| Author | Message | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1448 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well, I've just come back from the best 'Bass' performance I've ever seen and there wasn't a single Alembic to be seen. I saw Marcus Miller last night and he was simply astounding. I was pretty awestruck, not so much by his technical ablility which was enormous, but by the musicality of the whole band. Whenever I've seen other bass led groups, it's been obvious that the band has been there purely to back up the leader and in some cases, they needn't have been there at all - the recent Stanley Clarke show in London is a case in point. With Marcus's music, even though the Bass was as 'up-front' as it could possibly be, I never felt that it was a Bass gig, instead it just became part of the music. That's not to say it was overshadowed in any way. In fact, from my position 4 feet in front of the stage and less than 10 feet from his rig, I could literally feel every note he played. He is backed up by some superb musicians, patches Stewart on trumpet and Poogie bell on drums to name the two more famous members, but the others, Keith Anderson on sax, bobby sparks on keyboards and gregoire maret on harmonica were equally superb despite me never having heard them. All through the show, it was obvious that Marcus was loving what he was doing and appreciated the crowds response, both to his solos and to those of his band. They have alot of fun onstage and the interaction, even within obviously improvised pieces seemed telepathic at points. He played a sustained 1 1/2 hour set, including a few tunes from his new album - blast and Stevie wonder's higher ground, interspersed with many of his better known works. Highlights were his rendition of amazing grace which he played on bass clarinet and a storming version of the beatles' Come Together which he strung out to over 15 minutes. This song marked the end of his set but the crowd reaction was such that there was no way he'd make it out of the place without an encore which he duly gave after first asking the audience what they'd like to hear. After a few moments banter, he announced he was going to play something He wanted and launched into a Tower of Power number, at times sounding just like Rocco but never losing his own identity. Ten minutes or so it was all over but marcus took the time to shake hands with fans and stop to chat to everyone on his way from the stage to the dressing room (something Stanley couldn't be bothered with). For the gear heads, he predominantly played his natural finish Jazz but also used a sunburst fretless Jazz for one number (plus of course his clarinet). He no longer endorses EBS, now having a Marcucmiller M2 signature preamp from SWR. Power came from an SWR Goliath 750 which was powering a pair of goliath 4x10 cabs. On the floor he had a huge array of pedals including all the EBS range, a bug muff and several others I didn't recognise. I'm going off now to listen to some of his recordings. If you get the chance to see him live, don't miss it! Graeme | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 280 Registered: 2-2005 |
Nice review....one question...bass clarinet as in clarinet, as in wind/reed instrument? | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1451 Registered: 10-2002 |
That's the one. Looks like a stretched sax but with an ebony body and clarinet fingering. Graeme | ||
| hieronymous
Advanced Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 233 Registered: 1-2005 |
He plays bass clarinet on his albums, even stuff like Miles Davis's Tutu. Talk about well-rounded musician! Producer too... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5638 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nice review; thanks!! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1460 Registered: 10-2002 |
In complete contrast, I saw Alice Cooper in Glasgow this Wednesday. What a fantastic showman he is (and what alot of energy for a 59 year old). His current touring band are all superb musicians and as ever he had his daughter to kill and maim throughout the show. Support was from Joan jett - still looking foxy at 49 and (unfortunately for me as I'm not a fan at all) Motorhead who turned up the volume after every song. My ears are still a bit 'muddy' following Lemmy's exertions. Loudest band in the world? i suspect they probably are. Graeme | ||
| mr_tuvok
New Username: mr_tuvok Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 |
Loudest band in the world: MANOWAR | ||
| white_cloud
New Username: white_cloud Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2007 |
Great review of the Marcus gig Graeme, absolutely first rate musician..wish I had been there! Yeah, Alice cooper went down a storm at Glasgow..very loud and a top showman for sure (pure thaetre!) Best rock bass performance at Glasgow for me lately was Geddy lee when Rush dropped by in October. He displayed great chops and flawless vocals..realy impressive! Would love to know what kind of pre-amp he uses..theres no way that he uses a standard 72 jazz bass! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1474 Registered: 10-2002 |
I missed Rush this time round although I was there in 2005. From what I've read, geddy uses a sansamp into the PA. When I saw them he had tumble driers on stage to balance Alex's amp stacks. Graeme | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2007 |
This time Geddy had a nice bunch of barbeque grills with roast chickens rotating on them instead of the tumble dryers..really gave me an appetite!! I have seen Rush a few times but this was by far the best show I have seen them put on, still prefer the Geddsters Wal sound though! | ||
| eligilam
Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 79 Registered: 2-2006 |
There's a cool video clip on bassplayer.tv under the "Geddy Lee" section where he's backstage going over all the basses he's using on the tour: Original "Blue Beast," Blue Beast copy, Fender custom shop stuff, fretted and fretless Jaco signature basses. I agree, though, WC...the Wal sound is still preferable, ala "A Show of Hands." Twangity twang. | ||
| elwoodblue
Intermediate Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 187 Registered: 6-2002 |
I heard motorhead had sponsored a little league soccer team....there should be more of that. | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2007 |
Absolutely! Will never understand why he switched back to the Fender jazzers from the far superior WAL. More to the point why the hell doesnt he play an Alembic!!!!!!!!!!! Good tip about the video clip about the big Ged! | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1633 Registered: 2-2006 |
$$$$ in the pocket. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1475 Registered: 10-2002 |
The reason quoted by most full time professionals for giving up Alembics is one of weight. Graeme | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2007 |
What you are saying then Graeme is that Geddy lee is basically a wimp, hee hee! Now I think of it he doesnt look like he works out. I think he should work out and get an Alembic..a custom made two series would suit him beautifully, Im sure he could afford it! P.s. sorry Geddy if you see this, Im just kidding | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1634 Registered: 2-2006 |
It all boils down to economics. Rush doesn't sell out football stadiums any longer so they need to supplement their income any way they can. Not only will Fender give Geddy Jazz basses for free they probably will pay him good money to be seen playing them. While Rush is not as popular as they were say in the 80’s, Geddy is still one of the more recognized bassist in the world so it benefits Fender for him to be seen playing their basses. Now this may not actually be the case in this scenario but it is a good possibility. Olie | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2007 |
I think you are right Olie, money is behind most motives..Sad but true! | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 905 Registered: 2-2005 |
While I'm sure the endorsement is involved, Geddy has used Fender basses for years. While he used the Ricknbacker's live most if his early 80's recordings were done with a Jazz Bass. He started using other basses in the mid-80's and believe he went back to Jazz Basses in the early 90's. I think he kind of proves the old adage that the bassist has more to do with the sound than the instrument. Keith | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1635 Registered: 2-2006 |
That kind of fuels the endorsement theory. Maybe he was being payed to play the Rick's in public during the 80's altough he obviously prefered the Jazz's therfore that's what he recorded with. I am by no means knocking him for doing that either. I'd do the same same thing were I in his shoes. Gotta pay the bills man! In fact if Fender would like to give me an endorsement I am open for discussion.  Have their people call my people and we'll see what we can work out, Olie I agree Keith, the player has more to do with the sound than the instrument itself. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 906 Registered: 2-2005 |
I thought I read in an interview somewhere that he used the Rick's as they were better at reproducing the studio sound while playing live. Anyway endorsements or not I'll never be part of the crowd that has to worry about them. I can safely say that music will be a cash outflow for me for the remainder of my years. :-) Keith | ||
| alembic_doctor
Advanced Member Username: alembic_doctor Post Number: 370 Registered: 8-2002 |
The only way to end up with a million dollars in this business is to start out with two million | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1636 Registered: 2-2006 |
The closest thing I've ever had to an endorsement is free beer while we played. LOL | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007 |
Consider yourself lucky Olie, all I got free was the empty beer cans thrown at me  | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1637 Registered: 2-2006 |
I have that too John, excewpt they were bottles. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 907 Registered: 2-2005 |
Isn't this why they invented chicken wire for the front of the stage? The stories are starting to remind of an old bar called the Rustic Inn just outside West Chicago, Il. There were usually a couple of airborne bottles shortly before the crowd tumbled into the parking lot. Keith | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 473 Registered: 11-2005 |
You guys ought to come out to some of these Fraternity parties we play. We do a 2 hour show straight with no break. These kids want us to play until we have to stop(2-3 A.M.) and we don't do that. So what you have is a bunch of drunk, unruly spoiled brats pissed because we're not a juke box band that will play all hours of the night.It makes for an interesting evening when you have to call the cops for fear of your own safety being compromised, and it's happened many times. Oh yes and Geddy's Jazz tone has more low end than the Wal's but not as much clarity. | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2007 |
Chicken wire?? Reminds me of the old movie "roadhouse" with Jeff Heally sitting in the firing line..man! Funny enough, its always the spoiled priveliged kids that are the worst when they dont get what they want. I recently read the Jaco Pastorious biography and had to chuckle when I read about some of the abuse he dished out to audiences when gigs started to fall apart around him during his sad meltdown..definite case of the shoe being on the other foot! I think Geddys sound has a really cutting, raspy edge to it..effective at pushing his sound through the mix but not the best tone in the world by far! Wal basses always had a lovely tone and beats the Fender hands down in my opinion. | ||
| bigbadbill
Senior Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 401 Registered: 10-2003 |
There's only one bass for Geddy in my opinion and that's the Ric. I actually think the Wal is his worst sound by far. I've seen him live using the Ric and the Wal and the Wal wasn't even close. I love aggressive sounds though, my favourite bassists include Chris Squire, Entwistle, Lemmy, Jean Jacques Burnel, early Mike Rutherford and Roger Glover (Ric-era) etc. I do like Wals but I don't feel the sound fits Rush all that well. Getting back on thread, as I discussed with Graeme at Bass Day UK I'm a big Motorhead fan so Lem can do little wrong in my eyes (in fact I actually had a M/head t-shirt on whilst talking to you Graeme!). I also vastly prefer Stan to Marcus. It's funny, Marcus is a legend and eveything, but I've just never been able to get into him all that much. I don't really like his sound or his style, but I would have loved to have seen his show though. It's always a pleasure seeing anyone of that calibre live whether they're your cup of tea or not; for instance Jeff Berlin saved Bass Day for me, although I wouldn't have said I'm his biggest fan. FWIW I didn't think it was a patch on last year. BTW Graeme, that Spector went back......it sounded terrible at home! One of those "sounds great in the shop" moments.....I thought I was past those! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1478 Registered: 10-2002 |
I thought you were going to say Mrs BBB threatened you with something sharp unless it went back ;-) Shame - it looked a really nice instrument. Most of the comments in other forums around Bassday have been to do with getting some other styles in next time. I'll agree, jeff was superb and incredibly professional considering all the power went off after his first song. I don't know if you stayed till the end but Hadrien feraud was an eyeopener. only 23 and playing with john mclaughlin. I still can't get over his technique. He was a really nice guy to talk to after the show too. Graeme | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2007 |
It all boils down to the same old thing..everybody is different, thank god!! One mans meat is another mans poison and all that jazz. I prefer subtle tones and Im not mad for plectrum players like JJB, Lemmy or Chris squire etc..its simply a taste issue, doesnt make them bad players or anything in my eyes..I just prefer the sound of fingers plucking and thumbs thumping!! Jeff berlin is probably my fave player of all time, so melodic. He blew me away in the eighties and along with jonas helborg and stanley changed my perception of how a bass could be played. Hellborg was incredible with Mclaughlin back in the day, in fact theres an incredible version of pork pie hat with the terrible twins on youtube if you fancy a look at hellborg ripping it up on a Wal twin-neck!! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1479 Registered: 10-2002 |
I taped that mclaughlin tune from tv in around 1992 when channel 4 were running alot of jazz shows. I think it was on around the same time as the seville 92 guitar legends shows although the show itself must have been recorded around 1987. I first saw berlin in 1988 when he was playing with john mclaughlin and trilok gurtu. They did a storming version of joe frazier. Hellborg turned up at Bass day last year..  Like everyone else that turns up to these events, if you take the time to chat to him, he's a really nice guy. I think he's had his teeth done since the paris video too ;-) Graeme | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2007 |
Great pic Graeme, thanks for sharing! He has a sound all of his own thats for sure! I have heard that Jeff Berlin can be a little bit prickly and outspoken but I will let him off as he's my main man! I do think Marcus is incredible also, a very important modern player...great technique! | ||
| bigbadbill
Senior Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2003 |
Graeme, she wasn't best pleased but that wasn't the reason! Unfortunately I was flagging and my mate Stuart was flagging even more so we bailed before Hadrien, which was a shame as I was looking forward to seeing him. I think ironically the thing we both struggled most with was the sound of 10,000 people (well it sounded like it) in the foyer all playing in the same style with the same sound, all day!!! Eventually I just got a bit of a headache! I was very impressed with Jeff B; I'd heard he could be hard work but I thought he was quite humble and very entertaining, as well as playing some great bass. I have the Hellborg/McLaughlin concert on tape at home; it's very good, although Jonas is a little undermixed. My favourite of the big names (well, non-rock big names) will always be Stanley, he just has to play one note and I'm gone. Of the newer guys I like Matt Garrison and Janek Gwizdala. Of course Richard Bona isn't bad either! | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2007 |
To be honest Im just amazed and blown away by the sheer ammount of incredible bass players nowadays. Back in the day you had about a dozen or so virtuoso bassists but the bar has been raised somewhat now! I guess the pioneers changed all of our expectations and inspired a new breed to push the boundrays further and further. I do however think that feel beats technique any day! Music doesnt have to be clever or technically awesome to touch you. | ||
| bigbadbill
Senior Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2003 |
I completely agree, which is why my favourite guys are the Squires and Entwistles of this world. Love guys like John McVie and Gary Thain too, a bit atypical for me. Oh, and some guy named Jamerson... | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1639 Registered: 2-2006 |
I agree with you both. Shredding or Speed slappin' is cool but some of the most memorable bass solos aren’t “solos” at all. They’re “bass”ically the groove the bass player is playing anyway, or the intros to tunes…i.e. I Wish, Brick House, Brown Eyed Girl and Skin Tight. These are not hard lines to play but as soon as you hear them you know the song. (Stanley being the main execption here, I mean School Days has a ton of great bass leads, grooves...) | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2007 |
The first time I saw Stanley was on the old grey whistle test in the early eighties playing school days with George Duke..blew my mind! Truly astounding! I had just started playing bass and, having never really had been exposed to fusion, the impact it had on me was like a nuclear explosion! It IS marvelous watching astounding bass players solo but it doesnt often fit into truly great tunes as a rule! For someone like, say Entwhistle, to take quite basic (technically)who songs but stand out because of his prescence/tone, well thats REALLY something! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5708 Registered: 5-2002 |
Just for fun, I disagree! John said "feel beats technique any day! Music doesnt have to be clever or technically awesome to touch you". Here you seem to be saying that for music to "touch you", the person playing has to have "feel". Assuming that "to touch you" means "to convey emotion", "feel" is then the ability to express emotional content. It seems to me that one's abililty to use their fingers to express what's in their heart is directly related to technique, which I would suggest comes from lots of practice. Technique, for instance, is demonstrated in the plucking hands ability to make subtle dynamic changes within a phrase that give a series of notes much more emotional content. Technique is also demonstrated in the fingering hands application of vibrato at just the right speed to convey the intended emotion. So, using these examples, the skillful application of dynamics and vibrato can significantly change the emotional content of a phrase. This, to me, is technique. To say that "feels beat technique" doesn't make sense to me because "feel" is directly related to technique. The better your technique, the better you can play from your heart without thinking about what your fingers are doing. | ||
| white_cloud
Junior Username: white_cloud Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2007 |
I love it! You are completely right in a sense of course, but another angle to look at it is that you can also have quite magnificent chops but not have an awful lot to say from the heart in a song writing sense! I guess the point I was trying to make was kind of like this; Who wrote the songs that touched most people 1. John Lennon, or 2. Steve Vai. Now, I know its purely a matter of taste, but if you are honest, who would most folk pick? And in your opinion who had the best guitar "technique"?? And....I did say "music doesnt HAVE TO be clever to be touch you" But I didnt say it COULDNT | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 531 Registered: 1-2003 |
Maybe John should be paraphrased as "feel beats clever any day" - rather than feel v technique. A simple line can have high technical demands (as described by Dave) in order to convey the right feeling. So I think what John is saying is that a simple line played well (i.e. with feeling which implies a certain level of technique) is more emotionally satisfying than a clever line played without feel. The clever line, however, requires a high level of technique just to execute the line (by definition). So the difference between the two lines is the "feel" not the technique. That is, "feel" and "technique" are two different things. "Technique" is a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for "feel". Some technique might be learned cranking out AC/DC tunes 300 nights a year. Other technique might have an academic basis. But the ability to apply any technique is based on practice. | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2007 |
Exactly! As David st Hubbins said in spinal tap; "theres such a fine line between clever and stupid!" I have just listened, by chance, to "a remark you made" by Weather report...man! Now there is a perfect example of feel, technique and clever all in one. Simply beautiful! God bless Jaco and Joe zawinul. | ||
| bigbadbill
Senior Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 406 Registered: 10-2003 |
Interestingly I feel that some of the best guitar playing technique I've ever heard comes from David Gilmour. His touch, his vibrato, the way he strikes the strings, are all, IMHO, impeccable. But as we all know, technique is a word usually used to describe speed and virtuosity; using the above example, Steve Vai would normally be considered to have great technique, whereas Gilmour, by his own admission, maybe isn't considered to have so much. But I much prefer Gilmour's playing, and his technique is a big part of his marvelous expression. |
