| Author | Message | ||
| bigideas
Member Username: bigideas Post Number: 90 Registered: 1-2004 |
Ed Roman has stopped carrying Alembic because; "Their pricing system defies all known logical parameters". Apparently Ed's as bad with his maths as he is with his facts. | ||
| jlpicard
Senior Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 449 Registered: 7-2002 |
He told me pretty much the same story about a week ago. That and they're too heavy! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1014 Registered: 9-2002 |
'Their pricing system defies all logical parameters' . . . . hell, I thought he figured out HIS prices on all those 'custom shop' things he builds and sells with a roulette wheel. J o e y | ||
| echo008
Advanced Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2003 |
What a strange guy... Im sorry to quote again but I wanted to post his full quote. "We had to stop carrying Alembic, Their pricing system defies all known logical parameters Plus we all agree the Dingwall Prima Basses are far superior" Guess hes getting big discounts on Dingwall. and Im not sure who he referring to when he says "we" (Message edited by echo008 on September 12, 2006) (Message edited by echo008 on September 12, 2006) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1616 Registered: 7-2004 |
Ed may not want to carry Alembic, but his site also contains this: "We Are Looking For Used Alembic Guitars & Basses" Dingwall far superior? Up until 30 seconds ago I never heard of them. Checked out their web site. I don't know about the basses, but the guitars look like weird Teles. Big deal. Ed says Dingwalls are "far superior". Translated into regular human english, I suspect that means "we can make a lot more $ off of Dingwalls" Bill, tgo | ||
| 2400wattman
Advanced Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 226 Registered: 11-2005 |
You should read his rant about not "hoarding your money" and "spending it on a guitar from him". Hell I like some of his rants and tech. info but this one rubbed me wrong. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1048 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dingwall has built some pretty impressive basses over the years - it's definitely not an alias of Ed Roman. Dingwall do have a "budget" line of sorts, like numerous other boutique builders. Do a search on TalkBass - you might be impressed. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Advanced Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2006 |
Dingwall doesn't do "it" for me. If I had the choice between 10 Dingwalls or 1 Alembic... I'd go for the Dingwalls, sell 'em and get myself 2 Alembics!  | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 1059 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm interested in how Dingwall's slanted frets work out. I've been wanting to try one out but there isn't a dealer nearby. Fender, Ibanez, Epiphone I could try out by the thousands. Other than that I have to go to Orlando. That's too far a drive to satisfy a curiousity. Sorry I know that wasn't the gist of this thread but I don't have an opinion on Ed Roman not having any first hand experience. Sam | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 594 Registered: 1-2004 |
You just can't compare Dingwall and Alembic, they both make good instruments, but it's like comparing a Ferrari with a Rolls Royce. I feel sorry for Ed Roman, he must be a very frustrated, unhappy man who's well aware of his own shortcomings... Wilfred | ||
| paulman
Member Username: paulman Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2005 |
Heh Ed immediately took my lowball offer when I bought my Further from him. "The case is extra?", I said..."here's what I'm willing to pay for the whole thing" which was not much more than he had it listed for online...and then he cleaned and shipped it next day air without adding on any extra money. Seemed strange then but now it seems like he just wanted to unload it. It'd been there for a year at that point. | ||
| jlpicard
Senior Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 450 Registered: 7-2002 |
That's a laugh about Dingwall. He tried to tell me the exact same thing. Tried to tell me I was a "name dropper" because I played Alembics!? It's as if he was trying to goad me into buying what he wanted to sell me, He obviously does not understand the type of discerning musician that is a typical Alembic customer. I told him ," Ed, I 've been playing for over thirty-five years and I've owned many basses. it's as simple as this; I play Alembics because they're the best and I like them", to which he had no come back! No wonder he can't sell guitars! | ||
| bigideas
Member Username: bigideas Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2004 |
So I went to find the rant on "hoarding your money" that Adam mentioned and read a huge rant on Americans only buying American products to support America. Now, I love Dingwall basses if for no other reason than because he's a great local boy with an ingenious and creative mind. He and his little troupe also make great basses that Saskatoon can be proud of. But that brings me to the point. Alembic, besides being one of (if not the) best builder in the business, is the quintessential American Mom'n Pop outfit. Dingwall is a ingenious man with a little shop in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, CANADA. oh Ed, you so crazy. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1018 Registered: 9-2002 |
Big, you don't have to rub it in; I just LOVE Canada, a VERY civilized country. For the life of me I don't know why more of us in 'the States' don't visit Canada for vacation. I can't recommend it highly enough, at least when it's NOT snowing! J o e y | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2469 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mmmmm ...I just loo-ove Dingwalls. They must be somewhere on my wishlist ...still far away ...behind the horizon wise Hehe Paul TBO | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1051 Registered: 6-2002 |
Times are catching up with people of the "Americans buy American only" variety ... even such hitech icons as the iPod that are sold under a "proud" US brand, are actually built by Chinese workers who work long, long hours for about 80 USD per month. And who get fined 10 USD for talking. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4428 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey; Canada is a long drive from here. When you and I get together, it will be a major journey for me <g>. I would love to visit Canada, the whole thing. I especially would like to visit Nova Scotia; but I think Vancouver would be interesting as well. I'm not sure if you can still do it, but I've seen a tv documentary of a train you can take from one end of the country to the other, the highlight being the Canadian Rockies. But on the other hand, I've never been to Santa Rosa, CA; I hear it's pretty interesting too. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4429 Registered: 5-2002 |
Without getting overly political (the moderator might be looking), here's a couple things that come to mind on the issue raised above of global trade. It's a small planet. When buying produce, if locally grown organic produce is available, buy it. Buying food from small local family farmers who care about the land seems a better choice than buying from large multi-national corporations that put corporate profits above care for farm workers and the land. When buying something like coffee, look for "Fair-Trade" items. Fair Trade coffee comes from small family farmers who care about the land and are paid fairly for their crop. "Fair-Trade" applies to clothing and other items too. Fair-Trade businesses insure that the people making the products are paid fairly, and it helps build struggling local economies around the world. If you're buying clothing, look for "non-sweatshop". Also "organic-cotton" is another positive choice. If your buying hardware items, if there's one nearby, your local family owned hardware store needs your support more than the multi-national big box store. Same with clothing and other items; it helps to support small local family owned businesses rather than the big corporations. It's a small planet, and we all have a stake in its survival. We should all care when drought affects family farms in Africa. We should all care when children are being forced to work in sweatshops. We should all care when local communities in any part of the world have high unemployment. We should all care when large corporations pollute our air, land and water. "Buying American" means nothing if the profits from our purchases go to millionaire shareholders of large corporations that don't pay their workers a fair wage. It's a small planet and we need to support each other all over the world. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1647 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well said, Dave. And don't forget to support the small mom and pop and daughter musicical instrument builders too! Bill, tgo | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 374 Registered: 3-2004 |
I completely agree that one should consider carefully when making purchases and do as your values dictate. (that goes for donations to needy causes as well) I do find it more than interesting that despite all of the changes and progress in the past century, there are still appauling practices and customs throughout the world. The U.S. sends billions all over the world for support and development, yet the horrors still continue, the warlords still strangle populations, genocide still goes on and the list continues. Perhaps we can all pray that the root of corruption that follows charity in the developing world will be erradicated. Then the true value of the support that is given by the developed world will benefit the ones that need it most as Dave has listed. On a positive note, thanks to Susan and Mica and Mary as well as the whole group of craftsmen in Santa Rosa, my support of Alembic continues with the delivery of my Cherry red Skylark on Tuesday. Oh, btw I suggest Washington Music instead of Ed. They have always been great to me. Ask for Brian in guitars! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1034 Registered: 9-2002 |
While, as usual, I'm not nearly as well-spoken nor carefully considered in my views as Dave, I distilled the same idea down to this: I vastly prefer to spend my money where it's going to the person I'm handing it to, or at least going no further than the building I'm in, straight to the owners in the back office. The advent of the big box stores, whether Starbucks, McDonald's, Home Depot, Guitar Center has engendered a generation of 'it's not my job, I'm just a cog in a huge machine' no-service morons. And often at the very top, customer service is a leg of the business equal to logistics, loss prevention, advertising, etc., who's positive targets are only useful to boost the stock price every quarter, NOT to be genuinely useful or helpful to customers. Of course you CAN find two or three good people in these places, but they are inevitably the exceptions apart from the rest of the employees. My favorite Field Test of this? Walk into any Starbucks and ask for a cup of coffee. Just a plain cup of coffee. 'Sir, I'll have to get my manager!' 'You want a cup of COFFEE, sir? I don't know if that's in my computer . . . ' Priceless. I find this much less in any business where the owner is talking to me, or watching his business closely. Plus, I'm just a real sucker for old-time hardware stores! J o e y | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2002 |
Nicely put, Joey (don't be so modest). I've said most of this here before, but as long as the moderator isn't looking... Perhaps the single biggest factor in choosing Alembic to build my custom, was the fact that they were close enough to visit in person, a few times during the process. I happen to believe there are a few other people on this planet who can put together a very nice instrument, but not obviously better - so proximity was a big factor. As it turned out, the time I spent with these people is perhaps even more valuable than the instrument itself (which is saying a lot). The sense of making a personal connection, rather than simply a business transaction, is a powerful and lasting thing. Granted, the "buy local" strategy isn't terribly viable for the vast majority of this group. And in that vein, I would once again like to remind those few who from time-to-time "remind" us to buy American, that you are vastly outnumbered here by those who live elsewhere, and might quite reasonably find that an offensive suggestion. I for one wouldn't hesitate to cross the border into Canada, if that's where Santa Rosa happened to be located (though it would be a tedious drive...). Yet even despite great distances, the attention you get from this little group of artisans in Santa Rosa is truly remarkable. So while it's great that they happen to be local to me, the fact that it's all so direct and personal, wherever you are, is what really matters. -Bob (adriaan, I'm not clear on what point you were making, but am glad it prompted this discussion. Having read a great deal about it, the iPod manufacturing brouhaha seems to have a lot of subtle twists - for instance, as I recall the #1 worker complaint was not being permitted to work as much overtime as they wanted! Apple acknowledged a small number of specific issues, insisted they be addressed, and apparently even came to the defense of the original "squealers" of the report when they were being prosecuted, essentially for unfavorable Chinese publicity. I don't know what that all means, except that it is indeed becoming a smaller world - which doesn't necessarily make things any simpler.) | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1058 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bob, perhaps I was confusing two recent news stories - one thing with the iPod story as I recall was that there were lots of subcontractors involved, so on the surface it really did look to be in good order. China was not and is not really a friendly place to live as a private person of little means - neither under communism, nor under the present market-driven economy. The point is still the same one made by Charlie Chaplin in Modern Times. No need to add much to that. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2030 Registered: 9-2003 |
Oh man! I could get in a lot of trouble here! I'm just gonna stop before I start. Kudos to Dave for keeping me politically correct (on the site, at least), LOL! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| tubeperson
Junior Username: tubeperson Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hey Keavin, forget "politically correct", free speech required you to express your thoughts. That PC crap is the worst kind of censorship as it makes people hide their true thoughts. Don't wimp out now! I can say from personal experience that there are at least two Ed Roman's. One is very difficult, and will not answer questions and be very gruff, the other goes out of his way to help you. While I was purchasing the Triple Omega, he extolled the virtues of Alembic. Two weeks later, he was already singing praises of the Dingwall. This is his right to do so, just as we have a believe that Alembic rules supreme. There are many rational folks who would think we have left our senses for spending what we do on Alembics. Sorry club members, the thread needed to get back to its original point, theres way too much politics, and that brings on hate and misinformation. It seems everyone wants to speak and no one chooses to listen. Love ya all, I learn new things all the time on this site! | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 709 Registered: 11-2002 |
Agreed, we should probably get back on topic - but I just have to say that I do not agree that it's because "everyone wants to speak and no one chooses to listen", or that the discussion here has brought on any "hate and misinformation". I somehow doubt that's what you really meant to say anyway - people here really do seem to listen, and every once in a while give a little thought to something beyond these very expensive instruments we are fortunate enough to play. (I'm with you completely on Chaplin, Adriaan) And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... | ||
| tubeperson
Junior Username: tubeperson Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hello Bob: My point was not that club members spread hate or misinformation, (although there are cliques in our club), However peaople feel lmited in what they say for fear of offending someone. If You look at the diplomatic situation in the world, there is a lot of non-communicatoni (or at least one way communication). Look at some marriages which have the same lack of two way communication issues to deal with. We are very lucky to be able to spend time on wonderful instruments, but in the scheme of things, there are other very important issues that also require our attention. Dave H., our fearless moderator and great resource (despite some opinions for which we have different views by the way) has been very good about expressing his environmental concerns for example. Others would condemn the use of the exotice woods on our real loves in life (that was for you Keavin, the basses don't demand fur coats like the wives or alimony like ex-wives do). Keep playing and lsiten, its the best kind of music there is. Here comes Moazrt - too many notes! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1060 Registered: 6-2002 |
Steve (tubeperson), You're being tongue-in-cheek about Mozart, right? Well, to my ears, any note by him is a couple too many. Perhaps it's the ever-confirmative harmonizations (granted: behind some very catchy melodies) that make my mind wander off. | ||
| tubeperson
Junior Username: tubeperson Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hello Adrian: Now to hijack "my" own thread. A tongue in a cheek - who's tongue and who's cheek? Ahhhh the endless possibilities, and yes someone gets my sense of humor, that statement was meant in humor. Just try to LOL the way Thomas Hulce (Pinto Animal House fans) the way he did in the movie. The nets will follow soon thereafter! Here's to anti-Politically correct, if this tounging and cheeking offends you, you need to get over yourself, and find your own cheek to tounge! Soprry crew, client tax filings en masse - all I see are Gov't forms to prepare. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1063 Registered: 6-2002 |
Steve, I didn't mind the tongue-in-cheek bit - just wanted to add a reality check that even people who like classical music don't necessarily like Mozart. | ||
| tubeperson
Junior Username: tubeperson Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hey Adrian: Its kind of like preferring hip hop to ballet. We should celebrate our individalu interests and tastes, but I loved the Mozart wig and laugh! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1064 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Steve: Some people say "It's all good." Just not me. | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 941 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hey tubeperson the kevin you are refering to is kmh364 (kevin) & not me (keavin) although they're pronounced the same,Im not much a political person however i love george Bush LOL!!! | ||
| tubeperson
Junior Username: tubeperson Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2005 |
Hey Keavin: There's nothing wrong with that, either not being the other Keavin or loving George Bush. I will resist the tempation to say I prefer female ............. LoL! I keep tellig you, it's all of these tax forms. | ||
| honkylips
Junior Username: honkylips Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2005 |
The Alembic portion of Ed's web page still gives a very glowing description of Alembic instruments. Now Ed says the Dingwall is "far" superior to Alembic. C'mon Ed, high-end instruments such as Alembic, Dingwall, Fodera, etc. are really just a matter of preference. Are we really to believe that any one high-end bass is actually "far" superior to another? | ||
| 2400wattman
Advanced Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 239 Registered: 11-2005 |
Remember guys, Ed's NOT A BASS PLAYER! | ||
| applejuice
Member Username: applejuice Post Number: 72 Registered: 1-2006 |
Ed is an idiotic sack of crap as far as I know. A guy I used to work for is a friend of Ed. When he bought one of his Brian May guitars, it took him a year to build it. Then, when he finally finished it, Ed tried to get more money from him by saying the price that he was given was just for a guitar with one pickup and some other crap like that. He payed what he was originally quoted. |
