| Author | Message | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2909 Registered: 7-2004 |
I just got back from seeing Phil & Friends at the Fillmore. Wonderful show, but, maybe it's me and my guitar ears, it seems as if I feel Phil more than hear him. His notes just don't seem as present and clear as I remember in the days of the Godfather and Osage Orange. His lower notes, especially, are difficult for me to clearly hear the melody. I'd sure like to hear him on an Alembic or any other bass that would allow his playing to come across more clearly and distinctly. (Of course I really don't know any other bass but Alembic that does it so well). Nevertheless, it was great to see him at the Fillmore. I've got tix for tomorrow's (or I guess it's really tonight's) Mardi Gras Ball show at the Bill Graham Civic in S.F. Yee haaa! Bill, tgo | ||
| kilowatt
Member Username: kilowatt Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bill, I both understand and agree with what you are saying. I have both basses (Alembic & Modulus), and find the Alembic Cuts through the mix much better than the Modulus. Don't get me wrong about the Modulus, I absolutely love the bass, but it does not match up to the Alembic in terms of tone. Thunder & Lightning was based on Phil's Godfather bass with the superfilter being rack mounted instead of onboard. I would love to see Phil "Drop a few bass bombs" with a new (or his old) Alembic. Please let us know how the show is tonight. Enjoy! Regards, Pete | ||
| spose
Intermediate Member Username: spose Post Number: 177 Registered: 5-2002 |
my favorite Lesh tone is from the early to mid 70's, Alembic with flat wounds. I also like the Modulus tone , but never liked his Ken Smith tone. The biggest difference to my ears is from the smooth sound of the Alembic tone... then he got away from that and started getting more growl, string buzz and round wound tone, which is something I don't care for at all. I hear some recent board recordings that is all click and buzz, like the action is so low all you hear is click/buzz/growl. yeah, that's okay. Phil can do whatever he wants since he's done it all. if it wasn't for Lesh, a lot of us would still be searching for that sound  | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 1071 Registered: 7-2003 |
The Alembic tones were very articulate and represented Phil's touch and timing very well. By comparison, the Modulus (no knock on Modulus) emphasizes the click and buzz (Spose put his finger on that.) where there used to be the sound of a lot of cool technique. Yup. It sounds like Phil Lesh playing a Modulus instead of an Alembic, but a lot of sound gets obscured. Oh well. If not for years of Phil's Alembic sound, I wouldn't know what was missing... | ||
| glocke
Advanced Member Username: glocke Post Number: 305 Registered: 9-2002 |
I dont mind his modulus tone these days, it sounds alot better than what I heard in the 80's and 90's, but I wish he would play an Alembic also. Heck, if I thought he would play Id GIVE him my series I to play.... | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1888 Registered: 4-2004 |
id give him scarlet i agree bill its not clean sounding- maybe its not totally the bass, maybe its the rig too we spoke about this with val when we saw him at bimbo's- damn i wish i could find a sdbd of that show ------------ | ||
| briant
Member Username: briant Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2004 |
While there are good points above (I also own a Modulus) I would point out that you can't rule out the sound man. Over the last 10 years or so I've noticed a horrible trend in live sound in big venues. The sound man likes to dial in the ~120Hz range of the bass and drop off everything above it pretty radically. So you wind up feeling the bass a lot but the note definition is gone. This really sucks when you're watching a really "check out all our notes" band like Dream Theater. John Myung (who is a fantastic player) can be felt and not heard. Very disappointing since he's usually ripping off 1000 notes a second and executing it flawlessly. | ||
| lembic76450
Intermediate Member Username: lembic76450 Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2002 |
I saw Phil in Providence last year and the sound was very muddy with little or no distinction to the notes. With that said though, I have always thought the bass sound on "Without a Net" was pretty nice and I believe that was his Modulus, though I could be wrong. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2912 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hey, I think just maybe Phil (or his soundperson) is lurking around here and saw this thread!!!! I was very surprised and pleased with his tone last night at the Mardi Gras Show at the Civic. This is a much larger venue than the Fillmore. On top of that, the room's acoustics are far worse than the Fillmore's. (The last time I saw a show at the Civic was Dylan, last year, and my wife & I walked out due to bad sound.) Phil's sound system was far larger than Dylan's and up to the task of overcoming the bad acoustics. Anyway, Phil sounded GREAT! It sounded like someone had turned off the ultra-low frequencies and each of his notes were clear and distinct. I LOVE IT when I can hear what he's playing. A great show - Ivan Neville's band opened, then a wild multi-float parade right through the packed throng on the floor (I was sitting in the wrap-around balcony - I ain't 19 no more and this being my 2nd night in a row of Phil & Friends). Great set list: 9:21 -Set 1 One More Sat Nite Brown-eyed Women Pride Of Cucamonga Cold Black Devil Golden Road Midnite Hour Viola Lee> Caution> Viola Lee 10:38p ----------- Set 2 Shakedown Aiko*> PARADE!! Truckin* Jack Straw Saint Stephen > Eleven jam> Unbroken Chain Fire on The Mountain Know You Rider Morning Dew> Uncle John's Band * w/Ivan Neville # organ donor - special tribute # Box of Rain 1:45am (We left at about 12:45, during "The Eleven", as the parking lot closed at 1:00. Next time I'm parking somewhere else!). BIll, tgo | ||
| crobbins
Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 98 Registered: 6-2004 |
When I saw Phil& Friends at the begining of his tour at the Sant Barbara County Bowl, we were sitting dead center about 15 rows above the sound guy. You couldnt even hear the bass. The mix was horrible. The bass was getting buried by guitar and keyboards. I went home very unhappy.}:-( | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 929 Registered: 12-2004 |
Brian, I think that bad sound stems from two things: 1) There is a natural tendency to adjust the sound with your eyes, rather than your ears (and ears need to be trained-- most people don't have a good idea what things should sound like). 2) There isn't really all that much proper pedagogy around being a sound man (and what there is is wrong on a lot of counts!). Many of the "why"s of doing things a certain way are not only lost to antiquity, they are wrong. Let me give a great example: In downtown Bellevue, they have a live concert series over the summer. They have an extensive PA system-- JBL mains and subs, big power amps, etc. What always kills me? They put the subs at either side of the stage. They comb filter like crazy, to the point that you can walk 1 foot into one of the comb filter areas, and the bass just... disappears. Of course, you're supposed to put the speakers on either side of the stage, for stereo, right? Wider dispersion? Bzzzt. Wrongo. But everybody does it. Never mind the sound! Everyone does it! I won't even start in on shrieking tweeters pawned off as "crystal clear highs". I guess sound men are like drummers: it takes a pretty good one to be better than none at all. Bradley | ||
| crobbins
Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2004 |
I did get a recording of that same show, and the mix was better..... | ||
| briant
Member Username: briant Post Number: 91 Registered: 12-2004 |
Very true about the lack of qualifications, Brad. Most sound men don't have any idea what they're doing and wouldn't know a good mix if it slammed them in the side of the head. However it does seem to be a more recent trend with the thumping "just feel it" bass mix for larger shows. I don't recall in the past that every friggin' show had that same obnoxious mix. It really is a good way to turn me off from going to see big venue concerts. If I'm paying $100+ for a ticket I want to be able to hear what the musicians are playing! | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 303 Registered: 2-2005 |
To me, audio in general is being destroyed by rampant use of over compression, but I see the point here being made also. It's all about bludgeoning you now, almost like no one can hear any more, as "hearing" something involves being present in the place you are and paying attention. No one does that anymore. There's no dynamics. Most music I listen to makes me want to tear my eyes out. Or ears. Or something. | ||
| crobbins
Intermediate Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 102 Registered: 6-2004 |
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THANKS PHILSISION FROM PHILZONE i have posted a few 1/26/08 video clips on you tube ... quality is about what you'd expect for a compact camera smuggled in ... but it's something that lets things be relived! this q has a smokey room r&b-heavy feel to it ... which works because the room usually is smokey - shakedown #1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OcKIiFnVWI[/url] - shakedown #2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clJvH1pCkU0[/url] - iko #1: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx6x-67ouGk[/url] - iko #2: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lbo8_XkKKs[/url _________________ | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2913 Registered: 7-2004 |
Just testing to see if the site's working being as NO ONE HAS POSTED today! | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 1073 Registered: 7-2003 |
Just a lot of reading and reflection... | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1769 Registered: 6-2002 |
No, the site was inaccessible for most of Monday. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1601 Registered: 10-2002 |
Back onto soundmen, one of the places big tuna occasionally play has a reasonable PA. The sound guy has his mixer in the bar area about 30feet from the front of the stage. So, does he listen to the sound and adjust it? Nope! he listens to the desk through headphones and bases his mix on that! consequently, the bass is always lost (it doesn't help that the house rig is an ashdown combo). Graeme | ||
| georgie_boy
Advanced Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 321 Registered: 8-2005 |
Graeme When I heard you at BTW-you were NOT lost in the mix! An amazingly good clear and articulate sound. And just an EPIC------------Bahhh | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1604 Registered: 10-2002 |
george. That was our PA (8 channel mixer and a pair of wharfdale powered 12's on poles) and we only put the vocals plus a little of the guitars through it. Our lead guitarist does all the mixing for that and I just turn up to a suitable level. Don't forget, that gig my preamp wasn't pushing the power amp fully due to the near-dead output transistors. Next time we're there, come along and hear how the full rig sounds with the signature. graeme p.s. JUST and Epic? It's still an Alembic ;-) |
