| Author | Message | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2007 |
With most basses, a fretless bass gives the player subtle tonal advantages. The notes seem to blossom more on a fretless. Is this true with Alembic fretless bass as well? I ask because fretted Alembics sound wonderful. Does the fretless Alembic have an advantage? | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1802 Registered: 2-2006 |
I used to strictly play nothing but fretless and still do some. While I personaly don't own an Alembic fretless (yet)I have played Waynes Fretless S-2 and it is without a doubt the most awesome fretless I've ever played. Great fretless tone and smooth note transitions but so much more clear that most fretless basses. Olie | ||
| white_cloud
Advanced Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 329 Registered: 11-2007 |
I used to play fretless a lot as well but became fed up after my sound usually disapeared in the mix live! One of the very best fretless sounds that I have heard live was from one of our very own members - Jacko and his fretless rogue! A simply great sounding fretless bass that punched its way through the mix with (apparent) ease! If that is a common example of what fretless Alembics sound like (and Im sure it is) then I would imagine that there isnt much else available that would be superior. John. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 980 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm very happy with my fretless Orion. It turned out better than I had hoped. It has plenty of MWAH and growl. With the Q-switch on I can even get a fairly decent slapping sound out it. Keith | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 856 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm sure there's at least one cut on James Taylor's October Road CD where Jimmy Johnson plays fretless. I have been playing my fretless Epic the majority of the time for the last year at least, and while I'm not great at it, I'm good enough to know it's the real thing for tone. I'm still getting new insights into how to play it effectively. My Epic is stock bass / treble controls, and I echo Keith's statement. MWAH and growl are both in there, also a very nice upright kind of sound. Mike | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 260 Registered: 10-2005 |
Yes! I love my Epic 5 string fretless. I added the filter & 3 pos Q swith mod, and it really smiles! I think the set neck has a real warm tone and actually adds a great deal to the sound. When I change guitars from my fretted 6 string Europa to the Epic, the sound is uniform, almost the same, except for the obvious fretless quality. I do EQ differently, and add delay/chorus, but can expect the same excellent tonality and familiarity to my signature Alembic sound. Kris | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1686 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks for the words John. I've been playing fretless off and on since I started playing and the rogue is easily the best i've ever had. Plays like silk (as you'll find out in April) and with the 'Q' and filter has as much or as little punch as I want. With big tuna, I'm not using her in a traditional fretless way e.g. pino palladino, as the music is quite agressive but she still has that fretless feel. I think Alembic basses whether fretless or fretted are pretty unique and wil always stand out from the crowd, no matter what music is being played. graeme | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2005 |
I can add some more input here. Compared to my Dean Edge 6 string fretless, my Epic is so much more "alive". The Dean is a bolt on maple neck with walnut pinstripe laminates, and ebony fingerboard. The body is bass wood or something similar. Not a special sound. You have to fight to get a special tone out of it. The Epic however, has a maple set neck with ebony finger board and a mahogany body with Wenge top. There is a superior sound that emanates from the Epic, and quite a noticible acoustic vibe that comes right off the front of the body. It can be felt as well as heard. Obviously due to the superior build quality. But then when you add the Alembic electronics, it will bury other guitars. I did own the John Judge double neck years back, and that was a Series 2 body build with Series 1+ electronics. While some might argue Series electronics are best, I feel the neck-thru design had such a clean sound, it may have been too clean for fretless. I really prefer the beefy midrange sound of the Epic set neck to the Series neck thru for fretless. It's sound character mimicks an upright bass, but without the tremendous acoustic chamber to drag around. Kris | ||
| slawie
Junior Username: slawie Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2002 |
I play my fretless at all the gigs I have had or will have. There was a time where I had auditioned and the band members had some concern at the beginning asking whether the primary instrument would be the fretless. By the time the audition was over I had the job and they had the learnt a lesson in tonal dynamics. Intonation is most important and when it is done right it is hard for the punters to pick the difference between fretted and fretless. Below is a picture of my primary instrument. Slawie  | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6446 Registered: 5-2002 |
Beautiful bass! I like the non-standard position of the selector switch. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1826 Registered: 2-2006 |
That is a very nice Bass Slawie. I would play my 78 Musicman fretless more often but it needs some dire fretboard work (years of roundwound strings took it's toll). It was my sole axe from 1978 until the early 90's. Durung that time I played everything from Heavy Metal, Country, Funk, Jazz....and never had a complaint about sound or intonation. OO | ||
| rolty
Junior Username: rolty Post Number: 11 Registered: 3-2008 |
I play fretless only and until recently have been using a stingray for quite a while... Moving to an Alembic has been a REVELATION! The clarity and ability of the notes to cut through a mix even at a lower volume than before is hard to believe... the other band members are constantly commenting on how tight and clear the bass sounds now, the low notes are so articulate and the high end just sings, there is NO way I am going back from my S2 now...(anybody wanna nice fretless Stingray?) Of course fretless instruments demand some input to learn to get the intonation just right, but its so worth it in the long run, the limitations of the instrument are just raised so much, you can be more accurate without frets as they are only an approximation at the end of the day, and you can compensate for slight changes in tuning etc on the fly... I would say its completely worth the effort if you're up for it! | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1942 Registered: 3-2004 |
Alright, not too get too far off track in this love-fest, but I have to disagree with the initial premise. A fretless does not inherently and objectively have any tonal advantage over a fretted bass. There are clearly tonal and playability differences between the two, but they only become advantages or disadvantages when compared to the player's skills and sonic goal. As far as the Alembic fretless vs the garden variety, I have played only very few and for short periods of time. The Alembic pickups and electronics package provide an advantage over everything else on the planet if clarity and accuracy are the sonic goals. The wood and construction selections seem also to be important considerations. Neck-through Alembics are built for great sustain, and often with dense woods to enhance that further. If that's not an appealing characteristic in your fretless tone, you may need to go with a set-neck model and/or select the woods accordingly. Flats on a fretless with an ebony nut and bridge saddles create a unique and powerful tone. Other than Alembic, I have really liked Zon and Pedulla for fretless tones. I'd still pick the Alembic first by a significant margin. -bob | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 330 Registered: 2-2005 |
I like Pedullas. The bass on Paul Simon's "Graceland" album is a good demo. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5255 Registered: 6-2000 |
With a fretless, if you can hear the right note, you can play the right note. Coming from years of piano, I really cringe at the tempered scale. You can pull up to a quarter tone on a fretted bass depending on how hard you fret and where your action is set, and really good players do this without even thinking about it. When I grow up someday, I will be a five-string fretless player. It's still going to be a while until that happens. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1827 Registered: 2-2006 |
I've heard really bad players pull up to a quater tone too, of course it was always in the wrong spot! LOL OO (Message edited by olieoliver on April 09, 2008) | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1828 Registered: 2-2006 |
OOPs dbl post OO (Message edited by olieoliver on April 09, 2008) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5256 Registered: 6-2000 |
Touché! | ||
| lowlife
Advanced Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 316 Registered: 12-2003 |
Having just purchased Eastcoastepic's fretless Orion-5, I'm about to attempt to get recognizable musical sounds from this beauty. But having played only on fretted basses for decades and knowing full well that I have sloppy playing habits, this should prove to be very interesting. What's a quarter note, and is it important?  Ellery (Lowlife) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 995 Registered: 2-2005 |
Ellery, Those are semi-tones and it's very important that you learn how to use them. Next time the lead guitarist won't quiet down just start talking about the virtues of them and you will be able to hear the crickets chirping in the night air. :-) Keith | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 787 Registered: 6-2002 |
My first ever Alembic was a fretless Excel 4. I was actually shopping for a fretless Jazz Bass that day.....the rest is history. Just the GROWLIEST thing I ever heard. I just fell in love with it. | ||
| jbybj
Intermediate Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 152 Registered: 6-2006 |
Congrats Ellery. I too started messing with fretless only after decades of playing a fretted bass. I was convinced I wouldn't maintain proper pitch. It has been loads of fun and I offer this advice. Don't try playing fretless when your tired. I always notice I'm sounding like crap before I realize I'm just plum tuckered out. Get some LED's! That helped me immensely. Have fun and stick to it, muscle memory will take hold eventually. Peace, JBY | ||
| slawie
Junior Username: slawie Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2002 |
I found that placing a chorus in circuit on the treble pickup through a dual channel amp (or if you can afford it a stereo setup) gives me a little leeway in the placement of my fingers and can offer a little "wiggle room" for hitting the right note. This of course is entirely dependent upon what style of music you are playing as chorus can affect the timbre of the output. There is no substitute for practise! There is nothing worse that sliding up or down to hit the right note. Not only does it sound bad tonally but it throws the rhythm that you are putting down right out the window. Caution! If you dont get it right you may end up the recipient of a colonic investigation by a splintered maple 5B courtesy of the drummer. Kind Regards Slawie | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5264 Registered: 6-2000 |
My friend Trevor told me it was ok to play the wrong note as long as you play it at the right time. | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1932 Registered: 4-2004 |
there are no wrong notes just the wrong time been saying that for years | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1728 Registered: 10-2002 |
James said "Get some LED's! That helped me immensely." When I got my fretted MK and started using the LEDs, I found I needed them all the time. I thought this dependancy would transfer to the rogue making her unplpayable as she doesn't sport LEDs. However, I've found that I've been playing her so long that 'muscle memory' means I hardly ever miss a note, even on the darkest stages. It helps that I'm using fretless on the more mellow songs so a little slide or vibrato can hide a multitude of sins;-) And Mica; Go for the 5 now. the sooner you start the sooner you'll be skipping round the fingerboard like an expert. Graeme | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does an fretless Alembic have a tonal advantage over a fretted Alembic? | ||
| benson_murrensun
Junior Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2007 |
I remember hearing an interview with Jerry Garcia, who said that if you play a bad note, the next time that part of the song comes around, play it again LIKE YOU MEAN IT! | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have three fretless Alembics a custom 5 string 32" with a 7 piece solid purple heart and paduk neck. The instrument is so dense that I use light gauge strings on it 30-105(B!)The density is in the instrument so it's not needed in the strings. With signature electronics,it provides a very finger on string sound. A 6 string Orion standard Mahogany body/Zebra top with the neck pickup next to the bridge pick up like a giant music man and standard Orion 2 band EQ. Very warm and punchy sits excellent in the mix and blends so well with other acoustic instruments most of the time I leave my custom ABG'S at home. Lastly is Jelly (see Feb 2005 Custom of the month) and what can I say? Perfection... the space around each note is a distinct moment in time with a slight natural chorus and natural woody tone. I had a Pedulla Buzz which had a very cool Jaco tone and not much else. I have fretless jazz bass and a handful of others. The Alembics have it over the others in terms of playability and many useful tones. If you should have the chance to play an Alembic fretless spend some time with it the tone you seek is in there. You may be surprised as to how you set the filters and balance controls. One does not simply solo the bridge pickup as in a jazz bass. The extended range and broad frequency band has you backing off the treble quite a bit for that Jaco tone. To answer the original question,I am fortunate enough to own several fretted Alembics as well. In signature,Orion and series 2 electronics just like their fretless counter parts. To my ears the fretted offer a slight increase in clarity due to the frets while the fretless sound just slightly muted due to finger meat absorbing part of the note. Open strings are about equal. The purple heart neck wood has an increased darkness on the E and B strings which is not necessarily undesirable. Hope this helps. | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thank you Barry | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 878 Registered: 6-2002 |
Barry, Great post. Apparently I'm not the only one who hears a "natural" chorus from my Epic fretless. To qoute Adrien Belew: "I Like IT" Mike | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 788 Registered: 6-2002 |
Have you guys checked out this month's issue of "Bass Player" magazine? Jaco's "Bass of Doom" has been found and gets tested by Will Lee, Victor Bailey, Victor Wooten and the magazine's Chris Jisi. Victor Bailey is in my opinion the only honest and objective tester. The others seem so star struck by it that they seem to forget that it's not in the same configuration that it was in when Jaco played it. It's a mixture of broken wood chunks held together by flame Maple veneers and glue. Victor Bailey stated that when he first played it at Mike Stern's loft in 1984 (in it's original condition), he wasn't very impressed with it. He found the neck dead, the action was high and the strings were old. But when Jaco played it that night, "it sang like nobody's business!". He called this version "a really nice fretless Jazz Bass......but still, there's nothing outstanding about it." I think that says it all. Too much credit is being given to the instrument when it's really the person holding it who makes it sing. (Message edited by rami on April 15, 2008) | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1730 Registered: 10-2002 |
Is that the March, April or May issue Rami. We're so far behind in the UK I think we still have the february issue in the shops. Who's on the cover - it'll be easier to spot that way. graeme | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 789 Registered: 6-2002 |
It's the April issue with Randy Jackson on the cover. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1732 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks Rami. I'll keep my eye open for it. graeme |
