| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Advanced Member Username: palembic Post Number: 365 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brothers and Sisters I should post this at the thread "what the bass-player do" but (***sigh***) that thread seems to be closed. I heard this great statement about bass-players two weeks ago: "bass-players make the best producers! They're the only who knows how to leave things out of a song and keep the essentials. Or in other words: they are the only musicians who knows how to add things to the song to reinforce the essentials". Now ...isn't that a nice thought? So don't cry, there is a great future for you all! Paul - the bad one | ||
| Rami Sourour (rami)
Intermediate Member Username: rami Post Number: 158 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's a good one Paul. I think another way of putting it is that we're the liason between the melody and the percussion. The Bass player brings all the other instruments together. In fact, the Bass player can substitute for any melodic or percussive instrument. We're actually the most essential instrument in the band. They may not always notice us, but they sure notice when we're not there! | ||
| Jonathan Johnstone (stoney)
Intermediate Member Username: stoney Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2002 |
Well said Rami | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Advanced Member Username: palembic Post Number: 366 Registered: 9-2002 |
YES!!! A big hand for Brother Rami! My (upright) teacher once said: "you may never hear the bass, you may only miss it when it's not there!" | ||
| Spose (spose)
Junior Username: spose Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2002 |
A good bass player is a multi-tasker. As Rami said, he or she is the catalyst between the guitars and drums. As a bass player, I can support the percussion, and or support and join the guitars in the melody, as well as bring my own lead lines or melody to the table. As well, the bass player that understands complex or multi-amp/x-over type setups, will also understand the PA and sound systems as well. This is why you find a lot of bass players doubling on sound reinforcement. A great bass rig is half of a great PA rig! sort of.... yes, we are overlooked by most...I've played with a lot of really good guitar players don't really understand the role of bass, but they do know they want it behind them, and they know when it's not there  | ||
| Mica Wickersham (mica)
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 806 Registered: 6-2000 |
If you're being overlooked, it probably means you're doing something right. Musical restraint is one of the hardest talents to master, and I think a great asset for a producer. (Sorry about the thread closing, I'm trying to determine the right limits for the auto archiving still.) | ||
| Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)
Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 93 Registered: 7-2002 |
I have to reiterate my mantra, "There's no money above the 5th fret" You don't have to take that literally but, there is a lot of truth to that as a working bass player. Like Rami said, we are the catalyst between the rhythm and the harmony in most musical situations. I've been doing a lot acoustic duo stuff recently (acoustic guitar and upright bass) because the presence of a bass adds so much more color and warmth to a song as opposed to the usual 2 guitar duos we've been seeing here in Boston as of late. As far as the producer role goes, it's very simple. We as bass players have to listen to what everyone else is doing in order to formulate what we are going to play on a song, whether it be a straight eighth groove or something more melodic. We have to listen to the rhythm(drums or percussion), the harmony(guitar/piano) and the melody. All of these factors have a say in what we are going to play. This is why Paul McCartney used to put his bass line down LAST on the Beatles stuff, he wanted to hear what was going on first. This is why we have become by default good producers, because we have to listen to the BIG PICTURE! Even if it means playing the most simplest part after all is said and done. Sometimes just playing whole notes adds just the right amount of "warmth and color" to a song. As far as being technically savy towards gear and such, I think we're all a bit of knob-tweakers as Brother Paul (the bad one) puts it. I do have another saying though, "never give a bass player enough knobs to screw up their sound". LOL!!! Now go practice your scales and arpeggios!!! Peace - Dino (bptfo) | ||
| Paul Ellsworth (elzie)
Member Username: elzie Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2002 |
So this would make us rhythmic ambassadors! Now where did I put my resume......... Paul (the good one, when I'm sleeping!) (Message edited by elzie on April 01, 2003) | ||
| Joey Wilson (bigredbass)
Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2002 |
I've often thought that the following is the greatest irony in my playing, and maybe yours as well: As a young player, it was so important to play as many notes and and hot licks as humanly possible. As an older player with lots of experience, now I find that the most daunting skill is what to leave out. 'What a long, strange trip it's been !' Joey | ||
| John Stefancik (jet_powers)
New Username: jet_powers Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2003 |
As Joey pointed out... A young player plays all those notes because he can. An experienced player knows when not to play. This makes the eventual barrage of notes that have been building up in us and we all have to play at some point in the course of an evening much more powerful and effective. A good artist knows when to stop. John | ||
| Duncan Muller (muller1007)
Junior Username: muller1007 Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2002 |
In this respect, check out James Taylor "Live at the Beacon Theatre" with Jimmy Johnson on bass. This will totally confirm the opinion that it takes a great bass player to completely blend into the music, without being on the foreground. Jimmy is there without being there. That is exactly why I greatly admire Jimmy Johnson. He totally understands the role of the bass player. Duncan | ||
| Simon Taylor (staylor)
Junior Username: staylor Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2002 |
Not to be contrary, but I have to add that music is music -- above the 5th-fret, below the 5th-fret, with many notes or few, loud or soft, slap, pick, tap, plunk, crashing through the drums . . . I think Jimmy Johnson is awesome for exactly the reason that you point out, Duncan -- the man knows how to lay down an incredible groove w/o stepping all over everything. Blows me away, and is EXACTLY what works for James Taylor's stuff (which I love!!). And I totally agree w/ the general sentiment that a better player knows when not to play, and someone who's not so good could often sound better by just paying more attention to their fellow musicians and less attention to how many notes they can fit into the next bar or two. But I think folks can get little dogmatic about this type of stuff sometimes too. I like the bigger picture of music; a picture that is a little more experimental and open and pays less homage to one particular genre or another. I know on the average night I probably play too many notes here or there, and I strive constantly to be self-critical and find that more elegant, artistic expression of my ideas. IMHO though, music is not a platonic ideal that we can only hope to find. Music is a place, a space, a conversation, an amazing auditory experience of intellectual and emotive play-centers; music comes from w/in us. Learning to "speak" a musical language, "say" beautiful things and "tell" captivating stories is not a skill that can be reduced, boxed up and sold. There are definitely many techniques for focussing and refining our musical speech, but in the end ". . . a man must move foward from where he stands." In other words, you might get really good by practicing all the right techniques, playing all the right notes, and learning to not play a lot of "right" notes, but you won't ever be your own master w/o walking the road your own mind and body generate in front of you. A great example is a local drummer here in Juneau (who shall remain nameless to protect the innocent). He is by far one of the best drummers I've ever worked with. He's tight and groovy, he listens incredibly and he WILL make you sound like a better musician because of just how well he can track your pocket. But the truth is, even his best friend will tell you, "man, he is sooo great! I just wish that he'd open up a little; just be a little more raw occaisionally -- you can tell the potential energy is in him, but he just won't let it out!". So, IMHO, he's a great drummer but, for whatever reason, I don't really think he's his own master on the drums, and if you ain't your own master, you're no master. So, to draw this rambling to a close, it's important to remember that, although there are a lot of great methods for becoming a better musician, you can't be your own musical master w/o knowing your own musical mind. Technique and methodology is a double edged sword; sometimes it shows you your road, and sometimes it hides it from you. The bass-player, like all musicians, has to walk his/her own road and find the zen of his/her own musical spirit. For a great take on all this, I highly recommend "Free-Play: Improvisation in Life and Art" by Stephen Nachmanovitch (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874776317/qid=1049308944/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-6062608-9059006) | ||
| Charles "David" Tichenor (alembic76407)
Intermediate Member Username: alembic76407 Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2002 |
with a amp as big as mine, you can he heard and felt, I don't play alot of notes, but the ones I do play, can cause damage. on one gig the bar tender from next door came over and said "if another #$%^&*@ glass falls off the bar I'm going to sue you" (sometimes I crack my self up) David (the loud one) 125db or bust | ||
| David Burgess (dnburgess)
Junior Username: dnburgess Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2003 |
David Tichenor - tell us more about your monster rig. | ||
| John Stefancik (jet_powers)
New Username: jet_powers Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2003 |
David (the loud one) makes a valid point. Bass should be felt as well as heard. I too like a rig that moves air molecules. Let's face it, with bass it's all about moving air. I don't wish to depend on a usually non existant sound man or on the PA mains. So my main rig is a 6-12 cab w/ horn and my alternate rig (the little one) is a 2-15 and a 4-10 powered by a 500W amp. It's not very often I am asked to turn up though I have never been threatened with litigation. Yet. John | ||
| Charles "David" Tichenor (alembic76407)
Intermediate Member Username: alembic76407 Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2002 |
part of my rig can be seen in the "owning an alembic" down at the bottom "the Weather machine, now there are 4-15s 4-12s and I'm adding 4-8s for the highs, two way electronic crossover, the Mesa/Boogie 400+ will power the 8s with a passive crossover, and the half of a Peavey 2000 will push the 12s and the other half will push the 15s. I have to admit it's abit overkill for a country/rock band, but I'm ready for anything!!!! however I'm getting older and most the time I just use 1 or 2-15s and 2-10 Mesa/Boogie bass moniter with my Boogie 400+, and that will do the job, but I do love a big outside gig!!!!. I collected all this Equipment when I was suffering from M.P.S.(major purchase syndrome). I'm better now. it took alot of counciling (the wife), she said she would kill me. LOL David (The loud one) | ||
| Dino Monoxelos (dean_m)
Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2002 |
HEY DAVID, (I'LL TYPE IN CAPS SO YOU CAN HEAR ME BETTER!!!)LOL HOW OFTEN DO YOU GIG WITH THE WEATHER MACHINE? THIS THING IS BORDERING ON JOHN ENTWISTLE'S LITTLE MANHATTAN. DO YOU ACTUALLY CARRY THAT RIG TO YOUR GIGS OR DO YOU HAVE TO RENT A CRANE. WOW, AND I THOUGHT CARRING MY SVT TO GIGS WAS BRAVE!! D | ||
| Charles "David" Tichenor (alembic76407)
Intermediate Member Username: alembic76407 Post Number: 111 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dino, I'm hard of hearing not blind. LOL. I used this amp some years ago in my big hair days, when guitar players used Marshalls, now I take only as much as I can cram in my Porsche or con someone with a van to come by to help. with a set or two of horns it makes a great PA, which is the way it's used most of the time these days, but it makes for one hell of a bass rig!!!!! David (the loud and now poor one) | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Advanced Member Username: palembic Post Number: 373 Registered: 9-2002 |
Guys ...we definitely have to ask David for the "Big Bom" we'll do at the AWS-Home ...remember? I'll be right next to him with my GK 100B. "Wow ... we can go loud" HA! Paul (the bad one) Paul (the fake one) and how do you manage to go to a gig with the SVT, your Alembicand yourself on your Harley? THAT must be something. LOL | ||
| Paul Ellsworth (elzie)
Member Username: elzie Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2002 |
So Dave, that would make your amp the MOABA, or Mother Of All Bass Amps....... Paul (TGO) | ||
| Charles "David" Tichenor (alembic76407)
Intermediate Member Username: alembic76407 Post Number: 112 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, when you go to battle, you should be armed with the biggest and baddest, PLAY TO WIN !!!!! David T (the loud one) and getting louder!!!!! BTW, soundmen hate me and remember second place is the first loser (Message edited by alembic76407 on April 04, 2003) |
