| Author | Message | ||
| rockandroller
Member Username: rockandroller Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2002 |
Is there any consensus about who makes the BEST PORTABLE bass guitar cabinet?? One that's worthy of an Alembic! Requirements are SMALLEST POSSIBLE SIZE with decent power handling of at least 200WRMS (I'd just get multiple cabs if i needed more volume) and wide response, especially solid bottom at least for a low E. (Low B might asking too much for a compact cabinet!) The new Boogie combo with the down-firing passive radiator looks promising, but I have no way to try one out. Are the mystic incantations of Theil-Small sufficient to create what I am after?? Any suggestions (or links to web-sites) would be appreciated. Thanks! | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 158 Registered: 7-2002 |
Is there even any consensus about sound? That said, a lot of folks here seem to like the Acme cabs, and from what I've read it seems like the Acme Low B-1 may be the thing you're looking for. I'm intrigued enough that I may try one out myself. Great tight sound in a small package is what most of us would like. And reasonable price too. http://www.acmebass.com/index.html | ||
| mattheus
Junior Username: mattheus Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hi there, a few weeks ago I struggled with the same problem. I wanted a small combo, with a 'big' sound. I've tried several, and finally got myself an Ashdown combo. It sounds pretty cool, reasonable power, and also a connection for an extra cabinet. Otherwise a SWR combo is also great, but that costs a lot more. Asdown website: http://www.ashdownmusic.co.uk Good luck with your search, Mattheus | ||
| dean_m
Intermediate Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 152 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Guys, I did a feature on the Ampeg Porta-Bass stuff a couple of months ago on my website. Here's the URL if you want to check it out: http://www.monotunesmusic.com/portabass.html I've got a couple of them that I'm really enjoying. Peace, Dino | ||
| eschreyer2
Junior Username: eschreyer2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2003 |
Gotta go with the Acme low-b cabs, hands down. Just make sure you have enough power. I have two Acme low B-2 cabs, 50lbs each, and they fit in the back seat of my car. Earl | ||
| dela217
Intermediate Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2002 |
I personally have not tried the Acme. Want to though. But I own a Bag End 2x10 box (the deep one) that is incredible. I have used it with massive power, and low power. Great sound just the same. I ordered mine custom in black too. I think the default is red. Yuk. | ||
| groovelines
Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2003 |
Okay, for you Acme users, are any of you using the "w" versions? For instance, a Low B-2w is the sub woofer version - minus the mid and high - of the Low B-2. Dino - are you using the Ampeg cabs or the combos? Saw your site, wanna trade jobs for about a month? adios, Mike | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 16 Registered: 7-2003 |
I've been looking at the Bag End 2x10 "ELF" or whatever it is called now with considerable curiosity. Is that the 2x10 you have? I too, am looking for a way to get way more portable AND preserve or even improve bottom end. 10" subbass drivers sound like an impossible dream to me, but I want to believe. I am a dinosaur from the generation that believed 15" JBLs were the only way to get clean, deep bass. I only recently started playing again and the first thing I did was to build several single 15" enclosures. One of them actually puts out monumental, clean bottom end (out of an old CTS 150 W speaker), but that's because the cabinet design is "detuned" (see London Power's website if you are not familiar). Detuned cabs are arguably the most economical and efficient way to go -- BUT -- In order to work, detuned cabs have to be MASSIVE (like 2X the size of a regular cab). As much as I'm in awe of the low end my creations produce, they are a big pain to handle. What I'd really like is to be able to donate the 15" cabs to the bassman with my son's band (and be a real hero) and find a vastly more compact rig for myself (...a smart hero). I'm also interested in how much juice it would really take to power a pair of 2x10 Acme's. I get the idea from Acme's site that if you have to ask, you don't have enough power. I'm playing a Hartke 3500 (Mono 350W thru 4 ohm, 240 thru 8). Is that way too low (anyone know?). I'm open to more power if I need to, but the Hartke has good features and I like to tube preamp all in the same package. Bill | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 79 Registered: 1-2003 |
If size is your primary criteria, look closely at the Acme Low B-1. It weighs only 31 lbs and has the same frequency response as the bigger Acme speakers: -3dB at 41Hz and 22kHz, -6dB @ 30.87. Thats better than many hifi speakers. Those figures are anechoic - so with a bit of floor or wall loading your looking at flat to low E and down only slightly at low B. I am not aware of a smaller speaker that sounds as good. I was amazed the first time I played the B-1 that the bottom end was so much better than my 15" cab at half the weight. BUT - and this is a big but - there are no free lunches in the world of physics - the price paid for low end in a small package is inefficency. The B-1 is 90dB with a maximum continues power rating of 175W. This means the max continuous output is 112dB. Fine for practice, double bass, or low intensity rehearsals & gigs. But don't expect a single B-1 to compete with a wailing Fender Hot Rod combo or Marshall stack. The good thing about the Acme range is the tonal balance is consistent across the range. So you could practice / rehearse with a B-1 and then move to the bigger speakers as the situation requires, without having to completely reconfigure your tone settings. | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks for the info, that gives me a much clearer perspective. Actually up to a couple of 2x10 cabinets is more like what I'd be looking to use most places (still offers flexibility to use only one, less to lift at a time, easier to pack in the car). I really want to try the Acmes and will probably just order a 2x10 and play with it. I think they offer a reasonable (2 wk?) period to try them out. Any thoughts on whether my Hartke 3500 head is enough to power a pair of Acme 2x10s? Bill | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 80 Registered: 1-2003 |
350W @ 4ohms will most likely sound very nice through a single B2 at rehearsal or a small gig - but will not drive it to massive volume. And it will be easy to drive the amp to clipping. The suitability will depend on the type of band / music your into. Don't think about trying to drive 2 B2s with 350W. Best bet is to take advantage of Acme's 2 week trial period. Very few are returned - it seems that most players are willing to work around the efficiency issue for the sake of the tone. | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 20 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks. Being somewhat "non-techy", that was what I wanted to know. I am going to try the speakers as soon as budget will allow. I can use the Hartke's preamp with a separate, stronger power amp for the many cases where bigger volume is necessary. The Hartke would probably sound OK for practice, light rehearsal, etc. That's still a big net reduction in the speakers I have to carry against a pretty manageable increase in the weight of my rack gear. Thanks again. That really helps. Bill | ||
| dean_m
Intermediate Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 153 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Guys, I just wanted to pipe back in here to answer Mike's question. I still have yet to check out the Acme stuff but I promise I will. Maybe it's something I should consider for the website?? Anyway, Mike, yes I use both the heads and the cabs, and the 2x10 combo. The PB210 is just a bit underpowered at 250w though. And you can only power one 4ohm cab with it. I use a head and cab along with the combo for louder club gigs. I know it sounds like a lot but the head only weighs 14 lbs and the cabs are 21lbs each so it's a lot easier carrying a couple light pieces than two real heavy pieces. I just can't carry my SVT 3-4 nights a week anymore. Unfortunately, my back won't allow it. Ampeg is coming out with an 800watt @ 2ohms version of the PB head in January. Can't wait to see that. And regarding your second question... NO WAY!!! I'm having too much fun!!! Peace, Dino | ||
| dannobasso
Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 79 Registered: 7-2002 |
I'll be taking the 4 ohm Acme 210 on the road this week with an 5.3 ohm Epifani 310 with a QSC PLX 1604 (500w a side) F1X run parallel. I let you know how it performed. I like it loud, Hope it will be enough! If there are any folks in the DC area I'll be at The Velvet Lounge on Thursday night and Johnson City TN on Saturday. Danno | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 104 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's what I think as of 5 minutes ago. Bill said he was looking for "clean, deep bass"; the Acme B-2 has it. I've had my B-2 for one month. The low end is wonderful; and the super light weight is just a big bonus. (Note: none of my basses have a B string.) However; personally, I can't get the high end sound that I want out of the thing. At rehearsal a few weeks ago (we rarely rehearse) a took the B-2 and an Eden 210XLT, ran them both full range and was able to dial in a very nice tone between them. But practicing at home with just the B-2, I've been unable to get a decent overall tone until a little while ago when I biamped with the low end going to the B-2 and the high end going to a Bag End 210 (D10X-D). The sound really opened up; great low end coming from the Acme with the Bag End providing much more presence in the high end and a much more usable midrange. With fast scales up and down the neck, mid and high range notes were much more clearly defined. This is a good combination for someone who doesn't want to carry heavy cabinets; both are relatively light weight, much lighter than the Eden. The Acme does require a lot of power; and personally, I don't think 350 watts is enough. But then I'm playing with two guitar players and a hard hitting drummer. We're playing at a blues club Friday night and I'm taking the Acme and an Eden. The Eden has a great overall tone and puts out a lot of sound, but doesn't provide the low end of the Acme. But I think it will be a great combination; and I'm looking forward to finding out Friday night. The B-2 is probably great by itself for a lot of players; but it doesn't have the overall sound that I'm looking for. | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 81 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dave, what crossover point are you using in your biamp setup? With a setup like that the B-2W (subwoofer version) would seem ideal. David Burgess | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2003 |
Dave: Please let us know how the two cabs sound Friday night. Thanks Bill | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 105 Registered: 5-2002 |
I agree; the subwoofer version would be ideal if one definitely knew that biamping was the way to go. I haven't yet decided. Friday I hope to have the opportunity to try the Acme and the Eden both bimaped and full range together; but we don't get a long sound check so I may just run full range. Right now with the Bag End I have the crossover set around 420; but I've only just begun playing with it. | ||
| eschreyer2
Junior Username: eschreyer2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi Guys, I was getting some funny phase cancellation last night that was swallowing my low end trying to run both cabs (two acme low b-2's). Frustrated, and slightly freaking out, I went to a bi-amp set up crossed over at a little less than 1KHZ. That did the trick and the rig sounded killer. A quick dive and catch. The gig was great. I think when I run two I'm gona stick with the bi-amp set up. For pratice, or smaller situations, I just run one full range. Peace, Earl | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 106 Registered: 5-2002 |
That's strange. I wonder what caused the problem. | ||
| eschreyer2
Junior Username: eschreyer2 Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2003 |
I must of had a phase inversion in one of paths and the waves were cancelling each other out. But anyway, the acme's make for killer for bi-amp system. Regarding the questions/comments earlier, they make for a great sub, full range, or high end cab.I'm digging the bi-amp setup right now. Earl | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 82 Registered: 1-2003 |
Earl - what sort of cables are you using (e.g. Speakon, 1/4 inch, banana)? Is there any chance the Acme's were out of phase? Also how were they set up physically (e.g. stacked, side by side, separated)? 2 B2s vertically stacked ought to make a killer line array. David Burgess | ||
| jaurigemma
Junior Username: jaurigemma Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hey guys, I am a new ACME owner, and wanted to chime in. You can see a good picture of my rig if you go to the following link: http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/5019.html?1055819346 I bought these because I was tired of the jaded sound my SWR Triad I had (1x15,1x10,horn). I have a B2 and a B4, and love them! You can take my SWR stuff and throw it away, I'll never use it again. I use the 2x10 & 4x10 in large gig situations, but in smaller rooms I'm using just the 2x10. I have noticed that the 2x10 seems to have more bottom end oomph by itself, and the 4x10 is very balanced. I use the 2x10 vertically when I use it alone. I don't run biamped, I run an F-1X preamp to a Crest VS900 power amp. No compression, nothing extra. Pure, unadulterated Alembic tone. The Acme cabinets love power, but my setup doesn't have a problem with that. These things really sing when you hit 'em hard. | ||
| eschreyer2
Junior Username: eschreyer2 Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi David, I have 1/4 from the preamp to the power amp and then banana from power amp to speakers. When I was getting the phase cancellation, I was running one cab with the low pass out of my trace elliot preamp, and the other cab was full range. The only thing I can think of is that the signal from the low pass is out of phase with the full range signal out of the preamp so when you mix them together, the low end got phase cancelled out. If I had a scope and a signal generator, I could send a signal through and test my theory. I am actually an electronics engineer, but I don't have my own lab. As long as I run the low pass and high pass out or just full range, it's fine. The problem was trying to run one full range and the other just low pass. I stacked them on their side. I've done the vertical tower, but I liked the way they looked on their side, kinda like a 4x10. Thanks, Earl | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 83 Registered: 1-2003 |
Earl, aha! I believe the Alembic F1-X exhibits the same phenomenon - the full range output is out of phase with the xover outputs. I have no idea why. It seems your Trace Elliot has the same design quirk. David Burgess | ||
| bigredbass
Intermediate Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 136 Registered: 9-2002 |
The new MESA combos (the Venture 1/15 or 2/10) are the best combo I've heard in a very long time. Fabulous tone, thoughtful features, plenty (640 watts) of juice, and MESA build quality. The best small(er) bass rigs encompass another of Ron Wickersham's innovations: the ELF system from BagEnd. Yes, I know it requires dedicated subs and a rack controller, but for anyone who CAN hear the time smear and the tone mismatch in most bi-amp rigs, it's an utter revelation. Match it with an f2b and a stout, high-quality power amp and every other rig's deep end is a big, sloppy mess. If you ever get the chance to hear one or try it out, don't pass it up! The Acmes seem to have become the defacto standard due to clever design, good components, and a really cheap price. The real disadvantage is as pointed out previously: Due to their small size, they are less efficient lacking the internal volume of more typically-sized cabinets. So bring lots of amp. And remember, VERY few cabinets blow out from a great big amp running cleanly. LOTS of cabinets blow out from amps that are too small running into clipping continuously. A great small cabinet that I remember were the 'Cabaret Series' range that JBL put out in the late 70s and early 80s. You can occasionally run across these. They were built like tanks, sounded fine, and came in a variety of loadings. I always felt that they were an acknowledgement of the 'Wall of Sound' PA. J o e y | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bill wanted a report on my gig last night. Well the rig sounded great. I decided to leave it in the biamp setup with the Acme on the floor and the Eden on top; the crossover was still around 420. At sound check, the drummer complained about not enough definition from his monitor and the soundman said it's the same out front; so I bumped the high end on the preamp a little and that made them both happy. The soundman is a bassplayer, so after sound check he offered to play some so I could hear it away from the rig. Out front he had eq'd a nice tone through the ancient cabs of the house PA; but on stage the rig really sounded nice. Throughout the show I was pleased that my sound was consistently cutting through and yet maintaining a great sounding low end. Dave | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 22 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks for taking time to pass that info along. I'm definitely in the market and feel like I have learned more from this thread than from all sources combined, thanks to you all. Bill | ||
| rockandroller
Member Username: rockandroller Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wow, thanks for all the feedback! I knew I wasnt going to be able afford an ELF active controller system for a bass combo, but I am now MUCH more optimistic about what is possible from a small box, so either the Acme B-1 typa thing or that passive radiator-assisted boogie look like something i shall be owning in the near future. I guess the whole trade-off with "micro" bass cabs is the lack of efficiency, now i'm pondering a solid-state 300W boogie walkabout - as opposed to cranking 150Watts out of a half-dozen 6L6s (which was never ultra-portable to begin with) Anyway thanks very much to everyone for their suggestions :-) | ||
| dannobasso
Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2002 |
I found the F1X, T310, B2, 1604 combo worked great but I think that a bigger amp would serve me better. I'll try the 2402 I have instead. As others have said, Acme's crave power. (so do Epifani's)I have to compete with 2 4x12 Marshalls! I also refuse to haul SVT cabinets. I did see others moving them when I was down south, not me! | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 84 Registered: 1-2003 |
FYI - I had a rehearsal last night using a F1X + QSC PLX 1202 bridged mono (allegedly 1200W into 4 ohms) + B2. It was plenty loud - won the arm's race - was able to enforce mutual disarmament (i.e. everybody turn down). But the clip light flickered ocasionally when I really hammered it (playing with pick) The PLX2402 gets good wraps in Talkbass driving 2 B2s. I did a couple of gigs last week with a PLX3402 (1100wpc into 4 ohms) driving a B2 and B4 stacked. That was very nice. |
