| Author | Message | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 238 Registered: 1-2008 |
I have recently acquired a 6 string bass (Carvin LB76) and I'm having a fit with the setup. First off, the bridge was not positioned very well. As a result I have the saddles extended all the way out on several strings, yet they are still a little flat on the intonation. The neck relief is about where I want it, but it required a disturbing number of twists of the allen wrench (dual truss rods should be a requirement on ERBs). The fret rattle is crazy (especially on the B). I have the action much higher than I would like in order to quieten it down. Is there anything I can do from a string perspective that will address some of my issues? The strings are tapered DRs... would a non-tapered string nudge me in the right direction as far as intonation is concerned (the flat intonation is not "audible" but it drives me crazy knowing it's not "perfect"). A thicker "B" would give me more string tension, but I really don't want rebar for strings. Ironically I started using DR HI beams because of the uncomfortably HIGH string tension I noticed with my first Alembic, but is there a string that has an inherently higher tension that might help me out? | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 878 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey mike, Did you buy it brand new from Carvin? They have a comprehensive no-hassle 5 year warranty. If not, I'd suggest by starting out with a similar guage and style (non-tapered) of strings as it originally came with. Remember that Carvins originally come with high quality Labella strings, which are in my opinion (and that of many top professionals) the best strings made. First set the neck relief, then the bridge saddles to the string height, then with a digital tuner (I pefer needle types like the KORG BT-2) to set the intonation. You'll have to loosen and retune the strings each time you tighten the truss rod or move a bridge saddle (Very important). There's alot of back and forth required, but eventually you'll get it. It can be long and tedious but patience is the key. ALL of my Basses (including my custom 6 string Alembics) have driven me nuts at one time or another, but a careful, gentle hand and LOTS of patience always prevailed. Good luck, Rami | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5786 Registered: 6-2000 |
Can you describe the procedure you're using to set the intonation? Heed Rami's good advice, he knows what he's talking about. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 239 Registered: 1-2008 |
Thanks for your response guys. The bass is new. I received it with tapered LaBella strings, but I changed to the DRs (I prefer steel strings to nickel). The "set-up" from the factory had flat intonation pretty much across the bridge, yet the saddles were nearly run all the way out. I was able to intonate all the tapered strings except the "D" (it's off by about 1 cent). The non-tapered "C" is about 2 cents off. I may be having heartburn over nothing since that is not even audible, but I just think they should be paying closer attention to their tolerances. Re my setup procedure: I pretty well follow the instructions in Joey's setup post. I'm wondering if a new nut might help. The bass has a plastic nut and it appears to me that the slots are cut too deep. Mica, I apologize for discussing another vendors instrument at this site. However, anyone who has spent much time at any of the other forums knows why I come here with all my questions!!! | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 879 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Mike, If you feel that with the stock strings and stock setup that there was no way to set proper intonation across all the strings, then I'd suggest calling their technical department and describing the problem. They may ask you to send it to them for a checkup. For warranty service, they'll refund your shipping costs. I also suggest that you don't consider replacing the nut without checking with them, as this may affect your warranty. They have an excellent customer service. Just give them a call and you'll see. Best wishes, Rami | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2006 |
If you're using a needle or LED tuner, every one I've seen specs on is only accurate to 1 cent - so the reading on the D is off by the margin of error & you may actually be spot on. If you have access to a strobe tuner, try with it - they're accurate to 1/10 cent. If you're already using a strobe, never mind - call Carvin as Rami suggests. Peter (Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on January 23, 2009) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 880 Registered: 6-2002 |
Also remember that with modern guitars/Basses, their construction involves computer controlled routing for pickups, controls, and mounting holes for bridges and tailpieces. Unless something went really wrong during construction, they have a high and extremely accurate repeatability. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 240 Registered: 1-2008 |
Rami You're right about the computer routing. However, I did read a few other complaints about this same issue at the Carvin forum. I believe they recently changed the bridge to a Hipshot A-style. I wonder if the old bridge had more "travel" for the saddles (and if it did, did they change the template to compensate?). I've continued to work with the setup, and it's definitely playable: there is no AUDIBLE intonation problem and although the action is a bit high, I can deal with it. The fret rattle (and thus need to set the action high) may be my poor technique more than anything else. This is my first experience with a six string bass. I remember having a fit with my Spoiler when I first got it (my point being that Alembics are intolerant of sloppy technique). I think I'm going to really like the 6 string for the extended HORIZONTAL range it gives you. I really don't find myself going for those notes not available on a 4 string. Right now I'm driving my poor wife CRAZY doing hours of redundant fingering exercises. Once I reach a comfort level with this bass, I will be looking to pick up an Alembic 6 string. I figure Dave will be tired of Karma pretty soon (LOL). | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 881 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, Another important point to note is that too much neck relief also shortens the scale length sometimes to a point that cannot be compensated for by the bridge saddles. I set my necks as straight as possible before adjusting the bridge. I fret down on the 1st and 15th frets on the lowest and highest strings. I set the neck to where there's ALMOST no space between the string at the midpoint and the fret, just a light clatter. Then I lower the saddles to just before when the string starts buzzing - I check it at every fret. Then at the very end do I set the intonation. Sometimes environmental changes or leaving a Bass unplayed for a while can throw everything off again. It's long and tedious, but a Bass is like a living thing that needs constant attention. It's well worth the reward at the end. I always get compliments from other Bassists about how my Basses play and feel. It just comes with experience.  Best wishes, Rami (Message edited by rami on January 23, 2009) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 7380 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike; your conjecture appears to me to be highly improbable! | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 241 Registered: 1-2008 |
Awww, come on Dave... I wanna play it too!!!  | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 664 Registered: 11-2005 |
Mike, I agree with Dave as I've had the pleasure of personally seeing/hearing Karma and it's beyond words. Though I think Dave would've let me try her out I did'nt bother asking out of respect. As for your issues also keep in mind that your bass came from Southern California to our E. Tennessee single digit chill down we've been having. It may take a while for it to adjust to our climate. Also, is it a 35" scale and if so did you get xtra long scale strings for it? That could make a difference. I seem to recall changing the strings on a 5 string I owned which sported a 35" scale and I also had problems intonating the D string. I had used a set of regular long scale strings not xtra long. Try putting your old strings back on just to see if it will intonate properly and if so this may be your problem. whoo! | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 243 Registered: 1-2008 |
Hey Adam The LB76 is a 34" scale. The intonation was off with the LaBella strings as well. You could tell they tried to set it at the factory, but they also "ran out of screw". I'm probably making too big a deal of this issue, but I've never had a bass where I had NO wiggle room for the intonation. Interestingly, I did have this problem with my Les Paul. I had to buy new (uncut) saddles and turn the E and A around backward (from the stock position) in order to set the intonation. It's really interesting going back and forth between the 6 string and one of my 4s. Playing the 6 string is kind of like swinging a weighted bat in the "On Deck" circle!!! | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 882 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wow Mike, I really wish I had your Bass in my hands to examine. I've never encountered an intonation problem I couldn't fix. I'm out of ideas to suggest here, but maybe it needs to be looked at by a pro technician (who you trust). Rami | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1604 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would be very surprised if Carvin let it out of the building with a problem. I would call them asap and send it back. They have an excellent reputation for making things right. John | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 884 Registered: 6-2002 |
I totally agree John. Mike, at least call Carvin and mention the problem. Their service is excellent, and they'll pay the shipping charges for warranty service. I also own a recent LB76 and have no such problem. Their quality is excellent and I'd also be VERY surprised if they sent an nstrument out with such a flaw. Rami | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 251 Registered: 1-2008 |
Since the PUP height doesn't matter so much on an Alembic, it did not occur to me (until last night) that it DOES matter with "regular" PUPs. The PUPs were REALLY close to the strings on my Carvin. I lowered them and VOILA!!! The intonation was dead-on (although the screws are still run all the way out on a couple of the saddles), the excess string noise disappeared, and the general tone is much improved. Doh!!! | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 887 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, Since pickups have no physical contact with the strings, they cannot have any effect on intonation. Intonation is strictly a function of string length, tension (tuning), and location of harmonic notes in relation to fretted notes. The only direct adjustment is the forward or backward movement of the bridge saddle and neck movement. I suspect that since you did not make any further adjustment of the bridge saddles, there must have been slight neck movement due to environmental conditions (Temperature, Humidity), or even how the Bass has been sitting (on its back or standing upright) in its case. Changing the pickup height will affect how well the magnetic field captures the string vibration. It may sound weaker or thinner, but it will not have any effect on intonation. You may notice slight changes in the intonation from time to time but that's normal. I think that fiddling with the pickup height may introduce other changes that affect the sound that you may not ultimately like. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 252 Registered: 1-2008 |
I agree with what you said, so that must be the case. I did make some major adjustments to the truss rod, so it may just now be settling in. I've been wrong about so much other stuff that I was just assuming there was some property of the magnetic field that somehow affected intonation. I'm just glad it's "on" now. I'm using the 6 string as a vehicle to learn to read music. This is REALLY like starting over. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 888 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's really great Mike. And you'll find that you're Bass will play and sound better over time. I find that the more interaction I have with a Bass, and with the occasional tweaking here and there, it settles better. It really gets "Broken in" and fits like a comfortable glove. I suppose that's the appeal of a vintage Fender. The nicest compliments I get for my Basses (feeling, action, playability and sound) are usually for those that I play the most. Best wishes and many years of enjoyment. Rami |
