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Archive through March 28, 2007olieoliver65 3-28-07  9:59 am
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neyman
Junior
Username: neyman

Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:24 am:   Edit Post

I got introduced to Alembics by...

John Panozzo of STYX!

His ebony-faced Scorpion is still my dream bass.
alembic_doctor
Advanced Member
Username: alembic_doctor

Post Number: 247
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:27 pm:   Edit Post

OK. Perhaps I was misunderstood. I did not say that any of this was bad. I only said that I find it interesting. Perhaps there is some re-training camp for people that don't think nice things about deadheads. Or are percieved to be knocking deadheads.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2252
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit Post

Doc:

As a matter of fact there is. Camp is this Saturday in Northern California. Your place is being held. Prepare for a Dead jam! (among other things). LOL

Bill, tgo
alembic_doctor
Advanced Member
Username: alembic_doctor

Post Number: 248
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 3:20 pm:   Edit Post

Bill: That is assuming I have the right directions of course.

Ok. To tell the truth, I love dead type jam sessions. I really get into a groove. I even like listenng to a lot of them too. As evidenced by the fact that I really dig Phish. All I'm saying is that I am not a Dead Head, and I was never really heard a recording (bootleg or otherwise)that I liked. My favorite Jam Bands are Phish, Allman Brothers, Gov't Mule. Rare Earth had some really good jams on their live stuff too. Same with Johnny & Edgar Winter. Anyone have the White Trash "Roadwork" Album. Smokin Jams on that.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2254
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 4:41 pm:   Edit Post

Doc:

Try "Live Dead" (recorded by Ron W. hisself)

'nuff said.

Bill, tgo
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 4923
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:01 pm:   Edit Post

I really like the "sound" of the Blues For Allah studio album. And the first song on the album, Help on the Way / Slipknot, is just a great tune. I think it's a very nice studio recording of a very nice tune; an enjoyable listening experience!
rraymond
Advanced Member
Username: rraymond

Post Number: 214
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:07 pm:   Edit Post

Oww! "Roadwork," what a smokin' album. Randy Jo Hobbs was the man! He was one of my favorite bass players when I first started playing. My folks had one of those mid-sixties Zenith stereo cabinet "piece of furniture" jobs that was about five feet long. I used to lay under it to get better bass. One day my mom, who was a piano teacher / church music director, heard me listening to that album and asked who it was. "Edger Winter's White Trash!" I replied. "Certainly sounds like it," she snorted.

Reid
laytonco
Member
Username: laytonco

Post Number: 65
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit Post

Yes indeedy deedy doo! Through the Dead I found you! My bands are Juba Juba, Colorado Rain, and occasionally Shakin' Bones. Those names don't give it away do they?

Gil
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 6:19 pm:   Edit Post

Wish I could've made "camp" this year Bill. Looks like you guys are going to have a great time. Maybe next year.
alembic_doctor
Advanced Member
Username: alembic_doctor

Post Number: 249
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 8:19 pm:   Edit Post

rraymond: My dad actually turned me on to that album. We used to (ahem) skip Church once in awhile and go to record shows in Houston. We'd go in while the guys were still loading in their wares(befare the admission booth was set up thereby getting in for free) and pick through their stuff. I think we were usually done shopping by the time the show would open up. We'd take home our treasures. Fire up the BBQ. Throw some vinyl on the spinning platter and basque in the sounds of our new found treasures. Anyway, he picked up the Roadwork album one day and popped it on the table. I was a budding trombone player at the time and he was raving about the horn section on the album. The sax player was hitting some notes I never knew a sax could do. And he had some serious sustain to boot. Dad this guy was particularly awesome because he played a really hard reed. Maybe a 4 or 5 or something like that.

aaahhh. good times. Sunday afternoon listening to vinyl.

Doc "the thread hijacker"
alembic_doctor
Advanced Member
Username: alembic_doctor

Post Number: 250
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 8:43 pm:   Edit Post

Bill: I just went to Amazon and purchased "Live/Dead" I'll report my findings upon "further" investigation.

And just so there are no illusions about my playing this weekend, I do not know any dead tunes at all.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2256
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post

ahh, but you can learn!!!!! Seriously though, one of the more refreshing aspects of the Dead catalog is the breadth of music styles covered. Blues, Country, Folk, R&B, Rock 'n Roll, New Orleans, Space, and more. Even the almost baroque sound of "China Doll", complete with Harpsichord! The Dead catalog is truly an homage to Americana.

Bill, tgo

P.S., don't worry, I play other stuff besides the Dead. Ever hear of The New Riders or JGB? hehehehe
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 1427
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit Post

here is a handy little tidbit
i saw this on either archive;s site

the most downloaded show is rfk 6/10/73
last time i looked over 150,000 people have it
thats just on their site
i was at that show....
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 1428
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:43 pm:   Edit Post

like the dead?
download 6/10/73
rraymond
Advanced Member
Username: rraymond

Post Number: 216
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 4:36 am:   Edit Post

Doc, those sound like some great Sunday afternoons! The sax guy was Jon Smith, and he went on to play with Albert Collins. A killer player.

Meandering back on track: I'm a Stanley guy, however, I have played two Dead songs, "Bertha," and "Friend of the Devil," and I saw their last two shows in Portland, OR in May '95. They were great!

Reid
kenbass4
Advanced Member
Username: kenbass4

Post Number: 243
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 7:07 am:   Edit Post

Hey, Bill.

I'll learn some Dead if you can do "Roundabout"
:-)

(Back to your regularly scheduled thread)
grateful
Intermediate Member
Username: grateful

Post Number: 188
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 5:34 am:   Edit Post

IMHO, the three things that make the Dead utterly unique (that no-one else has mentioned here) are:

Dynamics - from whisper-quiet to very loud (though always clean as Bill has stated)

Space - there's a lot of (milliseconds of) silence in Dead music.

Phrasing - especially Jerry's. He sure could mix the notes up.

Mark
paulman
Advanced Member
Username: paulman

Post Number: 229
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 8:21 am:   Edit Post

Hi I'm Roger, and I'm a Deadhead.

I came to Alembic through the Grateful Dead.

I have never heard another band with such spontenaity or passion. The ability for ALL of them to turn on a dime improvisationally like a school of fish, or a flock of birds sends me to meditation every time. Stoned, or not.

And I always end up asking "Damn, how did they DO that?" and then I end up saying "was that my exit I just passed?"
dibolosi
Member
Username: dibolosi

Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post

I came to Alembic through John Entwistle, 1979 movie The Kids Are Alright. I remember saying to myself "what the $@&$!@ is that thing" (paraphrased) during the Baba O'Reilly cut.

I was a very impressionable 17 year old
inthelows
Advanced Member
Username: inthelows

Post Number: 367
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post

The Dead. Definately! Stanley and the Brown Bass!
Jack with#1 and the Ox. All had an early influence. Firstly was by touch. I had bought a 5-string Ric and at the store got my hands on a maple Spoiler. That as has been said many times..
that was all she wrote. Nice touch. amazing sound. I had to have one.
The Dead played so many different venues, I've been to many. The sound projection was always amzing.
Answering the original question is yes to both and Saint Stevens is still one of my fav's to play. Love the changes.
NLP

(Message edited by inthelows on March 30, 2007)
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 4928
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 5:10 pm:   Edit Post

Bill plays both kinds of music, Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Band.
elwoodblue
Intermediate Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 123
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 9:44 pm:   Edit Post

grateful...
I mentioned the 'thick air',(trying not to sound 'air'ogant)(ouch..sorry)...
... I suppose that could be interpreted as a delightfully smoky venue;
tho they could sure make silence charged with electricity ,... yum,i miss that

elwood
grateful
Intermediate Member
Username: grateful

Post Number: 189
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 3:05 am:   Edit Post

Sorry Elwood, I thought you were referring to the "colored silence" in Anthem of the Sun!

Mark
elwoodblue
Intermediate Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 124
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 5:06 am:   Edit Post

Grateful,your right...
I'm always stoned,sacrificing clarity for creativity at times.
(time to try these new g12-m's)...6 am I wonder if my nieghbors will notice.
pardon my wake of confusion
: )
jaysimon
Junior
Username: jaysimon

Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit Post

I was introduced to the Alembic web site through a friend. ('Man, you have to check this bass out')

I knew a little about Jerry's guitars, but had limited knowledge of Alembic. Once I began to browse the site I learned lots, and began to lust after an Alembic of my own.

Luckily enough, I now get to settle down with a Skylark, in coco bolo no less. Life is good.
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 1193
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 3:44 am:   Edit Post

Reid,
My first concert was in Dec 1969 with the headliner being Johnny Winter. During his set he introduced his little brother Edgar. What a great experience. The rest of the show was Nazareth and Grand Funk Railroad.

And to keep things on track, someone mentioned Anthem of the Sun. That album showed up in my possesion somehow, no idea where it came from. I remember thinking man, this is strange but very compelling. How can you not like a song called New Potato Crosseyed Caboose?
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2280
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 6:59 am:   Edit Post

Sam:

Close. The songs on Anthem include "New Potato Caboose" and another called "Born Cross-Eyed". For total name weirdness, there is the suite entitled: "That's It For The Other One: / Cryptical Envelopment / Quadlibet For Tender Feet / The Faster We Go, The Rounder We Get / We Leave The Castle".

Bill, tgo
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 1194
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 8:30 am:   Edit Post

Bill
Wasn't there a song on there about an alligator also? It's hard to think back almost 40 years.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2283
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 9:58 am:   Edit Post

Sam:

Alligator it was! Here's the list of songs on Anthem:

That's It For The Other One
I. Cryptical Envelopment (Garcia)
II. Quadlibet For Tender Feet (Weir)
III. The Faster We Go, The Rounder We Get (The Grateful Dead)
IV. We Leave The Castle (The Grateful Dead)

New Potato Caboose (Lesh/Petersen)

Born Cross-Eyed (Weir)

Alligator (Lesh/McKernan/Hunter)

Caution (Do Not Stop On Tracks) (McKernan)

You should listen to Anthem again - 40 years is too long!

Bill, tgo
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 1130
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit Post

A week's too long Bill ;-)

Graeme
alembic_doctor
Advanced Member
Username: alembic_doctor

Post Number: 258
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 6:41 pm:   Edit Post

Bill: I got Live/Dead. I have thoroughly scrutinized it. I like the sound. I like the musicianship. I like the music. But, the vocals just kill me. I think I may be a perfectionist when it comes to vocals. I can't stand when vocals are out of tune. Drives me nuts.
crgaston
Advanced Member
Username: crgaston

Post Number: 366
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 8:35 pm:   Edit Post

Well, it's no mystery the Dead weren't that great when it came to singing. Individually, they may have had their moments, but for the most part, you just had to live through the verses to get to the jams. Hey, they provide a natural place to get another beer or whatever. Lyrics were ofen brilliant, though, thanks to Robert Hunter and John Barlow.

Oh, and phylo, an alternate version for your joke is...

How many Deadheads does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None, they all screw in the back of VW Microbusses.
cozmik_cowboy
Intermediate Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 131
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:32 am:   Edit Post

OK, Doc, you've got a good start - next you need American Beauty and/or Workingman's Dead, then Europe '72. The first 2 are the the boys finally figuring out the studio, and are chock full of exquisitely crafted songs, and the the last combines that with the improvizational majesty of Live/Dead - and the vocals on all 3 are much better that L/D; AB & WMD due to care in the studio, E '72 I guess they were just on those nights (I have concert tapes of other shows from that tour that don't sound that good) - and on E '72 you get 5-part harmony! But, even at their best, nobody will mistake them for trained voices with perfect pitch (well, I think Lesh has it, but you wouldn't know from his singing...) Objectively, can I say any of them sing as well as, say, Peter Cetera or Brad Delp? No. Would I listen to Cetera or Delp instaed of them? Only if you chained me down and forced me. I can't explain it, but I enjoy their singing, such as it is.

Peter
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 1408
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:50 am:   Edit Post

Peter, don't expect perfect pitch to have any effect on how well somebody can sing - you really don't want to hear me sing.
grateful
Intermediate Member
Username: grateful

Post Number: 195
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:08 am:   Edit Post

Peter, the vocals on Europe 72 were overdubbed: I have acquired a copy of the last night at the Lyceum featuring Truckin' and Morning Dew from E72 and the vocals are different (less good!) But hearing Truckin'>The Other One>Morning Dew>The Other One makes up for the less good vocals. IMHO, the Dead peaked in 73-74 when Jerry was playing his Alembic through the Alembic PA. Dick's Picks Vols 1, 12, 14 and 19 are all from this era and I prefer them to E72.

Mark
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2311
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:16 am:   Edit Post

Doc:

Great improv playing, ain't it? Ditto on all the above comments re: vocals. If you want good vocals, then Workingman's Dead and American Beauty it is. The boys were hanging out with CS&N during this period and the vocal influence really shows on these albums. One other point: for me, at least, there are some singers whose gift is not that of a beautiful sounding voice but, rather, their gift is the indescribable ability to convey emotion and feeling as they sing. Perhaps the finest example of this phenomenon is Bob Dylan. IMHO, Jerry Garcia was another great shining light in this category. And I've always loved Pigpen singing the blues. Watch out or we'll make a Deadhead out of you yet! hehehehehe

Bill, tgo

(Message edited by lbpesq on April 17, 2007)
kmh364
Senior Member
Username: kmh364

Post Number: 2122
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:36 am:   Edit Post

So far, I prefer all of the "other" both unofficial/official recordings of the Europe '72 tour, my fave to date is the "Rockin' The Rhein" release. The "Steppin' Out" from the English leg is decent, as is the "other" German release "Hundred Year Hall".

IMHO, they (i.e., GD, Inc.)need to make good on the promise of a COMPLETE collection of ALL (Alembic et al) documented performances of that tour, warts and all.
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 1251
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post

Wow, I always felt that Bob Dylanís vocals were totally void of emotion. I feel his ability to relay his feelings lives in his lyrics.

Now if want emotion, try Joe Cocker, Stevie Wonder, Aretha Franklin or Ray Charles.

Of course this is just my opinion. Neither right nor wrong just an opinion.
chuck
Intermediate Member
Username: chuck

Post Number: 105
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:57 am:   Edit Post

Olie. The same could be said for one of my favorites,Kris Kristofferson.
Chuck
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 8:14 am:   Edit Post

Very true Chuck, likewise with Willie Nelson. Crazy is a great song but I'm sure glad Patsy Cline sang it for him.

Congrats to Kris too for the award last night.
cozmik_cowboy
Intermediate Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 132
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit Post

Adriaan - now that you mention it, I recall that a piano/harpsichord player I dated when the world was young made a point of differentiating her perfect pitch from her perfect ear - my bad.

Mark - I knew there was some dubbing, but never knew what - though I guess it makes sense that if you're dubbing a Dead performance, you'd start w/the vocals.

I also love Dylan's singing - and Neil Young, and Kristofferson, and all those 90-year-old blues and bluegrass and old-timey cats that still do it, wavering but real. What can I say? It does it for me more than polish does.

Peter
byoung
Senior Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 605
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:58 pm:   Edit Post

I thought perfect pitch was tossing a banjo in the wastebasket, and not hitting the sides.

:-)
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 742
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 6:14 pm:   Edit Post

I used to play off and on with a woman in the Chicago area who had perfect pitch. She taught at one of the colleges. She would notice very quickly when someone was not on pitch when we played. The surprising thing is she liked Dylan and his singing voice a lot. Even though he was not always on pitch she said his technique (or lack of) was perfect for the song. Go figure.

Keith
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 1410
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 5:15 am:   Edit Post

Bradley, the way I see it the banjo needs to miss the waste basket completely. ;-)

Anyway - my wife doesn't have perfect pitch, but when we're listening to any music where a vocalist or instrumentalist is off-pitch, we both cringe - at least if the music is of the kind where pitch goes before expression.

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