| Author | Message | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1209 Registered: 6-2002 |
Just saw this new model NS Design WAV advertized on Edwin van Huyk's site. Price is even lower than the Chinese "Landscape" brand you see here and there, and it looks much like the top-of-the-line NS series. It's an all-wood instrument, so it's not a graphite/wood composite like the expensive ones, and it doesn't have a preamp. It does have the same "Polar" pickup system. Anyone tried one of these out yet? Opinions? (Message edited by adriaan on January 11, 2007) | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1355 Registered: 4-2004 |
i have the cr5m and it sounds great...... the stands are VERY heavy ebay is a good source | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 87 Registered: 6-2004 |
I have a CR4, and I played one of the WAVs recently. It felt fine - no real difference, I thought. I wasn't in a position to get any idea regarding the sound of the WAV pickups as compared with the pickups on the CR. Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1212 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was afraid people were going to recommend it, and now I'm afraid I'll be buying one in a couple of weeks! Gesundheit. Thanks to Jeff and Rick for their responses. MSRP is 1095 USD - how do they manage that? Good to see that Alembic is not the only company who are offering the same level of quality across the price spectrum. The amberburst and transparent red finishes look real classy - at least in the pictures. Rick, did you play the WAV through an amp? I know you couldn't A/B the two, but you know what the top-of-the-line sounds like. Would you say the WAV produces a convincing sound? The point is that I'm a bit puzzled by the description of the Polar pickups on the WAV: "unusually powerful piezo crystals that do not require on-board battery power, for maintenance-free performance without the hassle of batteries." - all the other models seem to have an onboard preamp. OK, so it looks like I'll be off to 41" scale land in a couple of weeks ... just after getting used to 32". Perhaps a good idea to take my first ever bass lessons. And buy a bow! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1214 Registered: 6-2002 |
Any recommendations on bows? | ||
| groovelines
Senior Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 437 Registered: 4-2003 |
Adriann, Do you have any prior "upright" experience? The reason I ask is that I've wanted an NS CRxx EUB for a few years now, but don't have any practical experience and am concerned about transitioning from electric to EUB. I'd like to know how this works out for you. The MSRP is unforgivably tempting. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1216 Registered: 6-2002 |
Michael (groovelines), As a self-taught player, I've handled an acoustic upright perhaps on 10 occasions in 30 years of playing bass guitar, but have never owned one myself. I didn't feel intimidated, but the ones I used were probably 3/4 size, where perhaps 41" is full size? Even if that scale is 20% longer than a 34" bass guitar, and the strings are in a strange position, the proportions on the fingerboard are the same, so your fingers will know where to go. I know the lowest notes are further away than you would expect, but I've noticed the same on a fretless 34" - so it's more a question of making the intonation happen, so you finally can be in tune with that keyboard ... which by the way will probably not be in tune with an actual piano. Neck shape is another issue - probably more rounded in the back, and defintely more arched on the fingerboard. The brochure for the WAV says it's setup with light action, but it can be adjusted with a trussrod for neck relief, and the bridge height can be changed. "unforgivably tempting" nails it! I've always loved the way that uprights can make the notes stand up, even at low volume. (I know, it's the player as much as the instrument.) | ||
| groovelines
Senior Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 438 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, Adriaan I was contemplating NS's bass cello, this looks like a fun alternative. If you do happen to purchase the WAV, I'd be interested in feedback. adios, Mike | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2004 |
I think Roth still makes some decent affordable bows - including some fiberglass ones. You'll have to decide between French and German. The NS uprights (any electric upright, probably, for that matter) don't do what acoustic uprights do in terms of the sound of the note - that sensation of the note warming and expanding after it is played is a function of real acoustic basses which doesn't happen on the solid electrics. There is still a lot of character to the notes that are reminiscent of acoustic basses though. Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1217 Registered: 6-2002 |
Not sure about those bow types - French is where you "push" from the top, German where you "pull" underhanded? Does one choose based on the reach of one's right arm, is it usually the teacher who decides, or is it something else entirely? | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2004 |
There is a live debate about which is best - anecdotally I think most classical players now use the German (you've described them correctly). I think a lot of it is teacher-driven, but there is a lot of discussion about which gives you the best combination of qualities - strength, flexibility of wrist, etc. It's been a long time since I thought about it a lot. I use the French style, because my teacher favoured it and all my bows are French. I am sure there are lots of good reasons to use the German style as well. Shouldn't we be hearing from someone with classical chops on this subject? Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1223 Registered: 6-2002 |
Rick, Following up on your comment "that sensation of the note warming and expanding after it is played is a function of real acoustic basses which doesn't happen on the solid electrics" ... I knew that. But how about the attack part of the note? What I was trying to describe was that feeling of air being "shaken, not stirred". Do you know if the upgrade to proper db strings is worth it? NS suggests d'Addario Helicore. Perhaps has someone tried Thomastik? | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2004 |
Adriaan, I figured you knew that. In terms of the attack, I find that on the NS it depends a lot on my right hand, and more particularly on whether I set the string vibrating "vertically" (by which I mean, more or less perpendicular to the body and bridge) or "horizontally" (ie, more or less parallel to the body and bridge). When I do the former, there is a more old-school "whoomph" kind of attack sound - less so with the latter. I particularly notice the difference in a large ensemble setting. I bought my NS without db strings on, but immediately switched to Thomastiks, which I like the feel of better, they have a proper db feel. I haven't tried the D'Addarios. Hope this is of some help. Rick | ||
| inthelows
Advanced Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2006 |
French bow lends itself to faster playing and is lower and lighter than most german bows. The german style is more robust and the string tensioner is longer. Playing style has a lot to do with it. I use both on my upright Schroetter. That acoustic resonance wave after the attack should be obtainable. A compressor/sustainer gives a nice touch. The fact that the body type and size is a huge factor on how it sounds. Acoustic that is. I would think with the electrics a little creative tinkering of the knobs at your disposal may give you what you're after. Just stay away from el-cheapo strings. They sound horrible on my acoustic and I really believe that the electronics overcome a lot, but garbage in = garbage out.IMHO P.S. Don't forget the string rosin! NLP (Message edited by inthelows on January 17, 2007) | ||
| alembic_doctor
Intermediate Member Username: alembic_doctor Post Number: 135 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think there is a joke about the french in their somewhere | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1227 Registered: 6-2002 |
That would be bow with an L, not at the end (pin intended). | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1228 Registered: 6-2002 |
Rick, Funny you should bring up the vertical/horizontal issue, in relation to the way you pluck/strike/stroke the string. The Polar pickup system is supposed to be a set of "directional" pickups, one for the vertical component of the vibration, which is more relevant if you play pizzicato, and one for the horizontal component, which is more relevant when you play arco. From what I understand, the NS has two volume controls to blend the two signals? NLP, Thanks for the input - I guess you can't play arco without a bit of rosin (resin?) to prep the hairy bits. Are you saying that a German bow is more suited to strong and loud playing, and a French bow more to delicate and agile? Would it be easier to start with German (no pun available) and later on take up French? The Ns strings are said to be made by d'Addario, so I assume they're not directly the el-cheapo type. Anyway, let's see if they can get me started. The el-espensivo type seems carry a hefty price tag, pushing even 34" Pyramid flats into the 'vey affordable' category. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1253 Registered: 6-2002 |
Rick, You mentioned putting TI db strings on your CR4 - but which ones? Browsing through the TalkBass discussions, I found a link to a couple of direct-to-digital recordings that someone did with an NS CR4M and a couple of different types of strings. I especially like the sound of the TI Belcanto - others have a modern "buzz" to them, that I don't really care for. The buzzy types seem to have lots more sustain, so I guess that's a trade-off. Of the buzzy types, the Helicore Hybrids seemed to be the least zingy. Anyway, on another thread, someone suggested TI Flexicore was a less expensive alternative for Belcanto. And which length does one need - 3/4 or 4/4? Thanks in advance! | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 95 Registered: 6-2004 |
Adriaan, I used a classical TI string - I think Belcanto is probably right, but I can't recall the precise name. 3/4 scale. Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1259 Registered: 6-2002 |
Rick, Classical, as in: not buzzy? From those sample recordings on an NS ... TI Belcanto ... what I would call classic ... d'Addario Helicore Hybrid ... a little buzzy, but not too bad ... d'Addario Helicore Pizzicato ... metallic and buzzy ... | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 96 Registered: 6-2004 |
Sorry Adriaan, those links don't seem to work for me. But the short answer is yes. Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1260 Registered: 6-2002 |
Short answer is fine with me! Correct, the links in my previous message don't work - use this instead. | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 600 Registered: 1-2004 |
Did you buy the one at Bass Connection last Saturday, Adriaan? Last Tuesday I wanted to check it out, but it was sold. Luckily Edwin has immediately ordered another one. I'll give it a good testdrive tomorrow and big chance it's coming home with me! Wilfred | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1287 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Wilfred, After your posts on TalkBass I was assuming it was you who bought it ... I'm planning a visit this Saturday, if Ed still has one or two in store. Keep us posted! | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 601 Registered: 1-2004 |
  Here's mine, it's hard work for every note, but I love it! Wilfred | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1290 Registered: 6-2002 |
Looking sharp! | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 499 Registered: 7-2004 |
Congrats Wilfred. Great looking bass. BTW - I always really like the photographs you post here. I can't think of anyone else that posts B&W. Very nice. Peace Tom | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 602 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thanks Tom, I have a thing with B&W photography, just love the atmosphere. With software like Photoshop it's very easy to make a nice B&W picture from an avarage colour pic. Wilfred | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 604 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hey Adriaan, just out of curiosity: did you indeed testdrive and buy a WAV 4 today? I was at Edwin's yesterday and he had two of them in stock, one amberburst and one in a quite rare blueburst finish that I also liked, although I prefer the amberburst. Wilfred | ||
| hankster
Member Username: hankster Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2004 |
I really like the look of the new WAV basses, particularly the softer rounded countours. Some of my bandmates refer to my CR4 as my "Home Depot" bass, owing to its resemblance (in the minds of the uninitiated) to a sawn 4 x 4. Tom, thanks for posting the pics. Rick | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1302 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Wilfred, family commitments keep popping up each time I want to go to Hilversum, and Saturday is my only option. I'm planning to go next Saturday. How is the tripod stand holding up? The reviewer in Music Maker was less than impressed. | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 607 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi Adriaan, the stand is fine, no complaints at all. Very stable, but on the other hand, I'm not a rockabilly type of guy who enjoys climbing in his bass. In the Talkbass megethread it was mentioned that the earliest examples were inferior because of a design fault that was corrected by NS very quickly afterwards. BTW: Edwin said he got the last two WAVs the Dutch importer (hmmm, is that even English?) had in stock, one amberburst and one blueburst. They seem to 'go like warm buns over the counter' ;-) so it's a good idea to call before you go to Hilversum... Good luck, Wilfred | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1306 Registered: 6-2002 |
I might just put dibs on the amberburst one ... | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1137 Registered: 9-2002 |
Actually, I'd be REAL interested to try the NS Bass Cello: Same scale as electric bass, Bridge p/u plus the EMGs, wear it on a strap. Anybody tried/seen one of these? Certainly not the 41" scale, but as a companion to my electrics, I just might like it. J o e y | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1309 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm off to Paris (all work, no play) Wednesday and Tuesday. Then a long Friday at the office. But when Saturday comes ... | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1385 Registered: 6-2002 |
Okay, progress report ... I've had the WAV for a couple of weeks now, in the same amberburst finish as pictured by Wilfred. I tried out the blue and amber versions side by side, and preferred the playability and sound of the amber one - lucky for me, as the metallic blue see-through really didn't do it for me. Superficial comments first ... The dark recesses of the peghead are finished poorly, and there are some rough filing marks on the inside - and they're at eye-height - but hey, check out the price tag! The stripey maple is pleasant to look at, but of course it's only a thin laminate. You can only wonder what a genuine piece of flame maple would look like when carved like this, as the top follows the curve of the fingerboard. The ebony fingerboard looks pretty solid - not quite as nice as the pitch black piece (as it was originally) on my Epic, just some small patches that have light streaks, and no knots anywhere on the surface. The action was a little low, and in higher positions the strings were choking on the end of the fingerboard. (Same on both WAVs I tried out.) Joey's golden rules of setup dictate that in this case you first try to straighten out the neck with the trussrod - but for that you need a 3/16" allen key, which was not included in the package (remember the price tag). If you live in a country under the imperial ruler, that probably means a brief visit to the hardware store but here in metric land we have to wait until your friendly music shop owner can find one for you. We have 5 and 6 mm drivers that nearly fit - but the 5 is just too small and the 6 is just too big. For the time being, I raised the bridge - an excercise which revealed that the backplate is an area where NS should really consider improving things. The back plate on the WAV is a single metal plate that is screwed into the body, with two small openings for adjusting the bridge height, and four openings for hooking up true DB strings (the standard strings end just behind the holes that you can see in Wilfred's picture, but you can install 3/4 size DB strings as well). With a screwdriver, I could just reach the bridge height adjustment screws, which were not in line with the openings in the back plate. I nearly removed the backplate, until it dawned on me that you shouldn't unscrew the back plate too often if you ever want to use real DB strings ... With the bridge raised a little, the strings no longer choke and the action is still comfortable. The back of the neck is huge compared to a BG, but you soon adjust. (The top-of-the-range NS has a concave neck profile - sounds like an interesting idea.) The back of the neck is satinized for the most part - it looks a bit odd with the dark finish but the satin feel is very nice. As a side-effect, you absolutely fly when you take up a teeny-weeny bass guitar again ... Rick mentioned "that sensation of the note warming and expanding after it is played is a function of real acoustic basses which doesn't happen on the solid electrics" - I find that a hint of left-hand vibrato (lengthways) can make some of that blooming sound happen, but you soon get into fretless mwah territory if you're not careful. There are Alembic-like amounts of sustain - this IS a big log of wood after all - and there are hints of the deep DB sound, with some sweet spots on the A and D, but the E string seems to lack a bit of fundamental, and the G string is a bit nasal. I'm pretty sure/hoping/guessing that these are weaknesses of the standard strings. When plucking strings, only the "down" position (pizz) of the polarity switch gives you a decent sound. In the "up" position (arco) I can try all sorts of ways of plucking the string - sideways, index and middle finger together, striking down - but it's no use, there's a nice acoustic attack and 'air' to the note but there is little to no sustain, and you can forget about using the G string. Perhaps this setting works for bowing but it's useless for plucking. The pizz position is more BG-like in nature, but you can definitely tell it's not a BG. On the upmarket instruments, they've recently replaced the pizz/arco toggle with a blend control - but those have a pre-amp, and the WAV is passive. The tone control is interesting in that it seems to be a soft-shouldered LPF. And you do need the roll-off for the highs, because this EUB sounds bright beyond reason. Perhaps in a band setting you might turn it up over one third, but in any case the bottom range of the tone control is very useful. On my SWR Workingman's 12, I switch off the tweeter completely, and set the treble control at 9 o'clock, with the tone control on the WAV nearly shut - and still it has enough treble. I'm hoping to try out darker sounding DB strings soon. So far, I'm very happy with the instrument. The tripod stand is holding up fine in my living room, with the bass at a jaunty angle - the E is just leaning over as on a full-bodied DB - but I have no way of telling what life on the road might be (stand-wise). The bass does dance a little on the stand as I play, but it feels perfectly natural. Re Paris - I couldn't help but noticing the policemen armed with machine guns, patroling the Gare du Nord, then two weeks later there are clashes with protesters at the Gare du Nord after the police arrested someone who jumped over a ticket fence. (Message edited by adriaan on April 02, 2007) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4940 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nice report Adriaan! |
