| Author | Message | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 566 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have a mid-seventies Fender Pro Reverb, and I had read once that a person could plug into one input of the normal channel, and then run a speaker cable out of the second input, into one of the inputs on the vibrato channel. The idea being that you can produce more gain. I have read of similar things before, but I wanted to check with knowledgeable folks before I fry my amp (and myself). | ||
| lembic76450
Intermediate Member Username: lembic76450 Post Number: 153 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've been doing that for 35 years, I used to do it to my Showman back in the day and have been doing that to my F2-B ever since. It really fattens the sound. Not a dumb question. Kenn | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3837 Registered: 7-2004 |
Let me get this straight, are you guys saying that the #2 input on the non-vibrato channel doubles as a pre-amp out? I once wired my champ so that the #2 input was, in fact, a pre-amp out so I could use it in front of a big amp, but this took cracking it open and resoldering some wires - and then it no longer worked as an input (I assumed). I'm finding it difficult to understand how the input can simultaneously be an output too. Is this really accurate? And if it is, shouldn't the patch cord be an instrument cable (shielded), rather than a speaker cable (unshielded)? As for the F2-B, I've heard of (and tried) patching the OUTPUT of channel A (from the back of the unit) to the input of channel B, but I've never heard of stringing the INPUT of channel A to the input of channel B. Bill, tgo (Message edited by lbpesq on May 21, 2009) | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1664 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think what's going on is that you're "ganging" both preamps in parallel, thus providing more gain.. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2409 Registered: 2-2006 |
Actually Bill the 2 inputs I believe on BOTH channels are wired parrallel. So basically patching from #2 input of channel 1 to either input of channel 2 would be the same as using a "Y" cable form your guitar. But you are right, use an instrument cable NOT a speaker cable. The yellow indicates parrallel connecters.  | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2410 Registered: 2-2006 |
I used to run my Twin like this. And John is correct, you're utilizing both preamps this way. OO | ||
| lowlife
Advanced Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 365 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have a 2008 '59 Bassman reissue and the quick set-up card depicts the same thing. The amp's goodie pack even came with the 6" patch cable to boot. Totally different sound when both channels are used. Ellery (Lowlife) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3840 Registered: 7-2004 |
So this is using the two channels independently at the same time, not ganging channel 1 though channel two? In such a case, a different tone might be realized, but there would be no increase in gain, correct? Bill, tgo | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 567 Registered: 3-2004 |
Okay so one more question, does the volume control for the Vibrato channel set the overall volume in this setup, or are the volumes of the two channels independent? I thought that an instrument cable seemed like a better choice, but the post I read specifically said speaker cable, so I wanted to be sure. Thanks for the replies everyone, I should be getting some tubes in the mail (maybe today), and I'm really looking forward to giving this a shot. I was afraid that this question was so obvious that everyone would think I was an idiot (now everyone will just have to find another reason  ). | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2416 Registered: 2-2006 |
Well if both channels have their own tube or preamp you probably will get some extra gain. And both volume controls did work independently of one another. I used to set channel one clean and over drive channel two and use their own volume controls to blend the 2. Made for some cool sounds, a,most like 2 guitars at once. You are correct Bill, it is using the channels simultaneously all at once! ;) OO | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2417 Registered: 2-2006 |
Kevin, a speaker cable will work and won't hurt a thing, as far as I know, BUT you will get some serious noise and RF interference. OO | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 569 Registered: 3-2004 |
That's kind of what I thought. Thanks again. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 570 Registered: 3-2004 |
I had a chance just briefly to try this out when I got home (my tubes had arrived), and I am really liking it. Thanks again for the help. By the way, I know other people have raved about Eurotubes.com here, but let me just add another positive endorsement. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 482 Registered: 10-2006 |
I recall back in the days when the backline had to push the stage sound to the back of the room seeing guys with multiple amps doing this, then chaining the other Channel 2 input into the second amp, which was also chained channel-to-channel (and so on for as many amps as you want.) Peter | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 752 Registered: 8-2005 |
A famous old thing with multiple Marshall amps! | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2420 Registered: 2-2006 |
Very kool Kevin. I think the more you play around with it the more you'll like it. Peter, I used to do that with my old Kustom amps I had back in the 70's. I had 2 100 watt head and 2 2x15 cabs and would daisy them just like that. I HATED those Kustom amps too. They were ugly, I had a black one and a green one. Sounded terrible but they were cheap. Sold them both and purchased a Peavy 400 head and a Peavy 2x10 cab in 1977 and played that rig until 1991 when lightning fried it in Muenster TX. OO | ||
| john_judge
Junior Username: john_judge Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yeah back in the day Jimmy Hendrix use to run his Marshall on thirty five!! and he use to cross channel it with curly cords!...hmmm nice and quiet! and great signal....loss.and lots of noise ...I was there at age 15 Woosely hall, New Haven, Ct outside of Yale, my friend Ronnie was a stage hand and I got to see his rig with the cables and holes in the speaker cab's but it was a high energy loud show.Townsend also did the cross Channeling with his Hiwatt's. Yeah also those Custom amps I had a this hugh Bass cab, I think it had either 3-15's or 3-18's in it, we carried it up a flight of stairs to this studio to do my very first recording session ever when we got to the top we set it down and knocked on the door and my guitarist stepped back and yes knocked it down a flight of stairs and it broke through some paneling, so we brought it back up and into the studio and it worked fine except for the tears in the green padding..very heavy bottom. By far my heaviest rig was my Hiwatt DR203 with the 4x15 bottom 265lbs but clean and punchy Picture of Jimmy I took while standing on the stage in front of the P.A. getting my ears blown off but it was worth it.. I was in my glory at age 15 but you can see the type of cords he used and holes in the Cab's , photo is 5x7 taken with a old Browning with a side arm flash and top viewfinder (old school rig then) 1968 enjoy John  | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 484 Registered: 10-2006 |
Kustom was the amp of choice in SE Ohio in the 70s - Fender or Kustom for guitar, Kustom or Sunn for bass (I always liked the red sparkle). And they had a life-time warrenty: you break it, they replace it. A friend of mine fried his (gold sparkle w/a purple jewel light), and no questions asked. In the 80s I sometimes did sound for Aaron Burton (and saw him a lot more) - he had a Kustom 250 rig that had been in a bar fire. The tuck-&-roll was burned off, but it worked just fine. I also once (and once only) saw a Kustom organ - picture a B-3 with amp & speakers built into the front, in white spakle. Very pimp. Sounded OK, too. Peter | ||
| xlrogue6
Intermediate Member Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2002 |
You can indeed jumper your Fender(or, for that matter, F2B) inputs that way (and yes, use shielded cable, not speaker cable!), but be aware that the channels are out of phase with each other, so some frequency cancellation will occur. Of course, it's possible you'll like the sound better that way, but you will lose some low end by using them simultaneously. | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 205 Registered: 9-2004 |
I used to have a mint Kustom 200 with a big 2x15 cab back in the 70's. Poor sound, but loud. My mother was baking cake once and left the house and I cranked the amp up with my guitar. When she got back the cake had fallen in the oven into a crumpled mess! I never told her why.... | ||
| laytonco
Member Username: laytonco Post Number: 97 Registered: 3-2005 |
"...and then run a speaker cable out of the second input..." Is this right? I would think you would need to use an "instrument" cable. Gil | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 571 Registered: 3-2004 |
You are correct Gil, as someone cleared up a couple posts back. I thought it was weird too, but that was what I had read in the post, so I felt compelled to verify it. Kent, I was wondering if there something like phase cancellation going on. As I turned up the volume on one channel, there is a point where the volume dips slightly. I suspect that this was the point where both preamps had nearly equal volume, and consequently, maximum phase cancellation. From my limited efforts in this vein, I observed that this effect is pretty well masked when the volumes of the two channels vary by a large enough amount. So even though there was some cancellation, the sound seemed more beefy than either channel on its own (I wouldn't necessarily say more bass, just thicker somehow). | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1283 Registered: 2-2005 |
I played through one of those 3 - 15" Kustoms back in the 70's. They were heavy and tall. I finally settled on Acoustic 301's and 370 heads. However with age comes wisdom so I dumped the heavy stuff. ;-) Keith | ||
| john_judge
Junior Username: john_judge Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2009 |
OOOPPPSS! SORRY DOUBLE POST (Message edited by john judge on May 22, 2009) | ||
| john_judge
Junior Username: john_judge Post Number: 42 Registered: 4-2009 |
Instrument cables are a must! and as short as possible to retain signal..I mean measure from input to input and if you can use a 1 or 2 footer or custom size one then go for it. Yeah on the bass rig I used an acoustic 360 and a 260 "Y"ed together it actually had a great presence because of the horn. My next rig was the Hiwatt DR203 4x15's with the Sunn 880 Coleseum with 2 x 18's and a custom made cab with 2 x10 Gaus speakers Power by a Crown 300A amp and a Bogen preamp it was a statium wall of sound. I also used 1 time 1 day a Marshall that was a complete clone of the Acoustic 360 we called it the bathtub it had a reversed 18" speaker and sounded like Crap!..not even close to the Acoustic 360. I brought it back the same day. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 858 Registered: 11-2004 |
John_judge..did you need a crane to lift that rig?, or some very Arnie Schwarzanegger type roadies? God knows what the Thiele-Small calculation is on a 4 x 15 cab. It must have been a huge cab to cope with amount of reverse air push. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 573 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm using a patch cord that's about 1 foot long, and it seems to be working great. This has been a cool experience, like owning a new amp. | ||
| john_judge
Junior Username: john_judge Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yes Terry, it would blow your pants legs around when set on even Two they wern't very popular because they were so hard to handle but what a great presence of sound. I was Told by the Hiwatt Rep in New York City where I purchased it that Keith Emerson used one on stage for his Organ and a 50 watt Hiwatt Bulldog to monitor his organ. I once used a 50 watt Hiwatt bulldog for a guitar amp for recording and they are well worth the money if you can find one. Cheers John | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1668 Registered: 10-2003 |
My first real bass amp was a 2x15 Kustom cabinet and an Acoustic 370 head. That was one of the better sounding setups I think I've ever played through. My brother had 2 of those cabinets and the Kustom 200 head, which was a killer setup.. |
