| Author | Message | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 591 Registered: 12-2003 |
As I've mentioned before, I'm an AOR kind of guy and hence play mostly with either an overdrive or distortion pedal kicked on. Before Big Stubby came home, the Little Bear had taken some time off as I had re-fallen in love with my Les Pauls (an R7 and R0) and the Big Bear. I had my OD/Dist setup just the way I like it...sounded great! Rhythm, leads, you name it. Even had the POD XT Live out a few times and it sounded awesome...all through my '78 Hiwatt DR103. Now, I'm back into my Alembics and the OD/Dist sounds like complete s**t!!! It's not that they're muddy as I've noticed with some fuzz pedals. They seem to either be too wimpy or too distorted. The sound I crave just escapes me. The chorus, flanger, phaser, delay, compressor, wah...you name it...all sound awesome, but these OD/dist pedals are driving me crazy! The only one that sounds consistently good with all my guitars (Alembics and non alike), is the EH Metal Muff which I use for leads and heavier rhythm. I'm not the least bit happy with the Radial Trimode for the Alembics. I loved it with the Les Pauls. I've been playing a lot of Lynyrd Skynyrd lately and need to find the right pedal for my Alembics for that particular sound. So I'm going back to the drawing board and will revisit my TS808, OCD, Duncan Twin Tube and Fulltone Distortion Pro. Plus I'll probably try a few others until I find the perfect crossover pedal. I'd hate to think that I'll need separate OD/Dist pedals for my Alembics and non-Alembics, though it might come to this. My worst fear is that the Alembics simply aren't meant for the kind of music I play, although that seems ridiculous. Any of you other six-shooters have similar experiences? (Message edited by jalevinemd on June 29, 2007) | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 316 Registered: 4-2005 |
I matched the output of my Skylark to my Strat by turning the preamps down and I was able to get it to sound good through my BOSS DS1. If the preamps' level was marked 1-10, I'd say I have it on about 1 - 1.5. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2497 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jonathan: Alembics certainly have clear and clean DNA. This happens to work fine for me as I love the Grateful Dead ensemble sound where you can still pick out each individual instrument. That being said, I'll take this opportuntity to again give kudos to the Duncan Twin Tube. I think if you tweak enough, you should be able to get the sound you want. Mine replaced my TS-9 with the Analogman TS-808 silver mod. I'm using the lead channel to get Santana-like saturation. I do find I need to have the filter on the Alembic turned down a little on the bridge pickup for leads as the high end can easily go over the top. I usually use the rhythm channel to add a little crunch when desired, such as when my band plays "One After 909" or other 50's/Chuck Berry flavored tunes. By the way, is your 808 the real thing or did they make a re-issue? Bill, tgo | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 592 Registered: 12-2003 |
(Message edited by jalevinemd on June 29, 2007) | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 593 Registered: 12-2003 |
I hear you guys with the filter adjustments. I find the tone far too "tinny" for lack of a better word if it's cranked. I wish the 808 was vintage. It's one of the reissues. The circuitry supposedly is the same, but who knows? | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1662 Registered: 3-2004 |
My first thought on reading your post was the same as what Tom said. It's not too hard to end up with a much hotter signal coming from the Alembic than a Paul. | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 594 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bill, I tried the Duncan again tonight. I like the rhythm channel, but without changing the settings on my amp, I can't seem to get enough treble from the lead channel. It's almost too smooth, though I can see getting a great Santana-like tone from it. Have you noticed this? | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 876 Registered: 6-2002 |
I hear your od/distortion problems. I have in the past used the original ProCo Rat pedal since about 1992 and for my strat Ultra it sounds fantastic. However when I got the Alembic Orion guitar the sound was not as good as it was with the strats. Sounds kind of buzzy but i can get a useable sound sometimes. I went to a few local guitar shops and tried all the boss pedals as that seems to be all you can find these days apart from the digital ones. I went for a Pod XTLive FX pedal and was very disappointed wit the overdrive sounds. Plus the fact there is no bypass or a way of keeping the clean sound and adding the effects to it. Too much of the natural guitar tone gets lost in digital multi-FX pedals and it annoys me. Even with it in the Send and return loop of my Fender Twin Amp the Pod is still not the best. The best sound I've found so far, and one I'm happy with, is the overdrive channel on my Fender Twin Amp. For gigs when I can to carry my own kit, i use that and it's great. For other concerts I have to use whatever backline is there and although I ask for a Fender Twin, it doesnt always work out that way and I have to compromise and use the Rat. So until I can get a chance to try some valve based od/distortion pedals I continue to make do with my Proco Rat pedal. It's far better than the Pod but I think a valve driven pedal will be the best option. I was considering ordering a Radial Tri-mode pedal or a Mesa Boogie pedal but hot having had the chance to try one out its a bit of a risk. I've been through the option of turning the gain down on the alembics but that works only so far. I kind of think Alembic pickups work better with clean sounds rather than dirty ones. Jazzyvee | ||
| blazer
Intermediate Member Username: blazer Post Number: 160 Registered: 12-2003 |
There's a reason why guitarist generaly stick with tried and tested stuff. I played an Alembic Series one guitar which sounded lovely clean, having that "hi-fi" sound which Alembics are known for but that also became it's undoing as soon as I turned on the overdrive channel of the Marshall it was plugged into. It sounded lifeless and Buzzy and no matter what I did with the filters I just couldn't get it to sound warm and creamy. I guess that's also why Alembic is better known for Basses. What works for a bass doesn't automatically work for a guitar. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1666 Registered: 3-2004 |
You know, I have had trouble getting warm drive out of my basses as well. Maybe if there's a good answer to this, it will work for me as well. I still think the output may be too hot and clean, but it sounds too good for everything else to screw with it. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 586 Registered: 3-2004 |
I never have a problem with my guitars and getting a nice distortion tone. lp classic 3 emgs Amer Deluxe strat w emgs esp ltd ec1000 w emgs Skylark Esquire gt duncan invader Esquire Scorpion w emg MM Petrucci 7 w dimarzios BC Rich 81 Mockingbird w BL L500s I use a podpro rack unit w/Carver PM 175 - Dean Markley 410 slant cab. Modern High Gain setting most of the time. But this is not a boutique hot rod set up by any means. | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 595 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jazzyvee, I'm selling my Radial Trimode. If you're interested, shoot me an e-mail. Danno, I'm fairly certain that part of the problem I have with getting the distortion sound I want is related to the MUCH lower volumes at which I tend to play. Plus, the Hiwatt is SO clean to begin with. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 588 Registered: 3-2004 |
You have so many more considerations than i do. I've been tempted to get a real tube head but the choices seem overwhelming. I have a lot of respect for you tone warriors. Good thing I don't play guitar on stage anymore. Good luck on your search! | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 596 Registered: 12-2003 |
Danno...thanks. | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 532 Registered: 7-2004 |
Jonathan, as long as you're searching you might try a Blackstone. http://www.blackstoneappliances.com/ I don't have one in my rig, but I've played through a friend's rig with one and I found it exceptionally versatile. Peace Tom | ||
| dtrice
Member Username: dtrice Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2006 |
If you want a more Skynyrd sound. Use a Les Paul (or Explorer, Firebird, or Strat depending on which guitarist) with boosted Mids. Gary Rossington only used a Phase 90 (Tuesday's Gone, etc.) through his marshalls. Allen Collins only used a Wah (Needle and the Spoon) through his Marshalls (and/or Hiwatts live). Ed King preferred to go straight into a Fender Reverb, but also a Marshall onstage. Skynyrd was never a band that used a lot pedals for their guitar sound. | ||
| terryc
Intermediate Member Username: terryc Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2004 |
Once put my MK signature bass thru' my old Colorsound Tonebender fuzz, sounds really good with loads of rich harmonics and sustain. They say that silicon/germanium transistor fuzz units give the best sound. | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 533 Registered: 7-2004 |
Germanium units sound fantastic, but are sensitive to heat and can become unstable and unpredictable. So, if you're playing outdoors this summer, keep that in mind. Peace Tom | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 265 Registered: 3-2004 |
I had terrible results whenever I tried to use germanium fuzzes with either my Orion or Skylark. Right now I am using a DOD grunge pedal with my Orion for a super saturated sound. Funny enough, I hadn't used this pedal in years, and was planning on selling it, having always hated its sound with my other guitars. I plugged in my Orion and the pedal seemed to have a new life. I would really like to try a Zvex Box of Rock as a substitute, as he claims that they are active electronics friendly, but he also says it really is intended to be used through a Marshall for best results. Tom did your friend have an Alembic, or was it a guitar with passive electronics? I am considering a Blackstone as an alternative to the Zvex, but need to be reassured that it won't be unfriendly to the Alembic guts. | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 515 Registered: 1-2003 |
Have you guys that are having difficulties with solid state fuzz boxes tried genuine tube distortion? In particular, does anyone have experience using the two channels of an F2B in series - i.e. using the first channel to overdrive the second channel? | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1438 Registered: 2-2006 |
Good point David. IMHO distortion from over driven tubes sounds the best. Olie | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2005 |
Here's my example of knowing the Alembic preamps are really "hot". In the 1.5 years I was using my Eden WT300 with my Jazz bass with EMG's, the fan never went on. I plug my Alembic in, and the second time I play it, the fan comes on. And I'm not even playing loud. Knowing that, I get my Skylark, and my fuzz's sound bad. But, it makes my old Bassman head just sing with overdrive at about 4 or 5. There's no way my Strat nor Paul are going to make that head sing at the same level. So if my Skylark is doing that to my Bassman, what is it doing to my fuzz boxes? Of course they can't handle the output of the preamps. I plugged my Strat into my head, put it on the bridge pickup, strummed it hard, and got a level. Plugged my Skylark in, bridge pickup, strummed - defintely louder. Turn down the preamp to match. They are turned ever so slightly from off. Because the preamps are designed correctly, you don't lose any tone from playing them at that low of a level. Plug in my boxes, they all work. Make it as difficult or complicated as you want, but this is not rocket science. Just a little logic from my experiences with the preamps. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 266 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tubes work fine, and of course are the standard, but I simply can't push my amps that hard in a home setting (my son is going on four weeks old now). Aside from that, fuzzes have a different character than a tube that sometimes is desirable. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 267 Registered: 3-2004 |
Oh, and I tried adjusting preamp levels with my skylark, and couldn't get it to sound good either. It may have just been my gear. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1440 Registered: 2-2006 |
If it has a Master and Channel volume controls I have no problem getting distortion at low volumes. The best over driven guitar sound I've ever had was with a mid-60's 100 watt Marshall head I used to own. Great sound BUT, it had no master volume so you really had to crank it to make it sing. | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 1237 Registered: 11-2003 |
Naive guitar question, most bass amps come with seperate passive/active channels. Is this also true of guitar amps? Sam | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 268 Registered: 3-2004 |
I don't think I have ever seen an amp with an active input for guitar. | ||
| 82daion
Junior Username: 82daion Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2005 |
Sam, I don't know of any guitar amp out there with a passive/active channel or pad-the incidence of active guitars is so rare that I don't think that any manufacturer has deemed it necessary to incorporate such a feature. I know of many guitar amps with multiple inputs/channels, but none designed specifically for active or passive instruments. Chris | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 591 Registered: 3-2004 |
GC and Ash are doing 15 months this week. I know we all have our experiences with these companies but it does make for a less painful way to get a nice piece of gear. This thread has me thinking about a nice tube head. Most are over a grand (even used). So I'm a going a lookin' on the 4th! Any brand suggestions? | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1670 Registered: 3-2004 |
Danno, that always depends on what tone you're looking for. I've always loved the tone of the big Mesa heads, but it may be too warm and buttery for your gig. It seems like the SVT and variants have always been popular with the guys who play heavier stuff. Then there's always the boutique stuff. Personally, I never went in for owning any of it since I don't have the luxury of roadies and was gigging too often. Carrying a tube head plus backup is just more gear than I want to deal with on a regular basis in spite of the effortless and wonderful tone. I find a good tube preamp with solid state amplification lets me get a good tone for live work at a variety of volume levels. I'd wait to hear the opinions of Alembic players that use tubes as well. One thing I noticed was that every bass I tried through a Mesa rig (400+ into a 2x15 cab) sounded pretty good, but pretty similar. I wonder if the impact of full-out tubes might hide some of the Alembic character? | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 593 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm sorry, I didn't mention it was guitar heads I was looking at. I'm more than set for bass gear. f1x sf2 plx 3402 (x2) genz benz gbe 1200 ul212, t310, low b4. whappo jr plus 2 jbl mpro 18's if I lose my mind entirely. Any suggestions on heads would be appreciated, keeping in mind all of the thoughts above on gain, tone and active pups. (Guy in my band loves boogie mark 4's.) | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 534 Registered: 7-2004 |
There are plenty of players using guitars with active EMGs but I have never seen an amp with inputs labeled active / passive either. Kevin, I had my Strat and Starcaster (the old hollow-body kind) with me when I used the Blackstone so I can't lend insight as to how it would perform with Alembic electronics. Danno, what kind of sound are you looking for? Mesa makes some really nice stuff, from clean American sounding to very agro. The Genz Benz stuff I've seen appears to be very nice quality stuff too. If you have the wallet, take a look at Two Rock. Or for a more British Plexi sound maybe a Bruno Pony 50. I would say take your guitar(s) and a decent cord to your favorite dealer and try a few things. Peace Tom | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2502 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've seen active/passive inputs on acoustic guitar amps, never on a elecric guitar amp. Danno: Another vote for Boogie, but I'd think twice about a Mark IV. To me they are overkill - just too much control, too many variables. I played a Mark III for almost 20 years. Last year I swithed to a Mark IIC+, the holy grail of boogies. I like the lead tone a little more than on the Mark III. The best lead tone, IMHO is the original Mark I, but they really don't channel switch. You can either plug into the rhythm input, or the lead input. I thought about setting up a two Mark I rig, but my back vetoed the idea. Of course the Mark III and Mark IV give you the "crunch" rhythm channel (think Marshall) that the Mark II lacks. Bill, tgo | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 594 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks guys. i just have to get out there and try some things out. Maybe the gas will pass and I'll pay off my Alembic bill before the bass is delivered. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 269 Registered: 3-2004 |
I emailed Jon Blackstone, and he says he believes his OD unit should work fine as long as it is switched to buffered mode (I assume an internal setting on the pedal?). I may give one of these a shot. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 270 Registered: 3-2004 |
Duh, I guess I should have read his website closer: "There is now an internal switch that puts the pedal into "buffered" mode, permitting use after other effects, wireless systems and active pickups." | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 597 Registered: 3-2004 |
I picked up a Solo 50 Rectifier. Now to mess around with a tube sound! |
