| Author | Message | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 412 Registered: 9-2005 |
I saw a couple testimonials for the 18 inch "Big Ben" speaker on another thread. I'd like to get some testimonials on it, as I'm considering getting one. First, a confession. I've always invested my $ in getting the best instruments... and conversely, I've traditionally had cheap amps. For the past... I guess 15-20 years, I've used a Peavey TNT 130 combo bass amp (with a 17 inch speaker). I always thought of it as cheap, although recently, I took my 8-string to (gag) Guitar Center and played several of their amps/combos/speakers... and was VERY disappointed just how woefully inadequate they were. My old "cheap" Peavey TNT gave a pretty good account of itself -compared to pretty much everything I played there. (And this was with my bass controls set on flat... when I rolled the bass controls to maximum... the amps I played sounded HORRIBLE.) In particular, I found NONE of what I played cut it with the low B string, or came close to the performance of my Peavey. In fact, even the low E sounded crappy. I played through a GK combo first, and it sounded embarrassingly lame. Now all the things I tried were combinations of 10 inch speakers, and I could not help conclude this was part of the problem, and that the large size of my Peavey speaker was part of why it sounds so good. Anyway, what I want is something that is a LOT more powerful than my Peavey. I've found the Peavey just isn't loud/powerful enough to, say, jam with a drummer. I don't play with others as much as I should. But, when I've got together a few times, especially with drummers, it just isn't loud enough. I want something that's capable of double or triple the power/loudness of what my Peavey is capable of. I got the impression the "Big Ben" would fit the bill. I think it's 250 watts -nearly twice the power of my Peavey. Ideally, I'd like a combo, like my Peavey; but my understanding is that I could get the "Big Ben" and link the Peavey to it, and use it as a "head." I know people seem to think that the "Big Ben" works best as part of a "bi-amp" setup. Now my money is pretty limited at this point. I'm not prepared to consider much beyond the approximately $600 that one can get a "Big Ben" for. But I'd like to hear any comments -positive and/or negative- about the "Big Ben." I'd also be interested in any recommendations regarding any other option I might consider. Again, what I'm looking for is something that is capable of double or triple the volume/power/loudness of my Peavey TNT 130 -and something which is relatively inexpensive (by which I mean, less than $1000). I want something that I can play with a drummer, and which will come thru just fine with respects to volume. My Peavey doesn't do that. By the way, as a separate issue, I find the "Guitar Center" to be a joke in many respects. I went there recently looking to see if maybe they had any medium scale 6-string bass strings... and was told they don't carry ANY 6-string bass strings (despite the fact that they SELL 6-string basses...!). They had some decent guitar amps... but I found their bass amp offerings woefully inadequate... it's as if they're not aware of low B strings. Anyway, I've found at least one place where I can get a "Big Ben" new for about $600, and am considering ordering one without actually hearing it bassed on the favorable comments I've heard here... but I'd like a little more info first. I assume it would be roughly twice as loud/powerful as my Peavey. But, I'd also be interested in any alternatives. Remember, I need something that won't have any problem with a low B string... and something under a thousand dollars -the less the better. Thanks in advance for your help/input gang!!! | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 755 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'd be interested in the feedback on the big ben as I've been curious about them for a while. Jazzyvee | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1119 Registered: 9-2002 |
The argument for 10s is roughly along the lines of the area of 2 10s (20"?) is greater than 1-15, etc. I swore by 15s for years . . . and could never hear myself. I'm convinced the multiple 10s make some sort of filter arrangement, and I can hear myself MUCH better. I play a 210 rig plus a single 15 extension cabinet (Eden METRO plus Eden D115XLT) as the METRO was just a bit light on the five's low C's. It's not bi-amped. A TNT (geez, I've had several over the years) would be sorely pressed to drive a BigBen as an extension cabinet. Just not enough juice to begin with. And using the TNT to drive the BigBen alone would gain nothing on the levels you reach now. I'm a big Hartley Peavey fan, loved the old Combo 300's. If you can find a clean Combo 210TX (discontinued) with the white face, jump on it, it would fit the bill. You can always pick up a Peavey single 15 bin to put under it cheap! I too went cheap on amps for years, and I can tell you it REALLY held me back. If I had to do it over again, I'd have bought good basses (not fabulous ones) and bought as much and as good an amp as I possibly could have. I'd rather have a half-assed bass and a great amp than the other way around, I found this out the hard way. Too many nights with ALMOST enough amp to make the gig, farting out, so-so tone, I wasted a lot of time and who knows what gigs I lost because of it? I play every day at home, and the tone makes me WANT to play. Do NOT overlook this aspect: You'll play better if you SOUND better. The short recommendation? Try everything you can, don't even think about anything less than 300-500 watts, and find the tone that suits you. The $600 range may be a tough budget to stay under, you may have to upgrade in steps. Keep the TNT for your favorite amp at home, and if you want a BigBen, I'd suggest putting a Super RedHead on top of it if you like SWR. I'm a big Eden fan, you might want to check out their NEMESIS line, really great gear that's less than the Eden World Tour range. Although it wasn't for me, Fender's Bassman 400 Combo with it's matching 15 cab is a good buy, and the least expensive of these kinds of rigs. I'm crazy about my METRO/D115XLT stack. I'd think with your extended range basses that a 210/horn combo atop a 15 extension cab would be the cat's ass. A little time in stores or Harmony Central amazes me in just how many amps there are now. I can't think of a better time in 30 years of the range of choices that are out there. Oh, and don't feel bad: GC Nashville has a room full of five-string basses and NO strings for them, either! J o e y | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1275 Registered: 6-2002 |
Multiple drivers in a straight line, close to one another, produce the line array effect - the sound gets focused. That's why you see arrays in noisy and reverberant areas, like churches or railways stations. A 2-10 has more focus than 2 single 10 boxes a couple of feet apart. So they're great to make yourself heard. Now to make yourself felt, you add a big bad single 15 or 18 - but like Joey pointed out, your TNT probably can't handle that when you have to turn up the volume. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 459 Registered: 3-2004 |
I blew mine up but at the time I was underpowering it. It was Loaded with a bagend 18. I replaced the speaker with a Carvin 4 ohm rated at 800 watts. It still really booms and produces a full powerful sound. If you would like it, Its yours for $200 plus shipping. I put wheels on the side for east moving. | ||
| hodge
Junior Username: hodge Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2002 |
sorry to butt in ,how about the phil jones stuff, the brief case, and the suitcase, with the extension cab, anybody got any views please. | ||
| hodge
Junior Username: hodge Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2002 |
sorry to butt in, how about the phill jones stuff. the briefcase. 100watts ,the suitcase with extension cab 300watts,anybody any views please. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 756 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Hodge, I bought one of the Phil Jones Briefcase amps last summer and I primarily use it as a practice amp at home. I have to say that I've been very impressed with the clarity, punch and the variety of tones I can get out of just the two 5inch speakers at home. I get good clarity on the bottom end with my low B string. Although it doesn't have a lot of weight behind the note. But then you wouldn't expect that from such a small speaker. As a practice amp it is great and I would imagine a small jam session or a small restaurant gig would be fine. I did plug my mesa boogie 2x10 powerhouse cab into it a while ago and to be honest I wasn't impressed. It didn't seem to be able to deliver a good powerful sound. I would imagine if you had one of PJBass extension cabs it would be a different story. I have used it on one reggae gig last year as a guitar amp playing my Orion guitar clean through it and it was very good but since it's designed for bass the higher frequencies seemed were attenuated. For bass practice amp I can highly recommend it. Jazzyvee | ||
| jags
Member Username: jags Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2006 |
i would say that if you cant get a big ben then do the next best thing. see if you can find a used "triad". thats what i have had forever, its great. it has a 15",a 10" and a horn. as well it covers just about as high as frequency as the 4x10 goliath. just a bit under in the Khz, but, it also covers the big low end your lookin for. check out swr site for specs. and good luck in finding one, you will be pleased!  | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 415 Registered: 9-2005 |
Thanks for the feedback guys. Could still use more on the big ben. Joey, a lot of what you said went over my head 'cause I'm so ignorant about this whole thing... but could you tell me more about the "super redhead" thing and the "210 horn combo above a 15 extension cab". What are these things? Don't assume I know anything. Are they brands/styles/classes? And how much would they run? Any opinions on Carvin Amps? I've always assumed they must be junky. | ||
| jags
Member Username: jags Post Number: 60 Registered: 12-2006 |
hey mark i suggest call some stores that carry some used stuff,or things on consignment, and look for some swr stuff. you shouldnt go wrong with anyhting over 10" cabinets | ||
| beelee
Intermediate Member Username: beelee Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2004 |
Hey Mark, Peavey is some good stuff, my 2nd bass amp was a Mark IV head and a 2-15 Black Widow cabinet, then I got a Combo 300 and a 1-15 BW cabinet, they handled my 5 and 6 string basses as well as my 8 string (octaves) without a problem and never gave me ANY trouble were always reliable. Then I switched to a GK 800 RB and 2 hartke 4-10's and a 1-15 cab ( figured I'd try something new) ran it in Biamp mode, but ended up running it full range ( sounded better that way) the Hartke 1-15 had no balls tho. Then around 1998 I played through an SWR rig in a rehersal studio ( don't remember which model ) and I was sold, loved the sound, so the GK/Hartke rig went bye bye and got a SM-900 and 2 Goliath III 4-10's, then for a 2nd rig a SM-500 and 2 SOB 1-15's, then a Redhead which was sold and then a Super Redhead, a Triad and a Big Ben ( All pre Fnder) just got a Big Bertha 2-15, haven't gigged with it yet,,,,,,I mix and match components depending where I play, if the rig I use at a particular venue sounds good I'll use there again, if not I'll try something else. I used my Super RH ontop of my Big Ben at a particular venue recently, and for almost the entire first set had forgot to turn the speaker on/off switch on the SRH to on and was only coming out of the BB it sounded friggin great !! I was playing my Conklin 7 string and Alembic 6 string through it, I realized and then I turned the 10's in time for "The Real Me".......Whoa !! As for finding strings for multi string extended range basses, I only use juststrings.com, good prices, fast shipping, many brands, I hardly ever go into SA or GC anymore, only maybe every other month to see if there is anything interesting. not much I need anymore BeeLee (Message edited by beelee on February 18, 2007) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1121 Registered: 9-2002 |
For me, Carvin is a non-issue: You trade retail markup (and a dealer and his support) for having to ship it back to the West Coast on YOUR nickel for warranty work. The Big Ben will be no louder than the 15 onboard the TNT now. I'm at a loss to begin to tell you where to learn about amps and cabinets and the basics involved in amplifying your instrument. I can only tell you read everything you can, or go shopping with someone who really knows this stuff. I can not stress to you that we play an instrument that is not the classic, one piece affair like a clarinet or grand piano or violin. Our instrument consists of everything between your fingers and the grill of the speaker cabinet. So it's made up of your bass, cables, strings, amp, and cabinet. Short change any part of this and you WILL hear it. A $25k Alembic is USELESS unplugged. So is a $150.00 Squire. Anyone know where he should begin? I'm dumbfounded. J o e y | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2106 Registered: 7-2004 |
Mark: FWIW, I've been using a Carvin power amp for my P.A. for years. Works fine, no problems. Bill, tgo | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 416 Registered: 9-2005 |
Thanks for all the feedback, guys! Joey... I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dumbfound'ja! Thanks for your thoughts! No sense getting a big ben if it's not any louder than my TNT. | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 217 Registered: 2-2005 |
"I was playing my Conklin 7 string and Alembic 6 string through it, I realized and then I turned the 10's in time for "The Real Me".......Whoa !!" Playing "The Real Me" on a Conklin 7 string or the Alembic? Either way, you're a daredevil.... | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 151 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hi Mark, I have a "Big Ben" sub woofer, and 2 custom made cabs each with 1 JBL K151 high power 18" drivers too. I use the JBL's on my PA, but save the BBen for bass. Compared to the JBL's, the SWR 18 has a hi-fi sound. Really deep and clean, and a LOT of air is moved! Specs say it goes down to ~ 28 dB which covers a low B exceptionally well. The JBL's sound deep, but sorta mushy in comparison. Also, to note, it goes way deeper than most other manufacturers 18"s. Eden's 18 specs around 35 dB, just under a low E string. Curious, cuz Eden most likely made the SWR cab! The Big Ben works really well in a bi-amped crossed over rig, or even a full-range extension cab ( I prefer this set up). I use it with my SWR SM400 amp, full range with an SWR Goliath 4x10 cab. You can stack them with the 18 on the bottom, or set them side-by-side. Either way the cones couple to move air. Try to back up the rear facing ports to a wall or corner for some serious wall-enhanced horn-loading. I have to straighten all my pictures in my music room and down the hall after I play for a bit! Lotta bang for the buck! P.S. It doesn't mind when I tune down to a low A below B. That sounds sick! Try Bass North West for used gear. I've seen SWR Big Ben cabs there in the past. www.bassnw.com Or, Bass Central at www.basscentral.com They have a great selection too. If price would be no object, I would also check out these other cabs too: AccuGroove - El Whappo - 4 way hi-fi cab with 15" woofer, 6" mid, and 2x dome tweeters. One cab does it all for under $2 grand! AccuGroove - Bill Dickens signature cabs. 2 cab set: high end cab and a sub each based on a 2x12" config, but really high SPL rating. Check the website: www.accugroove.com Also, check out the Bagend purple 18" cabs made on the west coast. Sorry, it's late, and I can't remember the model number, but know that Ron W. contributed to the engineering of the preamp / speaker design. I know if you search just our club here, you'll find everything out about them. I'll add to this post later when I can jog my memory. Keep me posted in what you do. I just love your bass, and can't wait to see you get the new custom 6 string! Kris | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 152 Registered: 10-2005 |
FYI http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4470600000 Specs for Big Ben 8 Ohms 400 watts RMS 73 lbs. 100 dB SPL @ 2W1M (-6dB @ 25 Hz & 3 Khz) Pretty impressive! 400 watts handling power, and 100 dB SPL at 2 watts at 1 meter! That's a kicker! Kris | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 420 Registered: 9-2005 |
Thanks for your feedback Kris! One thing I'm curious about: at 400 watts -over 3 times that of my TNT 130- I'd expect it have triple the power and volume of my TNT. But Joey seemed to think it would be about the same -and he's familiar with Peaveys. I'm saying that in case you missed it, 'cause I don't want to... I dunno, wind up trying to get you to argue against him or anything... but... Do you have any thoughts/experience with how it would compare to my Peavey TNT 130? It seems like it SHOULD be 3 times as loud since it has 3 time as many watts? Or is there an error or false reasoning in thinking that? Just wondering... 'cause if it were 3 times as loud/powerful I'd definitly want it. Thanks again for your feedback, everyone. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1291 Registered: 6-2002 |
You need a 400 watt power amp to get the Big Ben to get loud. If you hook the Big Ben up to the TNT, it won't be terribly loud, even if you disconnect the TNT's own speaker. | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 155 Registered: 10-2005 |
Mark, Adriaan has a point, basically. To get 3 times louder than the TNT, you need the square of the 130 watts of the Peavy in power to get the sonic benefit. However, if you can compare the dB per watt per Meter rating of the TNT to the Big Ben, you will see if the efficiency of the speaker- cab combo is equal or not. I am assuming that they are different, but only could be sure if Peavy puts their specs in this format as well. Check your documentation or online to see if you can compare this. A greater efficient speaker /cab will give you more output for the same watts in. The SWR cab WILL handle 3 times the power of the TNT, and as such is capable of a much greater sonic output. Perhaps the Black Widow speaker in the TNT is also capable of a greater power source too. Maybe all you need is a bigger power amp. Food for thought. P.S. I still prefer the Big Ben. It's sound is really hi-tech hi-fi for Bass guitar. Solid and tight. Kris | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 156 Registered: 10-2005 |
Mark, One more point, IF you hook up the Big Ben as an extension speaker to the TNT, you will effectively halve the ohms from 8 to 4 with a big jump in power output. Also, the two speakers set side-by-side or one on top will couple together, and move more air. Yes, the sum is greater than the parts! Again, check the TNT documentation for specs of power output at 4 ohms. Compare that to the standard 8 ohm output to see what gain you will get. You may be able to bring your amp and guitar to the store and test run to see how it sounds. Try it! Kris | ||
| paulman
Advanced Member Username: paulman Post Number: 203 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm not a bass player, but my bass player is! Over the years and many theories, he's settled on 4 B-52 18" folded horn subs powered by a Crown K2. This is for the last 5 notes on the Modulus Q6. Above that he runs through a Peavy Firebass into a Fender Bassman 2x15" cab loaded with Peavy Black Widows. The ground shakes, and the earth rumbles. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 704 Registered: 2-2005 |
What do you play? Back in the old days I never needed more than two Acoustic 301's and two single 15" JBL's. Keith | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2005 |
Roger, That is almost obscene! You play outdoor concerts, or Heavy Metal Earbleed fests? More power to ya, however, Mark wants a heavy weight sound for his low B under a grand! Hence, the name of this thread: "Big Ben" Testimonials.. Mark, I just blasted my ears for a while with my fretless Epic 5er, using my rig: SWR Workingman 12, SM-400, Goliath 4x10, and Big Ben sub. Putting my ear close to each cab can identify just what is coming out of them. The 12 is all mids and highs. The 4x10 is highs, mids, and clean but subdued lows. The Biggun is all about the real low support. I am running it full range with the SM-400 at 400 watts parallel with the Goliath 4x10. I have used the SM-400 and the Goliath on gigs alone. In church and clubs, I have never run out of power. Add the Big Ben, and yes, the walls shake. Here's a picture of the whole mess.  The Big Ben has 2 huge ports on the rear, and really moves air. Let me know if you want me to post a pic of the rear of the cab. Kris | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 422 Registered: 9-2005 |
Thanks a bunch Kris -& everybody else, again, too! Thanks for the compliment on my Europa, earlier, by the way. I can't recall if I've told you before, but yours is one of my favorite Europas. The whole thing is stunning -not just the awesome top, but the mahogany on the back. There's an awesome pair of "coin quilt" Europas in Showcase that are the only Quilted Maple Europas I've ever seen that can contend with yours. Your Europa is an unsurpassed classic. Okay, then... it sounds like I can get triple the volume of my TNT from it... if I have the right... "power amp?"... or what? What do I need? And what is the price range? Is this the "Super Redhead" thing Joey mentioned? All I've ever used is a combo; I'm pretty ignorant. But I do know that things are dichotomized into speakers and amps, is that right? So Big Ben's are speakers, and I'd need an amp, is that right? What kind, and how much? I'd appreciate a short description of price ranges and options. The best cheap thing I could get to go with the Big Ben if I get it -which I'd like to! Thanks again! | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2005 |
Mark, I think the cheapest way to go would be to add just the Big Ben to your TNT 130 as an extension speaker cabinet. You will still be using the TNT as a complete combo, but now you'll have two speakers connected to it. This will give you more acoustic output, and more depth to your sound. Big Ben sounds real good in a full range application such as this. Then later, you can add your choice of many different components: a preamp, an amplifier, or a high range speaker cabinet. I would recommend that you look for a used bass head that combines a preamp with a power amp for the most cost effective approach. There are many choices out there now, and your ears will be the best judge. This of course means that you will have to test drive some amps in a few stores. If you like clean hi-fi sound, you can get an older SWR SM-500 (500 watts mono or 250 watts stereo)with built-in crossover, tube preamp and solid state power amp. This amp is real light, 2 rack space high, has a 5 band graphic EQ, effect loop, direct out, and Aural enhancer circuit. It replaced the SM-400 (400 watt) amp I own. They can be found used for around $800. give or take a few bucks. SWR also made an SM-900 which has 2 preamp channels, more power output, and conventional rotary semi-parametric EQ preamps instead of the graphic EQ of the SM-400 & SM-500 amps. Expect to pay a little more for this amp on the used market. The sound of the SWR is high tech, refined, clean and powerful. Very little background hiss. The tube preamp is really warm which is a good thing with an Alembic. I have never heard any Bass sound bad through an SWR amp. However, it is not the only choice. EBS makes a really nice amp. Eden, Trace Elliot, Ashdown, etc. Even Ampeg makes a few great amps that really rock. Once you add a Bass head to the Big Ben, you will probably want to look into a high range cabinet to satisfy all the other strings you play. A good cabinet to try would be a 4x10 design (Example: SWR Goliath) or even a 2x10 for ease of travel. Some 1x12 cabs are really nice too, and can fit the bill nicely. Bergantino makes a 3x12 cab that is really clean. Again, lots of choices. If you want to go truly "Component", then look into seperate preamps and power amps. An Alembic F1-X or SF-2 can be used with a power amp as a great rig. Many threads here in the club list a lot of players setups and you can get dizzy reading about them. I think you can take it a step at a time and really have fun too. I know that you poo-pooed GC earlier, but I've seen some really great used gear deals there. And the price on the tag is negotiable somewhat too. So haggle! Kris | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 423 Registered: 9-2005 |
Wow, thanks for the detailed response! That was very helpful. Lotta info dere! I'm going to very seriously consider getting a Big Ben!!! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1129 Registered: 9-2002 |
Fellas . . . . geez, a TNT is little more than a practice amp, or certainly for low to low-medium volume gigs. It's got all it can to do to drive itself, much less hook up a deep breathing cabinet like a Big Ben. I've owned several over the years, and this just AIN'T the rig to use a Big Ben as an extension cab. No disrespect, but I can't imagine hooking up a Big Ben to ANYBODY's 130 watt amp as an extension cabinet. Throwing around a term like 'three times as loud' is implying HUGE gains in output. TWICE as loud is usually assumed to bring a doubling of output power (130w x 2 = 260w)for a 3db gain in output; tripling would imply 3x, or 390w and a 6db gain, going by the rule of thumb that every 3db of gain is a practical doubling of power. Now a TNT might make 260 watts with the right extension cabinet (IF it loads down to two ohms and the internal speaker and the BB are both 4ohms each) but there's no headroom left. And yes you will pickup 2 or 3db in having two cabinets instead of one. But this is just asking a small amp to do a bigger amp's work. After years of frustration, I can tell you bass is absolutely the LAST instrument you want to play with barely enough amp: For all those low notes to sound clean and full and to bloom under your fingers requires lots of reserve power in the amp. Bass is the ultimate expression of 'big amps turned up to 3'; 'little amps turned up to 9.5' sounds so poorly thin in comparison. I gigged for 5 years with a 200w Yamaha head with a pair of single 15 cabs: I look back on it as torture. If you've just got to have it, get it, and later get a head in the 300 - 500w range if you have any idea you're going to gig with that cabinet. There are lots of great deals on all kinds of gear: Anybody that's playing custom, multi-string ALEMBICs deserves better than this if you REALLY want to hear what you paid for. J o e y | ||
| paulman
Advanced Member Username: paulman Post Number: 206 Registered: 2-2005 |
I love reading this topic! It's great to see so many ideas and uses. To answer the "obscene" comment (which I love) we are a Original band with many influences (blues, jam, funk, folk, rock) attempting to get the most sound using the point/source idea (all instrument through their own amplifications system) and so far it's been phenomenally successful. If you want to hear some of what we are doing, the site is www.myspace.com/crowdeffect (hope the self promotion is ok) The bass player is attempting to effciently (I know, moving the cabs isn't effcient but he wants it, so he moves them) to get the lower bass freq's launched correctly. Dealing with Meyer sound and other techs the effient movement of air became the largest factor he could identify to accurately reproduce the last 5 notes of the 6 string bass. The goal is of course ultra clean sound. Not to makes your ears bleed, but to attain a nice level with lots of headroom and dynamics. Wait til our next experiment takes place, I'll be sure to let you know. We are trying to go below the low bass B to the subsonic ranges. Prototypes are almost done and it's looking (and feeling) good | ||
| jags
Member Username: jags Post Number: 87 Registered: 12-2006 |
yup i would say one piece at a time. grab your big ben first.(i say not to overlook a triad,1x15,1x10,plus a horn,it would be great next to ben!). dont forget power is more or less the same,so the longer you can wait on that,the better deal you should get.if you have an alembic rack or two,then i say just look for the cheapest tube power available. you'll have enough almebic elctronics to make any tube power amp sound killer. trust me there | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 159 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hey Joey, Your points are well taken. I agree that a big power amp is best. But I beg to differ with you about how effective it would be running the Big Ben with the TNT amp. I frequently use my SWR Workingman 12 combo (160 watts) to run the Big Ben as extension, and it really puts out. The output compared to the 12 in the combo alone is significantly greater. Sorry, I have never measured it, but my ears feel a big difference. Also, remember, Marks' initial intentions: To support the low end for under $600 bucks. He has been using only his TNT amp to play, so ANY additional cab should make a difference. I have confidence in the Big Ben cab. It won't be a bad investment. Kris | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 426 Registered: 9-2005 |
Joey, Kris, John, Paul, and all you other guys, thanks again so much for you comments and help. I really appreciate it. From what I've heard, I've concluded 3 things. Please correct me if these conclusions are incorrect. (1) The Big Ben IS a high-quality, high performance speaker that would, with additional components, be much more powerful and LOUD than my Peavey TNT... double or triple the power/volume. (2) I should be able to get it and use it with my TNT and get at least SOME noticable increase in volume/power. (3) If/when I do get an "amp" or "head"... that's what I'd need, right?... it would be a step or two up in power and performance from my Peavey TNT. If these conclusions are correct, I'm going to get the Big Ben. At this point, I like to know what the starting price (lowest price) would be for the amp/"head" component needed to really power up the Big Ben to it's maximum volume. What would be the lowest price I could expect to easily purchase that component for? $500? $1000? I don't know. Could I use the famed Alembic rackmount -is it the "FB2?"- to power the Big Ben? Unless I get discouraged, I'm probably gonna try and get that Big Ben soon. HOWEVER... if there were any REALLY GOOD alternative... something that TOTALLY DOES JUSTICE TO THE LOW B STRING... that's also under $1000 (the less the better) I'd be interested in considering it. But it would have to be a lot better than the Big Ben -if it were more than the $600 or so I can get a Big Ben for. The Big Ben seems to have a very solid reputation as a low-cost/high performance/volume speaker... something that would (with additional needed components) be MUCH more powerful & LOUD than my Peavey, and something that could play along with drums and still be heard. This is why I want it. Thanks again, all you guys. I always try to help out with others when they ask for information I'm knowledgable about, and I sure appreciate everyone doing the same for me with my areas of ignorance!!! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4817 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know if any of the following will be helpful to you. - The Big Ben is essentially a subwoofer. I don't think you would want to use it by itself. My guess is that ideally you would use this cab as part of biamped rig with a crossover. - The F-2B is a preamp. It will not drive a speaker cab. If you wanted to use an F-2B you would also have to have a power amp. - A "head" is a preamp and power amp in one unit. - SWR rates the Big Ben at 400 watts at 8 ohms. It will take, and want, a lot of power. I think my suggestion at this point is that you should continue researching rigs and put off making a decision. | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2005 |
Mark, You're on the right track. (1) Correct. (2) Correct. (3) Correct, and you have so many choices, that you can't go wrong. A really good idea here would be to replace the TNT with a high quality high power combo that would be powerfull enough to stack on top of the Big Ben for loud performances, and as a stand alone for practice, studio, or intimate gigs. SWR is only one company of many that makes a perfect match to the sub. Here's two: Super Red Head 350 watts with 2x10's and horn (List $2,071.41) http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4420100000 The Black Beauty: 350 watts with 1x 15 and Horn (List $1,571.41) http://www.swrsound.com/products/search.php?partno=4420300000 The Black Beauty would sound most similar to the TNT being a 1x15 cab, but the preamps in either combo here are markedly different than the TNT. I once saw a used Super Red head at GC for around $1,600.00. I was very tempted. Don't get me wrong, SWR is not your only choice. There are sooo many amps to choose from. I just happen to like the "SWR" sound. Eden makes some killer combos too. Etc, etc, the list goes on. IF you want an Alembic preamp like the F2B, you will need a seperate power amplifier. QSC, Crown, AB, Yamaha, etc., etc. Again, many choices. To go this route, you will also need a high frequency speaker cabinet. A 2x10, or 1x15, or 1x12, or any other combination. Again, many choices. Your ear will need to do the final selecting. But if you do this in steps, you can get one item at a time and add to your rig with big happy grins at each new addition. You will have fun! I know it! Kris | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2005 |
Dave, My Big Ben is run full range next to or under my Goliath 4x10 cab. For an 18", it really does have some mid frequency character. My JBL K151 18"'s absolutely need to be crossed over at around 400 hz cuz there ain't nothin above that but mush. The Big Ben is really a high fidelity loudspeaker. I really get excited about it, and don't often play without it. I can't imagine anything close to it when considering "Bang-for-buck". IMO, Mark just can't lose investing in one. It will stay with him for many happy years. Kris | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4818 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kris; you have one and I don't. So I think your opinion here carries more weight than mine. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 428 Registered: 9-2005 |
Well, I appreciate your adding your thoughts, regardless, Dave. Thanks! | ||
| paulman
Advanced Member Username: paulman Post Number: 212 Registered: 2-2005 |
Form what I've read the Big Ben is a fine sub, really fine. However keep in mind, one 18" generally is not enough cone/speaker to move the appropriate amount of air to launch the low B properly. At that point it's a gear/spec head thing, and most people will probobly not even notice (at least not until they have to hold their beer glasses on the table to keep them from vibrating off). | ||
| willride3
Junior Username: willride3 Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2005 |
I've got to get in on this. I once used a large Peavey 18 sub under a 4-10 driven by a Peavey Megabass Bi-Amp with a Peavey bass. In a large room or theater, that is the stuff. But, with my Alembic 5, I have had great success with an Ashdown ABM C-115 500 with a 2-10 or single 15 extension cabinet if needed. The 500 watts is good to have for plenty of thump. Also, the Ashdown has a sub out signal that you send to an amp spkr. I use an old Acoustic 2-12 powered bottom for the real lows. WOW. And when I'm in the mood, I will use an Ampeg Pro 4-10 cabinet loaded with Eminence Pro Kappas driven by a very old Alembic F2B and a new Carvin 900 watt PA amp. It will really get your sound out there in a large room or outdoors as well. Years of looking and trying things has been fun. Good Hunting. willride3 |
