| Author | Message | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 420 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Jaco’s 1962 Fender Jazz Bass “Bass of Doom” Found!" "By Chris Jisi" "It’s official. We can all set our sights on locating James Jamerson’s long-lost ’62 P-Bass “Funk Machine,” because the most famous missing bass guitar of all has been found. Jaco Pastorius’s fretless 1962 Fender Jazz “Bass of Doom” (as he dubbed it) has turned up in New York City, ..." [moderator's edit: copyrighted material] (Message edited by davehouck on May 23, 2009) | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 421 Registered: 12-2004 |
"OOPS"!!!! (Message edited by serialnumber12 on May 23, 2009) | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 422 Registered: 12-2004 |
Here's more http://www.bassplayer.com/article/jacos-1962-fender/mar-08/34267 | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 939 Registered: 4-2005 |
Wow, thanks! | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 678 Registered: 11-2007 |
I dare anyone here to read this posting by serialnumber12 and belittle the achievements of Leo Fender! There was an intrigueing thread elsewhere on the club forum about "vintage vs new" where some members pondered wether or not old Fenders are worth the cash - how much would this axe be worth?? Indeed, has Will Lee, Victor Wootens etc objective collective judgement been clouded by the legend attached to this bass?? I think not, it is what it is - it must be kinda like finding Gandalfs staff!! John. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8099 Registered: 5-2002 |
John; to answer your question, it's not worth anything to me. I have an Alembic. I can certainly understand that others might like to have this bass; but I'm happy with mine, and I have no desire to acquire a Fender. | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 680 Registered: 11-2007 |
Apreciate your point Dave and it is well made! It is your perogative to have no taste or intrigue as to Jacos Fender but I find this an interesting subject as Jaco was arguably one of the greatest exponents of the electric bass. Im sure many of the bass enthusiasts here at the club will however (like me) find this an interesting topic. In fact it is arguably the most famous bass in the world! I guess to me its just a big deal as Jaco was an important influence. John. | ||
| chrisalembic
Junior Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2009 |
I actually love Alembics and Fenders (and maany more basses;-)). I mean they are two different animals for sure, but just as I have a wide taste in music I also have a wide taste in basses. And talking about vintage instruments. I once played an original 63 Fender Jazz Bass, and to be honest it was one of the best basses I have ever played. Dont ask me why but the feel, resonance and sound were simply amazing. And I am definetely not a guy who likes an intrument just because of the hype, age and mystery connected to it. It has to play, feel and sound great. Thats all. I am sure the "Bass of Doom" must be an amazing bass!! Also I have to agree with you John. Jaco is also in my eyes one of the greatest Bass players ever. I guess a lot of people are partial to this because of the tragic and abusive course his life took. Because of this there are videos and recordings where Jaco's playing is really not that amazing, and merely a display of his inner chaos. I can understand when people cant really see Jaco's true genius then. But to those I say check out "Havona", "Dry Cleaner from des Moines", "Port of Entry", "Opus Pocus" etc. The list goes on... you see I am a Jaco enthusiast:-) | ||
| chrisalembic
Junior Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2009 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cyw3foWTyo goodness!! | ||
| john_judge
Junior Username: john_judge Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2009 |
All I can say is An instrument is like a Scepter, each Magician has his own and works his magic according to the need of what power he is trying to achieve from it. Jaco indeed worked his Magic from the Bass of that era. So what if the rules changed, what if Jaco had an Alembic to play back to back against the Fender whould he still be Jaco..yes but would he still be the Jaco that we know? maybe not. I say this because I have seen people play scales and parts on one Bass in a music store or on stage and struggle and then on another brand and fly through it. Bottom line, That person just found his scepter that suites the power he is trying to achieve.Thus he produces his or her's Magic on the Bass or instrument of choice. Give credit where credit is due..but do not Discredit the individual who seeks himself and to do so he must accept change..whether it is a New Bass or the individual doing a new technique instead. Moral of the story is... There is a little Jaco in all of us but if you own his Bass it doesn't mean you get his Magic along with it..Just inspiration to find your own Magic. peace to all my fellow Bassist | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8101 Registered: 5-2002 |
John (white cloud); it's not that I don't find it an interesting subject. I do think it's very interesting; I read the entire article. I also have, and have read, Milkowski's Jaco biograph; and I have three Jaco CD's and the Big Band tribute CD, most if not all of the Weather Report stuff, a Joni CD or two, the Metheny CD, a Joni DVD, a Weather Report DVD, the Jaco instructional DVD, probably some stuff I'm forgetting, and a bunch of downloaded mp3's including some of the Live in New York bootlegs. So it's not that I don't think it's interesting; I like Jaco a lot. I like practically everything about his playing. It's just that you were referencing the question of old Fenders being worth the cash; and I have no desire to own Jaco's bass. I love listening to him; I just don't want to sound like him. | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 681 Registered: 11-2007 |
Yes, a fascinating thread indeed! Just to hold the bass that Jaco used as his main axe, the bass that he probably used to compose "portrait of tracy" and "continum" - the bass he recorded "birdland", "a remark you made" and "havona" with - wow, that would do it for me. To think of the "magic" as the great John Judge beautifully puts it that Jaco created with it, the sweat, blood and tears that this bass witnessed. To me that is what makes this instrument special. With my own personal spiritual beliefs I have no doubt in my mind that this bass absorbed a lot of Jaco's energy and vibration...quite haunting really! Dave, I think that all any of us can hope for as musicians is to sound like ourselves - to aspire to sound like Jaco would be to miss the point. To want Jacos bass to simply sound like him would be to miss the point. The desire to own, or even touch his bass however is something different - it would be no different to simply wanting to own or touch one of the late great John Entwhistles Alembic exploiters if you were a big JE fan. I guess when the time comes and Stan Clarke has deceased (hopefully after a very long and healthy life might I add) the same desire/allure will be felt by many towards his Brown bass - of that I am certain! In 30 yrs time the community here may be obsessed with "wheres the brown bass?" Lets just be glad that Jacos bass for one has been found! Peace brothers! John. | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 674 Registered: 7-2007 |
To hold and play any of Stanley Clarke's Alembic basses, whew. A great wish for my "bucket list". That's a whole other thread ;) When you happen to be blessed in knowing the kind of mojo that goes along with a particular instrument that you may be privileged to holding and playing surely sweetens the flavor. | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 675 Registered: 7-2007 |
BTW, the Jaco article in Bass Player is dated March 2008. | ||
| crobbins
Advanced Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 365 Registered: 6-2004 |
That bass is a piece of musical history. It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.. (Message edited by CRobbins on May 23, 2009) | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 676 Registered: 7-2007 |
Having the opportunity to touch history is thought provoking. And inspiring! (Message edited by artswork99 on May 23, 2009) | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 864 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have read this, I became bored with all the virtues of this bass and I agree with dave and john. It's the person who played the instrument, would this bass be worth as much if it was a danelectro or EB0? I love Jaco but as dave says I don't want to sound like him having said that you can get a 'Stanley' sound from an Alembic but that is the instrument. We all plagarise no matter what but there is nothing wrong with that 'cos then you can develop you own style. But to put so much importance on two pieces of wood is a bit 'head in the clouds' for me. I would rather have Jaco alive today and have his bass in the incinerator if I had my choice. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 318 Registered: 1-2008 |
Devil's advocate here: HOW could this instrument still have any structural integrity after being broken into 15 pieces? I know: "the glue joint is stronger than the wood"... but still. I wonder if the next illogical step in the "relicing" of new instruments is to break the bodies up with a sledge hammer then glue them back together between veneers of Maple? Not really a "Hippie sandwich" but a "Homeless sandwich". I think the difference in opinions here is a matter of perspective: If you are a Jaco fan, this bass is the "Magician's Scepter" (per John's metaphor). In that case, who care what it sounds like: it's an important artifact. If you're looking at it from the perspective of a used bass... it's firewood. However, if 3 of the most technically advanced bassists of our time say it has Mojo... I guess it does. Interesting story. I'm sure there will be lots of legal wrangling over who actually owns this bass. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1284 Registered: 2-2005 |
I'm a pretty big Jaco fan but I have no interest in handling or seeing his basses. To me the music came from Jaco not the instrument. The instrument was just a tool of which Jaco did use more than one in his career. He still sounded like Jaco. Now if one could somehow distill the essence of Jaco, or any number of other great bass players for that matter, I would gladly take a swim. Keith | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 677 Registered: 7-2007 |
"I would rather have Jaco alive today and have his bass in the incinerator if I had my choice." If this were a choice I feel the same... since it is not I'll gladly accept the mojo left behind. (Message edited by artswork99 on May 24, 2009) | ||
| eligilam
Intermediate Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 176 Registered: 2-2006 |
The Bass of Doom was sort of like the Holy Grail for a long time in the bass world: mysterious magical object that had disappeared and lived only in legend, etc etc. It was pretty intriguing to follow.... Once they found the Bass of Doom, they posted a video on www.bassplayer.tv (go to "Main" then to "Jaco's Bass") that showed a bunch of famous bass players passing it around in a dimly-lit room and commenting on it. I found that a little disturbing--- some of the faces are digitally obscured, some are wearing sunglasses---it had all the makings of an underground bass porno. I would think they would put the Bass of Doom behind glass instead of passing it around like a wench in the hull of a pirate ship. Just my opinion. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1666 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would suspect that the bass greats who have played this bass would feel some compulsion to say it "has mojo" if for no other reason than: a) it did inspire one of the greats of our time, much like roundwounds on Danelectro basses inspired John Entwistle. and b) it helps connect their musicality to Jaco's on a sub-conscious level. I.e. if they didn't feel the "mojo" maybe it's because they don't have that special something Jaco did.. It's as much about P.R. (for them) as it is about music, in my opinion.. As for the bass, it's a beat-up Jazz Bass that's been pieced-back together by somebody who knows a lot about repairing instruments. I would expect the front and back laminations are all that's holding it together, and who knows what's underneath. It may well be different wood altogether, as it would be impossible to know otherwise. I think Jaco would sound and play like Jaco on any instrument, while I would sound and play like I sound and play on the Bass of Doom. Any real historical value disappeared when it was put back together with new materials. John | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3853 Registered: 7-2004 |
It would be an interesting experiment if one could collect several old, beat up Fenders of similar vintage, then stand them all up together along with the BoD, like a police line up, then bring in the "bass experts", don't tell them which of the old basses was Jaco's, let them play the various basses, and see if the BoD stands out on it's own. This could be done with any old iconic instrument (Clapton's "Blackie" or "Brownie", a Hendrix strat, etc.) Is the "mojo" really there on its own, or does knowing that it was "Jaco's bass" create a "placebo effect"? BIll, tgo | ||
| rraymond
Advanced Member Username: rraymond Post Number: 361 Registered: 6-2002 |
All this talk about history. My wife and I watched the English movie, "The History Boys" last night. A story about a bunch of kids studying to get into Oxford, or Cambridge. At one point, an instructor asks one of the kids, "What is history?" To which the kid replies," It's just one F'ing thing after another." I laughed my arse off. | ||
| gare
Senior Member Username: gare Post Number: 434 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'd have to agree with alot said here. Bass of Doom is a historical piece, what's left of it. After reading that article when it came out it seems that all the rebuilding would have degraded it's value..if it wasn't Jaco's. Jaco was a fantasic bassist but the instrument was a tool, not the talent. As Mr.Judge so nicely put it, if you find the instrument that fits you, that can open up some creativity, inspiration or whatever you want to call it. Even after owning several, I've never been a big fan of Fender basses..but that's just me. But if they were to sew Jaco's hands on me..well that might help a bit. Gary | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2008 |
I wonder if Picasso had a favorite paint brush. If so, is there a market for it and what would it sell for? Is that somehow different from a musical instrument? | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 866 Registered: 11-2004 |
If picasso used a fence brush his paintings still would be great If Hendrix used a Encore guitar from the Argos catalogue in the UK..he still would great, so would McLaughlin, Coryell and all the others. Same with Jaco. It's the person who's mind is inventive and can translate that inventiveness to their fingers..that is the important issue here. I like the history definition..how true is that LOL | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 683 Registered: 11-2007 |
I disagree completely, To compare a paint brush to a musical instrument is not an accurate comparison at all. One is used to make strokes, shapes and pictures upon a variety of materials, it appeals to our eyes and subsequently our senses - the other is used to make tone, sound and music...it appeals to our senses through our ears! I also simply am flabbergasted that some members here at the home of the worlds finest hand crafted guitars/basses honestly believe the finest guitarists in the world would sound as good on a cheap catalogue guitar. If that is so then why have any of us bought Alembics? Jaco's passing was a tragic shame but in the end it doesnt matter - life is a cycle of birth, growth, decay and death, we will all have our own epitaphs. Yes he died young but it was inevitable that he would die at some point anyway. Any one reading this thread should bring to mind their greatest musical influence/hero and imagine that influence/hero living out the tragedy/genius that Jaco did - imagine the effect that person has had upon you and ask yourself, "would I love to hold my heros bass? how special would it be to me?" The finest musicians are able to translate their ability to audiences with instruments that they have found an affinity with. This bass is truly precious, despite its many perceived shortcomings to all fans of Jaco Pastorius regardless for very obvious reasons.. John. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1670 Registered: 10-2003 |
The bass was his tool, just like the brush is a tool. To suggest that Jaco wouldn't have mastered music on another instrument is ludicrous. When I saw him perform in Nashville sometime in the mid-1980s he was playing a fretted Jazz Bass, and sounded like Jaco. I bought an Alembic because it made it easier to consistently get a variety of great sounds. The Alembic cleaned up my technique more than I ever would have guessed as well, but ultimately it was and is just a really good tool. I've heard plenty of really average players playing Alembic basses, and I've heard a lot of fantastic players on Fenders and lesser basses. To imply that a solid or semi-solid instrument plays that large of a determining role in a person's musicality seems naive to me. John | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 684 Registered: 11-2007 |
Nobody has stated that this instrument played a large determining role in Jacos musicality at all - it has merely been stated that the bass is important and of great value and importance because it was Jacos main instrument of choice and it has history. It is famous and loved because it was Jacos bass not because it made Jaco sound so good! What is so hard to understand about that? Are you telling me that the paint brush set used by Piccaso would be of no value on an emotional or financial level at all to art lovers - are you telling me that the sword used by General Custer at little big horn or Neil Armstrongs space helmet would be of no value to collectors???? To me the mindset that this bass is of no importance or value is naive! Ponder this - If Jaco had used a vintage 70's Series 1 as his main bass to write on and on all of those famous performances, and it had been stolen and been missing for many years and suddenly turned up in the same way as his Jazz has, rebuilt and all, every one of you would be going crazy over it and its importance. Fact. This must be the only bass forum on the internet that claims this bass to be of no importance. I couldnt care less about Fender, Im sure they couldnt care less about you, I or this forum but in the interests of fairness the motive driving this debate seems to be an anti Fender bias perchance? John. (Message edited by white cloud on May 26, 2009) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1288 Registered: 2-2005 |
For me I would have the same feeling about an Alembic. I have no desire to play Stanley's instruments on an emotional level. You could say Stanley's basses are as important as Jaco's BoD as far as music history, collecting, emotion, etc. goes. As a matter of fact Stanley was and is a much greater influence on me that Jaco. I also don't bash Fenders. I still own the 76' Jazz Bass that was my main instrument from when I bought it new until I bought my Brown Bass. It remained my main bass even after I had bought my Orion 5 string. I still base requirements for long scale neck dimensions on it's dimensions. I think the real thing here is some folks feel an emotional connection to Jaco through his bass and others don't. I happen to be in the second group. Neither position is right or wrong it's just the way individuals connect with things in their lives. Keith (Message edited by keith_h on May 26, 2009) | ||
| pas
Intermediate Member Username: pas Post Number: 186 Registered: 3-2003 |
All the horses and all the King's men can never truly put Jaco's bass back together again. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1672 Registered: 10-2003 |
John, No offense intended, and I apologize if it appears otherwise. In my opinion, the bass of doom would be significantly more valuable to a collector if it were still in pieces as Jaco left it. Being rebuilt with new materials makes it a different instrument in my mind, but if it speaks to your soul otherwise then who am I to question? I do believe there is a significant component of PR underlying all of this, but good PR works because it resonates with the target audience in some way, shape or form. John | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 489 Registered: 10-2006 |
"Any one reading this thread should bring to mind their greatest musical influence/hero and imagine that influence/hero living out the tragedy/genius that Jaco did - imagine the effect that person has had upon you and ask yourself, 'would I love to hold my heros bass? how special would it be to me?'" Well, John, Townes Van Zandt speaks to me more than just about anyone but the Grateful Dead; he & Robert Hunter are my only nominations for Greatest English-Language Poet of the 20th Century, he was (until his various habits wore it down) a superb guitarist, and his train wreck of a life was at least as tragic as Jaco's. Would I love to have Townes's guitar? Yes, absolutely - but because a Gibson J200 is a REALLY nice guitar, not because it was his. I've also seen video of him playing numerous others, and he sounds like Townes. Garcia was immediately recognizable as Garcia on Rosebud, or a Travis Bean, or an Alvarez-Yairi dreadnaught, or a borrowed instrument. A friend of mine, one of the best all-around guitarists ever (who you, alas, have never heard of), used to have a 1953 D-28 that had once belonged to David Bromberg (no slouch himself) - when I played it, I sucked. I sucked with a better tone, but I sucked. The mojo, for me anyway, ain't in the instrument. Peter |
