| Author | Message | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 645 Registered: 11-2007 |
Well, here is a technical question from probably the most technically backward member (I just aint interested - I simply wanna play) here at the club! I use the D.I. output from my small Trace Elliot 130watt GP7 combo into my Mackie P.A. (passive desk/active 400watt speakers) and just recently my guitarist was given "dire" warnings about the dangers of me doing this from some, lets say musical "peers" Any way this has spooked my guitarist somewhat and he is now taking a bit of persuasion about me continuing to do so! As far as Im concerned this is exactly what a D.I. feature on an amp is for??? Am I missing something??? We only play small venues, whats the problem!!!! Give me your advice and help me ease (or confirm) his fears folks! John. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1258 Registered: 2-2005 |
I use the D.I. on my Eden Navigator quite a bit. For recording or using my own mixer I go direct. When I go into boards of unknown condition I go from my D.I. to an isolation box to the board. The only issue I have had with the isolation box is related to bad AC line grounds. When the circuit has a bad ground I will sometimes pick up radio stations. This is resolved by plugging into the same circuit as the mixer (which is considered best practice anyway). Under these circumstances removing the box eliminates the problem however you are now grounding through the D.I. which is not good. As I recall Graeme fried his D.I. going to a board problems. The isolation box will prevent this. Keith | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2004 |
white cloud..what dire warning are these?? Electrocution?? your bass sounding like and Argos catalogue special?? Hope you use RCB when plugging in anyway..he is talking out his a***e. DI gives the best signal to a PA system. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 571 Registered: 1-2005 |
I wonder if it was a soundman complaint - IME a lot of soundmen just want the signal right out of the bass through a DI box - they hate to get the DI out of an amp, maybe because they are worried that it's post-EQ and that you'll overload the board? I have definitely encountered several soundmen who were really stubborn about this - maybe your guitarist received "advice" from someone like that? | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 1018 Registered: 3-2004 |
My thought is that if the signal is good, its good. If it can't be reduced through gain and is still overloading then adjust it at the source. Perhaps it is a phantom power issue? I play and do sound and I have to deal with folks who only have a comfort level on one thing. To avoid problems I just let them do their thing and then afterwards they say what a great bass sound it was either when I was playing or when they were performing. Comfort level in the studio, ie recording engineers who say that my F1X- SF2 rig with Alembics can't get a good enough sound to record. I had to bring in an Acme 410 because they couldn't mike the El Whappo Jr to good effect. Oh Really? Yes really. The same guy who after a perfect take straight through told me I had to do it again because the compressor setting changed. Oh Really? Yes really. I suggest you have whatever you need for every situation, separate DI, pedal pre's, your own mics etc. It really avoids headaches. You can then feel superior in silence but may have to explain the smile on your face when others are miserable. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2240 Registered: 2-2006 |
I'm with Danno here, what ever the sound-guy wants to use I let him. I do find that most want to use there own external DI. I also thought most DI's on bass amps are switchable, Post EQ or Pre EQ. I'll check my 2 rigs tonight when I get home. OO | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1259 Registered: 2-2005 |
The D.I.'s on Eden equipment are switchable between pre and post EQ. In the case of the Navigator you can select pre or post compressor and pre or post EQ. Keith | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 952 Registered: 6-2002 |
I really like the sound of my direct out on my GK1001RB. I use it post EQ against most sound engineers advice. Once they get the signal though, they are happy about it. With the GK you can send the post EQ signal, but there is a level control which you can turn down the output sent to the FOH. Once I get the level set, I use the Bi-amp outputs for the stage level. I really don't mess with the tone controls too much anyway, but I really just use the contour control depending on the bass I am using. It's just a bit of a mid cut as I use it sparingly. Doing it that way I know I get the punch I want to the FOH guy. Most of those guys really don't know how to get a decent bass tone anyway and this gives them a good start. I have an Eden Traveler 550 and a 2x10 XST that I use for a practice amp. They say that the output for the DI is switchable from pre or post EQ. I can't figure out how to switch it. Anyone know? Thanks, Michael | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 646 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hey, guys...most of you are talking "double dutch" as far as Im concerned! Im very grateful for the input though so thanks! The DI option on my Trace is also switchable between pre & post eq but once the unit is di'ed to the desk it only works on the post setting - why? I havent a bloody clue!! I guess I really need to to start reading up on this stuff. The bottom line, however, is - am I okay to keep di'ing my Trace into the desk for live play??? Someone please give me a simple answer as my head is hurting  John. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2244 Registered: 2-2006 |
If it only works "POST" EQ while ran to the board/desk, I would say NO don't use your amps DI. This way any changes you make to your stage tone will not affect the house sound. OO | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1260 Registered: 2-2005 |
Mike, I think that the selectable pre/post EQ DI is only on newer units of the 550. I'm not sure when the feature was released but believe it is sometime after January, 2008. George, The basic reply is yes you can continue to use your DI like you always have. The are some caveats about how to set it up, when not to use it, etc as mentioned above. Keith | ||
| gyonnii
Junior Username: gyonnii Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2009 |
Bottom line I say is to give the Eq work to the sound man he has got to keep the board from overloading, one channel overloading from heavy bottom puts a lot of strain on the op amps and other circuitry in the board so when directing out go pre Eq and hope you have a sound man with good ears, or post EQ and you must do some homework like playing your loudest notes and lowest and see how the board reacts while everyone else is playing also and plugging in power to the same area as the mixer helps prevent ground phasing and picking up your favorite local radio station, otherwise go post EQ and tell the sound man to start out flat EQ from you and maybe you can do some adjusting if needed, you may have to get use to a new sound on the stage just as long as you know you are thundering out front (Message edited by gyonnii on April 13, 2009) | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2172 Registered: 10-2002 |
Keith - "As I recall Graeme fried his D.I. going to a board problems. The isolation box will prevent this." this is exactly right. The phantom power coming from the desk had burnt out a transistor somewhere in the output circuit. It was a relatively straightforward fix but I ALWAYS keep an isolation transformer plugged in to ward off those evil sound guys and their powered XLRs ;-) John. Apart from the above problem which would affect your amp, the only reason not to put your bass throuogh the PA is if it's a really small/cheap set-up with speakers not really designed to handle the bass frequencies. You'd be better off finding out what your guitarist's concerns are. Graeme | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 647 Registered: 11-2007 |
Graeme, the PA is a Mackie and features two 400watt (800 watt) active speakers running from the passive desk - we have ran everything through it on many many occasions with no problems. For some reason someone has bent his ear about damage to the speakers from my DI'ed amp, surely this is unlikely?? Its in his nature to be cautious and now Im trying to convince him all will continue to be well - I need club members knowledge here though. The PA was certainly not cheap (we bought it new) and the sound quality is excellent! I see no reason from what I have read here why I should stop DI'ing! John. | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1083 Registered: 6-2002 |
Do you mic the drums as well? I'm just guessing, but I'd suspect if the entire band is running through 2 400 watt speakers, once the volume gets pushed past a certain comfort level the powered speakers might well "bottom out". This would be a subjective listening experience, changeable by volume settings and differing locales. Also an in-line limiter might be kicking in, causing an effect similar to the early Yardbirds recordings (anybody else remember "I'm A Man" as covered by the boys)? Mike | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 768 Registered: 11-2004 |
White cloud, is there a second switch for line out/DI out on the amp, if there is then it should be set to DI out then the pre setting should work. The gains on the amp are not connected to the DI circuit so overload is not an issue, all you are sending is a low voltage signal which is balanced to the input, even then you can adjust the gain at the desk so how can anyone overload the active units? I still think he talking out his a****. |
