drums (again crossing the mics)was considered an acceptable alternative. Keith | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 856 Registered: 6-2002 |
The X setup works with directionals, and not with omnis. Most mics in a rehearsal room will be directionals, like the average 57. Good point about placing them slightly BEHIND the drummer - with the added benefit that (s)he won't complain about the placement. | ||
| s_wood
Intermediate Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 198 Registered: 5-2002 |
The best sound I've ever gotten on tape (well, actually it was a hard drive) was at CBGB's in NYC where they took a DI out of my F1-X to one channel, and a EV RE-20 miking my cab to the other. Whenever I record, that's the setup I try to use. | ||
| zuperdog
Junior Username: zuperdog Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2005 |
I would agree that in a live situation, where everything except monitors is pointed away from the kit, the best placement is behind the drummer facing forward. In a practice situation, where everyone's often facing into a circle, I get better sound by placing them in front of the drummer facing back, in the same cross or "x" pattern, and almost straight down. Condensers work great for this, but 57s are hard to beat for the $. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 753 Registered: 9-2002 |
WHAT you're going to use for recording bass ALL depends on WHO's running the board and/or engineering. Here in NashVegas, I've heard of everything: mic'd cabs, mic'd cabs+direct, chessy direct box (Whirlwind, etc.) right into the snake, serious direct box (Demeters, F1Xs, Kerns, Avalons, who knows what else), homemade/custom zany specials (a Bogen tube ex-high school PA head with a custom tap post pre/pre power), the mic'd cab inside the huge road ATA coffin, and a bunch more I can't imagine. Bring your own stuff, you've got about 30 seconds of their attention to see IF it really does sound good and they'll use it. Otherwise you plug into what they use everyday or go home. They record FAST here. You either sound fine RIGHT NOW, or you're dead. So it's usually only the big name bass studio guys that have a say. If you're David Hungate or Mike Rhodes, you've got some say. If you're not on that level, you use their setup. Period. Then to top it all off, they'll take ProTools, etc., and do whatever they want to it, often sounding NOTHING like you heard it go down. I wonder if I could use one of those voice tuners for perfect fretless? J o e y | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 649 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hi Gregory, I record electric guitar both direct and mic'd. It gives me more control in the mix. The mix is one of the very few places I actually am a control freak...... Freak, always.... Control Freak, very rarely... MIc'd: I use EV N/D757's (both plain 757's and 757A's for a little more depth). Direct: I almost always use the Mesa/SF-2 punch (for those little tweaks that make this road we've chosen so worth living). Bass, as with most others.... direct (in my case)through F-1X/SF-2. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 713 Registered: 10-2003 |
One technique that's become somewhat popular is to: a) mic the amp b) run a direct line c) place a mic over the picking hand and/or fingerboard (or both) and mix betwixt them for best effect. I would love to try this out, but haven't done any recording in ages and don't see any happening anytime soon. What I *have* done quite a bit is to: a) mic the amp (for highs/mids) b) run a DI straight from the bass (for clean lows) John | ||
| ampeglb100
Member Username: ampeglb100 Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have found the best results by recording with a few mics that you like (so you have a some options later on) while running a direct line as well. If you are like me, you have spent a ton of time finding the right amp, tweaking it to your liking, finding the right cab, the right bass, and just overall getting your live/practice rig setup sounding how you like it. So when I go to record, all I really want to do is capture that sound on tape/digital. Experimenting with good mics and mic placement is the key, and you can find a ton of recomendations online to get you started. A direct line (after the pre-amp) is great too just to capture whatever the mic's missed and/or to even out the low end frequency response, but basically in mixing I use the mic(s) first and then bring up the direct and see how it sounds. If it doesn't add anything that makes it better then I don't use it. I use passive basses and a lot of my sound comes from my amp, so I guess this is just me... I have never recorded with my Alembics... so maybe with great active electronics you can go about this differently, but above all my lesson is: If you have spent hours/days/years practicing with your amp/cab/bass setup getting it to sound just right in the context of the band, recording it should simply be a matter of trying to capture that sound you love as cleanly and transparently as you can, rather than going into a studio and starting all over and/or using a lot of equipment to make it sound "better"... just my two bits. Andy |
