| Author | Message | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 290 Registered: 2-2005 |
Has anyone ever done this? What kind of sandpaper did you use? How much work was it? Did it take a long time, or was it relatively quick? In other words, is it a pain in the ass? | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 400 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yes I have(not on my MK though) If the finish is polyester/cellulose you can begin with a chemical stripper. As soon as it begins to bubble rinse it off, dry it with cloths then let it dry naturally in a warm area, don't 'force' dry it with hair dryers. This should remove most of the finish. Remove the rest of with sandpaper, medium grit then finishing off with finer grits. Type to use is either fine glass papers or the silicon carbide papers produce a good result. Lot of hard work but if you are refinishing then it's all in the preparation. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 401 Registered: 11-2004 |
Yes I have(not on my MK though) If the finish is polyester/cellulose you can begin with a chemical stripper. As soon as it begins to bubble rinse it off, dry it with cloths then let it dry naturally in a warm area, don't 'force' dry it with hair dryers. This should remove most of the finish. Remove the rest of with sandpaper, medium grit then finishing off with finer grits. Type to use is either fine glass papers or the silicon carbide papers produce a good result. Lot of hard work but if you are refinishing then it's all in the preparation. | ||
| crobbins
Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 72 Registered: 6-2004 |
Terry, did you have a double-neck bass? Lol.. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 402 Registered: 11-2004 |
Sorry..hit the send button twice!!!!!! Anyway too heavy..my Mk weighs enough | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 486 Registered: 11-2005 |
If you use chemical stripper be very very careful as it will strip your skin and nasal passages too. It is a great deal faster than sanding but you need to take more precautionary measures as opposed to sanding(and only needing a cheap face mask). 1.wear a long sleeve shirt,jeans and a good mask 2.get gloves that can be used with chemical solvents(can be found in the hardware store) 3.mineral spirits are necessary to wash off the stripper from your neck, gloves and anything else it could be on( I keep some in a bucket close by, instead of in the can & having to pry off the lid every time). 4. I used a brown paper covered padded tarp to do my work on. It's cheap and throws away easily. 5. DO THIS OUTSIDE, THESE FUMES ARE RANCID HORRIBLE STUFF! Now if you don't want to go through all of this and would rather sand it down then start with some 220 grit paper and take it easy, don't be impatient and dig in you can and will mess up that neck. Let your hand follow the curve of the neck as your sanding and check your progress as you go along. You can use up to an 800 grit but don't get it too smooth as the finish can have a hard time sticking to it. Good luck! | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Junior Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2007 |
Won’t this make the neck susceptible to moisture & therefore movement? | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 489 Registered: 11-2005 |
Only if you leave the thing sitting around for a while. Also depends on neck construction ( one piece, laminated neck or one with graphite stiffeners installed). I would definitely wait until the weather gets warmer to do something like this, unless you have a shop that is climate controlled and has fans and vents to get fumes out of the room. | ||
| white_cloud
Intermediate Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2007 |
As an amateur furniture maker I would say that stripping and sanding are indeed a pain in the ass job..the worst part of any project for me is in the sanding! Most wood workers tend to agree on this one. Its as simple as this in my opinion: If the instrument in question is an Alembic dont do it, get a luthier with a good rep to do it..costing you a little, but saving you a lot of hassle, trouble and potential grief! | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2005 |
Wow...thanks for the info! Seriously, I'm glad I asked. No, it's not for the Alembic, but another, cheaper bass...still, I don't want to mess it up. | ||
| gare
Senior Member Username: gare Post Number: 410 Registered: 11-2003 |
hb3 I've sanded a couple bass necks (not my Excel), I kind of like the feel of an unfinished neck. I did a Mexican Jazz Bass and a Dean fretless. The aim was to break the finish not reprofile the neck. I started with 100 grit and then finished with 400 grit. They both came out well..both are very slick necks now. I make a point of wiping them down after each use and periodically clean them with lemon oil (letting the oil soak in a few minutes), no problems so far. Gary | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2807 Registered: 7-2004 |
I've obtained a satin finish on the back of a neck using 0000 steel wool. Bill, tgo | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 290 Registered: 5-2002 |
A couple of comments and a terrifying story too. If you were looking to have a faster finish on the neck, you can easily do that by abrading the surface of the existing finish, as many have mentioned. I would recommend that you use something like #0 synthetic steel wool. It'll take forever if you use too fine of a steel wool. And you don't want to use actual steel wool as it will break down into tiny metal fibers that will destroy your pickups and electronics. Synthetic steel wool is plastic and non-magnetic (3M makes the good stuff; you can get it at marine supply houses or auto paint stores) so there's no danger to your electronics. Of course, you still need to mask everything off that you're not sanding, but I don't think you need to pull the electronics if you mask it well and don't use steel wool. If you do want to strip the varnish entirely, then you will probably want to immediately treat the bare surface with an oil finish. If you don't do that, you probably won't like the dirty appearance it will develop over time, especially if your neck is mostly maple. Even with the oil finish, it's hard to keep it from getting dirty looking. Many years ago, I had a custom Series II built (my bass is the one on the Series II product page). It had a very exotic burl rosewood top, fancy inlays (this was the first appearance of what would later be the Alchemy inlays) and was the first bass with ebony neck lams and a stinger omega. It's also a 35" scale. Mostly because of the (awesome) inlay, it took a long time to build - seems like it was at least 15 months, probably even a little longer than that. Somewhere in the build process, I think somebody overlooked the 35" scale instructions. When I went up to pick up the bass, it was awesome, but the neck was odd in a couple of ways. The face lams that cover the headstock scarf joint came to a weird point under the first fret area instead of being behind the nut (something had been cut for 34" scale instead of 35"). I don't think there was anything inherently wrong with the structure, but it looked sort of scary since the thinnest part of the neck was actually under the fingerboard. You don't ever want to think about an inadvertant drop and snapped headstock, but you *really* don't want to think about that snap point being in the neck itself (especially with side LEDs!). The neck also felt really thick and chunky which was also non-optimal for me. I visited it in December (it must have been 1987, but might have been 1986) and it brought it home for a couple of weeks, then brought it back up so it could go to the NAMM show as a show bass. After the show I went up to the factory and discussed the neck issues, which Alembic graceously agreed to address. This was going to involve adding additional back headstock lams to fill out the "notch" (much more complicated than I would have thought, since they had to increase the shaft length of the tuners to make up for the extra thickness). Since the additional lams were going to be cause for the neck to be refinished, they told me that they would reshape the neck profile as well. So, I figured I'd handle some other basses up there and tell them to make it like one of those. Bob, who had worked with me on the bass starting with wood selection, told me that we should just do the shaping while I was there. Then, with absolutely no further ado, he whipped out a hand scraper. In a world of CNC milling machines and carbide-tipped grinder, the hand scraper is an old world artist's tool. It's basically an index-sized sheet of fine steel that has a sharp burr ground onto the edges. He clamped my bass into a padded clamp, held the scraper firmly in his hands, and ran it along the back of the neck. A feet-long curl of laminated wood and finish rolled off. My eyes pretty much popped out of my head! Remember, this bass had just returned from being the fancy showpiece at the NAMM show, so watching the flawless finish peeled off like that left me in shock. I guess it would be appropriate to say here that if you want to enjoy sausage, don't watch it being made. I was humbled to watch his artistry with the scraper, but there was definitely a part of my brain saying "hey, the neck isn't THAT bad". After 6 or 7 passes, he pulled the bass out of the clamp and asked me whether that was better. I know I was still in shock. It took a couple of cycles of this, but soon the neck was perfect. It took another 6 weeks or so before I went back up to get the final fix, and it was awesome. If you read up on the hand scraper, you'll find that it's the classic tool of choice for doing something like this. Sanding is harder on the surface and fills the surface grain with dust which negatively affects the appearance. A sharp scaper in the hands of a skilled user is fast and precise. Of course, there's no way that I could use it like that. If you're planning a minor reshaping of the neck profile, sanding will work fine, but you might consider alternatives if you are doing a radical reshaping. David Fung | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 1051 Registered: 7-2003 |
It's amazing how fast a skilled craftsman with the right tool can work. The biggest (and hardest to quantify) element of this is that Bob could move so quickly because he already knew how much he wanted to take off and how the tool would work on the wood. Part of that is being able to envision things confidently in 3D. I've done some mods, inlays and refin on a number of instruments. The only time I've done anything remotely comparable (and in principle only) to what Bob was doing was after literally weeks of envisioning, checking and rethinking. It's really cool when you can make that happen (Try to envision plunging a Dremel router into the cocobolo top lam to start an inlay (the first one you've ever done.) on a body you've carved for 3 weeks). My hat's off to the guys who have the years of experience and skills to do this work. Bill | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 619 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'll echo what Bill said. I did a relic job on a '61 SG reissue of mine. Superfine steel wool gave a great satin feel to the neck. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2810 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hey Jonathan, haven't seen you around these parts lately. Hope you're having a fine holiday season. Did you ever get your Scott Walker guitar? One came up on ebay a couple of weeks ago that looked a little shady. The auction, not the guitar. The guitar looked beautiful. The auction was pulled early for "error in the listing". To steer this thread back in the right direction, My '76 Series I guitar is currently at the mothership getting the neck re-shaped. They've pulled out all the electronics and stuff - down to bare wood - and will be refinishing. Steel wool certainly wouldn't work for changing shape, but it does a great job of "satinizing" the neck. The little pieces that break off are a PITA. A good mini vacuum and some masking tape (both to mask and later to pick up little pieces) are a must. I've never heard of the plastic steel wool of which David speaks, but I will certainly check it out the next time I attempt this process. Thanks David, As usual you are a marvelous font of all knowledge Alembic and related topics. Happy New Year to all. Bill, tgo | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2005 |
David...an amazing story. Happy New Year, all! | ||
| jalevinemd
Senior Member Username: jalevinemd Post Number: 620 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bill, Yeah...I haven't chimed in in awhile. I've just been sitting by watching everyone elses' babies being born. To answer your question, I don't have the Walker yet. I wound up buying an R9 Les Paul and had a '79 Koa Mockingbird restored by Neal Moser...all this happened at the time the guitar was due. So as to avoid so many huge expenses all at once, I told Scott to take care of his other customers and finish mine after the Holidays. I'll let you know when it arrives. Happy New Year to you and yours. Regards, Jonathan | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5896 Registered: 5-2002 |
Great story David; thanks! | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 882 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bill, While 0000 steel wool will work fine, I'd recommend the equivalent in a 3M pad, since it won't leave little bits sticking to the pickups. Bradley | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2813 Registered: 7-2004 |
Bradley: Good to see you've come up for air. Pretty nice when you finally get to hold the instrument in your hands that you've been watching on-line for a couple of years, ain't it??!! A few posts above, David Fung mentions a 3M "synthetic" plastic steel wool. It that what you're talking about? Bill, tgo | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 883 Registered: 12-2004 |
Yup. I picked some up in the paint section of my local Fred Meyer. Did the first adjustments (loosened truss rod, fiddled with the bridge height) to my bass last night after church-- but wasn't paying attention to time, and all of a sudden it's 11PM, and my son is saying "Can we go home now?" for the eleventy-first time. |
