| Author | Message | ||
| tomhug
Junior Username: tomhug Post Number: 34 Registered: 7-2008 |
Start the day with some innocuous controversy.:-) Coldplay Refutes Plagiarism Claim, Disses Satriani in Court Not a huge fan of either artist myself, they're in the "(probably) won't turn 'em off if they come on the radio, but probably wouldn't buy a CD" category. I thought Coldplay's recent Grammy performance was effective. Thoughts? Opinions? | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 601 Registered: 1-2003 |
Given how Coldplay went out of their way to give kudos to Kraftwerk for "Talk", I think they probably didn't deliberately rip Satch - but the songs are awfully similar. Coldplay should just apologise and split the royalties on that toon - it would mean much more to Satch than it would to them. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 497 Registered: 3-2004 |
I've heard a little about this in the press. Seems more like a case of "you've only got so many chords to work with," than "hey, let's rip off Joe Satriani." I guess no one knows for sure, except Coldplay, but there have to be genuine cases of independent synthesis that result in products that are remarkably similar. (Message edited by hydrargyrum on April 08, 2009) | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 641 Registered: 11-2007 |
Going to have to check this one out - Im a Coldplay fan but definitely not a Satriani fan. Sounds interesing that Coldplay would rip him off as there is a most definite clash of styles - but who knows! John. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 498 Registered: 3-2004 |
Here is a link to a comparison on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvB9Pj9Znsw. After reviewing, my personal opinion is coincidence. I'm not a fan of either, but I find the debate interesting. | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 642 Registered: 11-2007 |
After listening to both I think its coincidence! I can understand why the comparison has been made but for me, no - it isnt a rip off. Coldplay are very forthright about their influences and have openly admitted to using their own musical peers for certain parts of coldplay songs (the drums from "hounds of love" by Kate Bush for one example) Its not impossible that they have used the Satriani riff but Imho unlikely. John. | ||
| karl
Intermediate Member Username: karl Post Number: 151 Registered: 7-2002 |
I say coincidence. The Coldplay guys aren't stupid, they know the deal with copyright infringement and they've been happy to give credit in the past where they had consciously ripped something off. It's probably simply that one or more of them had heard Satch's tune once in the past and it just happened to come out subconsciously when they wrote this one. I know I've done it in the past - wrote what I thought was a great original melody, then took it into rehearsal only to have my keyboard player say something like 'Hey, isn't that the middle eight from 'Ladies Night'?' And he's usually right - I hadn't intentionally copied the melody, but I must have heard it and 'absorbed' it. Certain combinations of notes just sound good over certain chord progressions. And there are only so many notes and chords - some of these are bound to get subconsciously copied from time to time. K. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 499 Registered: 3-2004 |
How many songs have the exact same chord structure as "Wild Thing," just as an example? Another good reason to doubt is that I don't believe anyone out there actually listens to Joe Satriani:=). | ||
| jedisan
Member Username: jedisan Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2008 |
I check out the posts over on the Talk Bass forums on a fairly regular basis. Don't know how many of you do the same, I was thinking of asking at some point. This situation between Satch and Coldplay has been extensively discussed at Talk Bass, including some pretty good legal arguments form individuals currently studying music legal issues. If you are interested in reading more on this issue, I would recommend reading the thread at Talk Bass. Even though, I think this is a case of "just one of those things," from my readings, I think Satch has a fairly decent case. Of course, just my humble opinion though. Lot's of stuff about this on YouTube as well. | ||
| peoplechipper
Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 74 Registered: 2-2009 |
I hope it's coincidence; I don't find Satch's song inspiring; on the contrary, the over-compressed thing that it is sounds like a guy who's spent way too much time doing product demos at music stores, left his soul in albuquerque or something... | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 500 Registered: 3-2004 |
Everyone has their own taste, and I sure don't mean to go claiming mine is better than anyone else, but in my opinion players like Satriani, Steve Vai, etc. seem to be trying to write music to impress guitar players. I don't know of anyone who isn't a guitar player who listens to them. I'd much rather hear someone like Modest Mouse, or Lou Reed, who may not be able to keep up with these guys technically, but who make every note count a little more. | ||
| jbybj
Intermediate Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2006 |
"Everyone has their own taste, and I sure don't mean to go claiming mine is better than anyone else, but in my opinion players like Satriani, Steve Vai, etc. seem to be trying to write music to impress guitar players." I have never really been inspired to explore Steve Vai's solo work, but when I saw him play with Zappa, it was astounding. Many of the same flashy virtuoso acrobatics, but under Zappa's direction, in the context of his group and his music, Vai was awesome. Very similar experience watching Adrian Belew play with Frank. | ||
| jedisan
Member Username: jedisan Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2008 |
James, I do agree with you. This style of guitar player really appeals to the guitar god type of fan. A couple of years ago, I attended an Ibanez sponsored show at NAMM, featuring Satch. While being able to respect and appreciate his prowess as a guitar player, for me, after about a half dozen songs, it all started to sound the same. And as far as Coldplay is concerned, I have always regarded them as U2 lite. But hey, I can in no way argue with their success. Heck, the song won a Grammy for goodness sakes. But really, all this don’t mean anything as far as the lawsuit goes. My money says Coldplay will play hardball hoping Satch backs down. And if he doesn’t, they end up settling. (Message edited by jedisan on April 10, 2009) (Message edited by jedisan on April 10, 2009) | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 501 Registered: 3-2004 |
Don't get me wrong James, I'm a huge Zappa fan, and definitely enjoy Vai's playing under his direction, but I couldn't touch his solo stuff. Zappa gave those guys a purpose I don't really hear in their playing otherwise. Once again, just my personal opinion. | ||
| jet_powers
Senior Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 444 Registered: 2-2003 |
I once saw Satriani open for Bowie but forgot all about him when Belew blew him away as part of Bowie's band.... not that this is sport or really anything to do with this thread, but the names dropped here jogged that memory. | ||
| peoplechipper
Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2009 |
More examples of where putting limits makes the art; this is the size of the canvas, these are your colours and this is the subject-go crazy!!! put a limit on many folks and it starts something good; no limits, and you have scribbles on a page.... | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 644 Registered: 11-2007 |
Vai & Satriani? I think it boils down to that same old argument once again - technique vs feel. Monster technique is no substitution for simple music that comes from the heart! It doesnt have to be complicated to touch people. Its a strange thing though - I am a massive Allan Holdsworth fan (his music appeals to me on an emotional and intelectual level...it touches me) yet I would rather isten to Kenny G than Vai or Satrianis solo material - go figure! John. | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 603 Registered: 1-2003 |
John, I think you are touching on the essential difference between art music and folk music. Occasionally an artist can successfully transcend the distinction - think Zappa or Chopin - but it is incredibly rare. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 1015 Registered: 3-2004 |
I Had an opinion but then in hindsight eh... (Message edited by dannobasso on April 11, 2009) | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 580 Registered: 9-2002 |
"Vai & Satriani? I think it boils down to that same old argument once again - technique vs feel. " exactly. There are two guitar players I play with that makes this statement hit home. One plays very simple, yet tasteful and elegant licks, and has a great feel. The other has monster chops and can play almost anything, but lacks any emotion in his playing. As for the topic at hand, seems more like a coincidence than anything. | ||
| jedisan
Member Username: jedisan Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2008 |
Actually Danno, I think your opinion was pretty right on. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 1016 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks, I'm guessing you saw it before the edit? Or you like the eh. I'm gonna go hurt myself on some Gentle Giant and Chris Poland files on my iTunes! | ||
| jedisan
Member Username: jedisan Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2008 |
Yep, you guessed right. Read it in my email before coming back to the club. Even though Satch doesn't really do it for me, I do agree he is an industry within himself that carries itself to others, and I thinks that's a good thing. | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 685 Registered: 8-2005 |
Well, I've ben following this thread with interest. Coldplay???? Give me peace!!........or inScotland................geez a breck!! After having read the aforementioned articles, I decided to see/hear, if my mental state had altered. SO I put on "The Extremist" Good by Coldplay How can anyonre compare these 2 in the same breath??? Awaiting the flack!! | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 2190 Registered: 6-2002 |
The plot thickens - Yusuf Islam (tafka Cat Stevens) claims that Satriani took the melody from his 1970 "Foreigner Suite". | ||
| gyonnii
Junior Username: gyonnii Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2009 |
Yeah , Cold Play sounds like joe Sat with some Jeff lynn ELO flare LOL, same musical chord grooves but two different audiences. With the quality of crap pop that is turning out today we should be so lucky to have this happen, now All I need is for Britney Spears to turn the opening line into a vocal melody!! with some dance moves...there you have it welcome the world of Cookie cutter records! | ||
| peoplechipper
Intermediate Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 109 Registered: 2-2009 |
So if pop stars are plundering prog rock for melodies, maybe we can pick what tune is next, or which band is next to be plundered...I'm saying RUSH. maybe we can wager a bag of bad cover tunes or something on it...Tony |
