| Author | Message | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2009 |
Ok here it is as promised, I am seriously thinking about making it first into a mini Piccolo for the ability to do serious soloing on in a short scale neck. The resonator principal in this case works as, a transducer pick's up wood neck & body vibration to add sustain while a mini battery powered condenser mic pick's up the the string presence and tones as they pass through the vented holes on the face plate and reflect back off the center thus you can then blend this sound against your electronic pickup's to get a semi hollow body/ acoustical upright tonality. I have done 3 prototype test with this system first one not as successful, second much better and the 3rd was on the money. I have now submitted the plans to Mica to be passed on to her mom and dad for review. The concept for this bass was something futuristic, aggressive looking, having the nice arm rest like of the Exploiter and just being again a one of a kind type design. Years ago when I met with John Entwhistle we found that we both had an admiration and passion for and about birds, in fact I use to have a pet Hawk. I drew a sketch that day on the table and told me I should have it built, he liked it, years later John pursued his passion for birds in a Bass, so I feel there is nothing wrong with me pursuing mine...I made some drawing changes to bring it up from originally what was the Screaming Eagle Bass.... thus I present the Raven Resonator Battle Bird-1, enjoy and any questions fire away ,John judge  p.s. the headstock and electronic area design are not final for I may have to make some mod's for more room for electronic circuitry | ||
| gare
Senior Member Username: gare Post Number: 448 Registered: 11-2003 |
Very cool John. What types of wood are you thinking ? And your plan is for a 30.75" scale ? The resonator is an intersting idea, love to hear it. Gary | ||
| southpaw
Advanced Member Username: southpaw Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2004 |
John: Thank you for showing me your prototype resonator at the party and chatting with me, it was a pleasure to meet you. I will be watching the progress of The Raven, best of luck to you and please keep us posted on the progress. Southpaw (Paul) | ||
| gregduboc
Intermediate Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 159 Registered: 11-2008 |
John, that is indeed very "futuristic, aggressive looking", and I like it. I like the "Bird Tailpiece"! And now, I'm trying to visualize it, specially that inlay... Awesome. Thanks for sharing it with us! Greg | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2008 |
Now THAT is something new and unique. I am generally not a fan of non-traditional looking guitars, but I really like this. I especially like the headstock: it keeps the strings linear from bridge to tuning key. If I understand the electronics correctly, you are blending: 1) Regular PUPs 2) Piezo 3) Condenser mic Is that right? | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yes that is basically correct mike, tonal vibrations are picked up from the body by transducer, while the mic picks up string twang and notes played that resonate sound in the chamber through the holes and hit the center of the face plate and reflect sound into the condenser microphone, which in turn you get the beauty of blending the PUPs against the semi hollow body sound with some direct string sound, giving you much more variables. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 585 Registered: 3-2004 |
Very cool idea. I only have to wonder where the hum canceler would go. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2009 |
it will probably get buried like my doubleneck was done only maybe under the cavity box | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 356 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hey, I've been looking for a backup for my piccolo bass. I'll take one. | ||
| crobbins
Advanced Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 368 Registered: 6-2004 |
I like the red lazer feature. Very cool bass.. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2009 |
It very well could be a possibility Hugh, I never mind sharing my Idea's with the Bass community 30 years ago I might of been looking to corner the market on having a unique sounding Bass but today at 55 year's old I am looking at creating interesting things so my mind doesn't start to drift into the world of Outer space and still maintain a great sounding Bass Via Alembic. what kind of gauge strings you using on the piccolo Hugh? | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 357 Registered: 2-2005 |
They're the d'Addario set, I can't remember the gauges. One thing I've noticed is, on a long scale neck, the tension is incredibly tight when tuned to 440 -- I typically tune a half note flat, which renders them tight, but more playable. If I did look into another, I guess one thing I'd want to explore is the way the scale affects the tension and tone. I had a baritone guitar for awhile, and it seemed "floppy." | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2009 |
Tension is always a factor with Piccolo that is why I recommend going with a short scale, it work's great! you can bend notes without the tension and fear of busting a string which I have done before on long scale Bass but never on short scale. If I do make a Piccolo version of the Raven it will be short scale. | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 358 Registered: 2-2005 |
Yeah, I know most of them are. But there's a certain twangy-sound to my piccolo I really like. Admittedly, I can't bend for shit. | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 359 Registered: 2-2005 |
It's a beautiful design, though. I could definitely see myself playing one. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2359 Registered: 3-2004 |
A beautiful piece of art, but it looks fragile and challenging to play. Looking at this instrument makes me think of the bat bass with the inlaid top wood that shows curves and points that aren't really there. I realize art is subjective, but I'd find this much more approachable with a more "normal" overall body style and a top of contrasting wood in the beautiful shape John has drawn. I think this would look great as a raised top on a body with a shape approaching a softer version of an Exploiter. Maple over dark walnut, or maybe some kind of ebony over maple or spruce. Such a design would have advantages in durability, ability to play comfortably in a seated position, and added space for a more complete and functional control cavity. I tried drawing something, but I suck with Photoshop. I was trying to add my idea of the "true" body shape to round some of the edges and, move the controls and jacks into the newly created space and off the attractive design pieces. That would also make the drawn shape stand out better without the controls imposing on the art. If this idea resonates a little, maybe someone will take a shot at a drawing, or I can try to print it out and hand draw it to scan back in. | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 718 Registered: 11-2003 |
I've got to agree with Bob here .. don't know if I'd want this for myself. This being said .... If John likes it and Alembic can make it happen, that, in the end is all that matters. If it were me, I'd cut down on the number of "points" in the design. It may be comfortable playing while standing, but I don't see this bass being comfortable while sitting as designed. Again, John is the one playing it, so if it works for him, that's all that really matters in the end. John, I wish you the best on this design/project. Best Regards, Alan | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 490 Registered: 10-2006 |
If John were having this made for me, I'd agree with Bob - make it an inlay or relief carving, and have less chance of bodily injury. As I have heard of no such plan on part of the esteemed Mr. Judge & this is all his, I say cool beans - can't wait to see how it turns out. You threw me a little with "resonator" in the title, though, John; my first thought was "A Dobro-style Alembic!?!? YEAH!! Cut me off a piece of that!" Peter | ||
| crobbins
Advanced Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 369 Registered: 6-2004 |
But the Raven still beguiling all my fancy into smiling, Straight I wheeled a cushioned seat in front of bird and bust and door} Then, upon the velvet sinking, I betook myself to linking Fancy unto fancy, thinking what this ominous bird of yore - What this grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt, and ominous bird oi yore Meant in croaking «Nevermore». | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 62 Registered: 4-2009 |
The Idea in general Bob was actually to create a piece of art that would make a powerful statement and to tell the truth here I was really trying to get away from following the Exploiter which to me has about been overplayed as a standard for large back tops and is someone elses design. I am looking for a powertool of tone and a Bass that makes a statement and is challenging, as far as the points all edges will be beveled and the top back will of course be angled for maxium comfort and arm rest. So all the points that you see are more exaggerated before rounding over occurs for comfort but while still mantaining the vision of the art in such case as the Bird of Prey. P.s great words on the Raven Edgar Allan(Parsons)Poe! couldn't have said it any better to sum things up it's about pure freedom and being able to express yourself through a artistic tool of sound and beauty. Please don't take me wrong everyone, I love the Exploiter, I have an 84 myself but sometimes you have to reach out and go beyond, after all thats how the exployer, exploiter, Spyder, destroyer came into the world and the list goes on and on, simply put it all starts in someone's head then on paper! such is the case of the Raven (Message edited by john judge on June 02, 2009) | ||
| chrisalembic
Junior Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2009 |
I like it!! And I think "Birdseye Maple" might be a good choice here;-) | ||
| lmiwa
Intermediate Member Username: lmiwa Post Number: 195 Registered: 2-2008 |
John, Very interesting concept when you presented it at dinner! You mentioned that you had done 3 prototypes. Do you have recordings/samples of the third one? I think we would all love to hear how this will sound. Loch | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2009 |
Loch ,Yes I do and will put it together shortly I just want to lay it out properly so everyone can hear how it changes and the blends affect the sound | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1624 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sounds like there should be a 'john Judge' line of custom order only alembics??? | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2362 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks for the answer, John. I see two practical problems that you and Alembic will need to overcome before this design can become a reality. First problem is that electronics, particularly Series electronics, take up quite a bit of space. You just don't have much available space in this body shape to house them. Have you guys already discussed and solved this one? Second problem is related to the first. If you want all the switches on that small area of body, it's going to have to be hollow. That's a pretty thin piece of wood to begin with and, if you hollow it out, it will lose that much more strength. Clearly, with all the other points, this is a fragile instrument, so maybe this part being extra fragile is no concern? -bob | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yes, Mica and I have discussed about widening the body in that area and exactly which electronics that are going to be used yet are not etched in stone. I actually copy protected 3 different drawings with some variables in case of changes in width and Height of the Horn area's but this one is the Basic element of the visual I wish to capture. To continue the Piccolo discussion Just to explain this design thoughts of how it came about is simply like this... throughout my travels I have seen 2 guitar players two drummers and two Keyboard players in bands all and most of the time but very rarely 2 Bass players except for Soloist. So my first thought is to make a Piccolo with a mini whammy bar on it. Look at it this way John Entwhistle had it made, for his playing situation was perfect for a Bassist withTownsend slamming power Chords and not much lead behind him but most Bassist don't have that element of music in their Band. Thus having A Bass player and Maybe a soloist or even a guitar player can use this to solo on, then you have the option of using Bass and Guitar effects with a whole new Band image of possible two Bass players, or you can use the Piccolo version with an Octave box when needed. Basically the possibilities are endless. So for the Piccolo Soloist I am leaning toward a 30.75 Scale due to easy string tension and just enough for the whammy bar but neck may have to be Graphite with a locking system, that remains to be seen. I don't know about everyone else but I would love to see a kick ass Bassist playin with a fellow Bassist layin down some dominate 7ths, 3rd's 5th's, Major and minor stuff behind him and some melodic patterns, or even the guitar player pick's up the Piccolo and he and the Bassist Rock out together instead of he and another guitarist. It be a pretty cool sight to see. I like change! after all if we didn't have change I still be playing a silvertone Bass through a Custom amp and we would not be Alembic owners. (Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009) (Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3896 Registered: 7-2004 |
Spinal Tap: "Big Bottom". Three bassists! Bill, tgo | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1701 Registered: 10-2003 |
Short memory, Bill? Chicago Gathering: Three bassists! John | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 66 Registered: 4-2009 |
LOL! exactly!.. but you do remember when you see it, hear it and feel it! That's the beauty of it all! Bill, I rest my case! LOL! and John supports my case(Chicago) ! but question Bill, do you think you can enjoy yourself Playing a Piccolo Bass solo in a group while your Bassist was laying down the groove, would you find it interesting or challenging in the fact that you can either play it as you would your guitar in a sense or take on another dimension of technique and apply it as you see fit. Not a trick question just want to hear the feel of this from a guitar players point of view regarding whether the Piccolo idea is workable in a band with a guitarist taking a crack at playing it. Please Bill if you would...John | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2363 Registered: 3-2004 |
John, you're hovering on the edge of a discussion of instrument roles, and that path will lead your thread wildly astray. If you want to go there, that's fine, it's "your" thread, but know what you're getting into... | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2364 Registered: 3-2004 |
To answer your last question, John, absolutely. You can have a "traditional" band with some rhythm section (guitar/bass/drums), then add a keyboard, second guitar, or horns as a lead instrument and make it work. There's no reason why that lead instrument couldn't be a piccolo bass, especially since it's just another "guitar" with a slightly different range and tonal character. There are roles to be filled in a band scenario if the goal is a traditional style of rock and roll, and which instrument fills them is up to the taste and talent of the individuals. Expanding beyond rock and roll, worst case is you create a new style of music. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2009 |
Just wanted to hear a guitar players point of view about the Piccolo Idea before I decide what to build first. As far as the instruments role that will be up to who ever plays it and how they apply it, I just wanted to hear some voices on conceptional applications. I mean I know how I will use the instrument, but just curious how others would do with such an instrument. This is why it is a thread and open for discussion, but on the other hand if some Bassist hates Piccolo's it still doesn't mean I won't build one anyway, it just means I might take into consideration some valuable points that might have been made prior to building and not waste time saying, I wish I thought of that before. I am only 1 mind in a community of Bassist and even though it is my design I like hearing what other players have to say about the concept of Piccolo. The Bass will come to life one way or another but whether long scale or short or Piccolo remains to be seen. So if this thread goes a bit wildly astray that's Ok I will just sort through what valuable information appears that I might have overlooked during the design and the applications of the instrument. To me application is just as important as the instrument itself it help's to develop all it's potential strength's and weaknesses prior to building | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2009 |
BOB...Totally agreeable and thanks for your concerns | ||
| sonicus
Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 78 Registered: 5-2009 |
I saw a show once that where Ron Carter was playing his acoustic Piccolo Bass along with a Bass Octet! Yes 9 acoustic Bass's. Wild ! He autographed the program book for me that I may still have somewhere. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 69 Registered: 4-2009 |
WOW! WOLF that must of been totally awesome to see, The most I have ever seen on stage in a band environment was 4. Did everyone just take turns or was it just one large mass of sound and was everything and everyone distinguishable as far as being able to hear what everyone was doing? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3899 Registered: 7-2004 |
John: I recently picked up an Orion baritone guitar - I believe it is a 28" scale. I'm not sure where this fits into the great scheme of things vis-a-vis a piccolo bass. I've been messing around with it and slowly introducing it to my band. My initial attempt is using it on "Sea of Joy", the old Blind Faith song, along with bass, drums, and guitar. I've only begun to scratch the surface, but it seems to travel in a space between the guitar and bass where no man (or at least no Bill, tgo) has gone before. I could definitely see the possibilities of instruments that hang out at this sonic altitude (as I expect a piccolo bass would). Especially in a band that plays fairly clean so you can distinguish the individual instruments, like jazz, or Grateful Dead style music. Bill, tgo | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thanks Bill, thats what I needed to know and by the way I have the uncut album mint version Vinyl of Blind Faith with the Nude girl and the airplane on the cover and I love that tune Sea of Joy, Winwood's vocal was awesome on the track! and I love the opening riff. good luck with it and all the best to you, hope to see you in Cali.. John Oh yeah by the way I got to jam with Ginger Baker once totally un planned I was in thoughbred music store in Tampa Florida and Ginger was there doing a drum clinic introducing his new line of Ludwig wood drum set so I was actually in this room where they had a stage setup in the store and he jumped up to play and I stopped what I was doing and listened a moment then I couldn't resist playing the opening lines to sunshine of your love with the Harmonies and he just busted out the drum parts it was awesome spontaneous fun for about 5 minutes, I was trying out an old 63 SG I believe, I thought about this because I love Ginger's pitter patter riffs at the beginning guitar part of Sea of Joy peace John out (Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009) | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 360 Registered: 2-2005 |
Um, not to plug my own shit, but I think this is relevant to the discussion. www.hb3.com/theveldt All the tracks on the new cd are available (for free. just click to play). Piccolo bass is used as the lead and rhythm instrument on everything. The only place there's a six-string guitar is on tracks one and twelve. So, for instance, track two: the rhythm's played on piccolo, the "guitar" melody and lead is played on piccolo. We've been gigging. H (Message edited by hb3 on June 03, 2009) | ||
| sonicus
Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi john , I vaguely remember the 9 bass Ron Carter show (early 90's ?)but I do remember that there were arco players and pizzicato players.I also remember that the parts were in fact distinguishable. I was listening to identify the various counterpoint parts. it was indeed a treat for the ears mind and soul ! It really was a WOW thing ! I will try to find the program and report back . | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 72 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thanks Wolf, counterpoint is a great thing in the hands of good players, nothing pertaining to classical but back in the day I use to listen to a group called Gentle Giant for a rockish flare they were the masters of counterpoint, I am not sure if you ever heard of them they were popular amongst musicians but not so popular in the charted world...songs like cogs and cogs, playing the game, etcc. they all played guitar violin, cello, keyboard played xylophone, all drums all vocals. sort of a poly fusion group with the nucleus always around counterpoint machined type grooves to create one feel | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 363 Registered: 2-2005 |
My friend owns this company.... www.gentlegiantltd.com | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1160 Registered: 6-2002 |
The band Gentle Giant did their 35th Anniversary releases a couple of years ago, and I immediately snapped up 3 CDs "Playing The Fool - Live", "Octopus", and "Three Friends" and the DVD release of their video performances from the 70s. I believe Kerry Minear (keyboards, cello, vibse) was the principal composer, but Derek (lead vocals, saxes, some bass) and Ray Schulman (bass, trumpet, violin and guitar), Gary Green (guitar) and John Weathers (drums and vibes) could truly sound like an orchestra all by themselves. At one point in their shows they ALL play descant recorders, at another they ALL play drums. I'm glad I never has to roadie for them, enough delicate gear and miscellaneous percussion to to choke three camels  . I love the compositional complexity, but then I also love good mountain music too. I must be a Virgo (or a 21st Century Schitzoid Man). Mike | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2009 |
Agreed mike they were the bomb!..I followed their career since day one with Octopus, Derek Shulman later went on to become the president of Atlantic records and was the person responsible for discovering John Bon Jovi in a New Jersey night club. I was a big fan of the white cello and Knots, Kerry Minear was my favorite Keyboardist of that era next to Keith Emerson, Glass house , Power & the Glory, & Octopus were a few of my favorites, but as far as their machine grooves & not to mention their vocal ranges go, Cogs & Cogs off the Power & Glory album and Playing the Game were cool to play and yet they could break it down into a simple minstrel groove, really wild writing !....John Gosh Mike after talking about Gentle Giant I had to go and have a listen again and I popped in free hand...my conclusion is that it is very hard to have a favorite Gentle Giant song it's more about what mood you are in and what groove you feel like hearing, they about did it all, from Rock, Prog Rock, Orchestral and Minstrel Sweet stuff and the Bass line's were very challenging...Amen Brother (Message edited by john judge on June 03, 2009) | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1161 Registered: 6-2002 |
I pulled out "Playing the Fool - Live" to verify the line-up, and it's going to work with me today. (along with my MP3s from last Saturday) back on topic - I hope you can work out the details for the Raven Resonator, and get him/her built. In Native American mythology, isn't the Raven also known as the Trickster? Mike | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 364 Registered: 2-2005 |
I think I read somewhere that the guy in Miles Davis' 70s band had a piccolo bass w/ a whammy bar...what was his name? The guy who played on "On The Corner," et al.... | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 74 Registered: 4-2009 |
sorry double post (Message edited by john judge on June 04, 2009) | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2009 |
Also there was hear say years ago that Stanley had one mounted on a Piccolo but I never seen it or was able to confirm it (Message edited by john judge on June 04, 2009) | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 366 Registered: 2-2005 |
Tony Williams: drums, right? Am I thinking of Michael Henderson? | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1702 Registered: 10-2003 |
Let Me Play For You (I think that's the title) has a pic of Stanley's piccolo with Bigsby on the foldout.. John | ||
| jorge_s
Intermediate Member Username: jorge_s Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2002 |
The guy with Miles with the whammy bar was Flea. (Not the Flea with the Chilli Peppers) | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 368 Registered: 2-2005 |
There was another Flea? | ||
| chrisalembic
Junior Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2009 |
you mean Foley? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJu75FXXlPY&feature=related (Message edited by chrisalembic on June 04, 2009) | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 76 Registered: 4-2009 |
 Here's one Guy that had one...Stanley! | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 327 Registered: 1-2008 |
I like it Hugh!!! I'd never heard of "Counterpoint" before, but I think it's something I sometimes do with my stuff. I too apologize for plugging MY own shit, but listen to the bass parts on "Majic Wand" at: http://www.ilike.com/artist/Mike+B+Flowers If you focus on what's coming out of the Left and Right side it's easier to tell that there are actually 3 bass lines going on. Is that "Counterpoint"? | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 369 Registered: 2-2005 |
Counterpoint is, like, Bach. | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 370 Registered: 2-2005 |
In music, counterpoint is the relationship between two or more voices that are independent in contour and rhythm and are harmonically interdependent. It has been most commonly identified in Western music, developing strongly during the Renaissance and in much of the common practice period, especially in Baroque music. The term originates from the Latin punctus contra punctum ("point against point"). -- Wiki wiki wiki | ||
| sonicus
Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2009 |
As taught by my music theory teacher from a harmonic aspect there are 3 basic types of Counterpoint ; Parallel Motion , Contrary Motion and Oblique Motion. This is only basic, it gets heavier. There could be perhaps other schools of explanation but that is what I was taught for a basic understanding. Listen to the works written by JOHANN SEBASTIAN BACH for a good example of what counterpoint is all about. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3903 Registered: 7-2004 |
And in the good ol' Grateful Dead. Lesh is more! Bill, tgo | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 77 Registered: 4-2009 |
WOLF and HUGH are right on the money , Bach was the Master of Counterpoint, 2 part invention and Fugue's, so playing 3 different Bass line's is not counterpoint, there has to be a relationship between them. I love this place we started out talking about my Bass design and go to Gentle Giant , Bach and now Counterpoint..Totally awesome! (Message edited by john judge on June 04, 2009) | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 78 Registered: 4-2009 |
Just in case anyone is interested in music theory, a great source and break down of books to read is Walter Piston's series of book's they break down into groups such as 1 book is for harmony, 1 for orchestration, counterpoint etc.. great reading if you are wanting to learn theory or more on any particular's and application. | ||
| sonicus
Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes John , I agree this thread has taken on life just like a good jam ! And the good l' Grateful Dead have incorporated not JUST counterpoint but ALSO the use of Poly-Rythms! in their improvisational technique. | ||
| sonicus
Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes John , I agree this thread has taken on life just like a good jam ! And the good ol' Grateful Dead have incorporated not JUST counterpoint but ALSO the use of Poly-Rythms! in their improvisational technique. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 79 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yes the Dead do indeed apply Poly Rythm and counterpoint as did the group Gentle Giant Poly and Tri- modality . Nothing like a good talk on music theory to unleash the beast of discussion, A dash of treble Clef , a dash of Bass Clef and 10 more sets of ledger lines and your on your way to Orchestrating yourself a Score. Create, Create,Create thats what it's all about, but without good comprehension it's hard for a person to unleash their full musical potential and that is why I believe in theory. I may not completely use all of it all the time but I do set some guide lines while I play and compose. If you never tried it than you might want to consider diving into some of it, you will be amazed of how you'll start to hear things and notice things in music like never before and how much better of a writer you will be. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2470 Registered: 2-2006 |
I couldn't agree more John. Early on in my playing I relied totally on my ear and paid no attention to the theory behind music. Didn't care to read, learn my modes (even know what the heck a mode was for that matter), pay any attention to harmony and chords..... But the last 15 years or so I really "grew up" as a musician. The larger your vocabulary the better equipped you are to "tell your story". Back in the 60's and 70's a bassist could get by without knowing a lot about music theory, but there are so many great bassist out there today that you really need to have an “A” game to stay busy working. Being able to play fast and fancy chops is OK but knowing WHAT to play will get you much more work. Now back to the topic, I was really impressed with the resonator that you showed me in Chicago. I'd love to see how it sounds in a fretless bass. It might add more of an acoustic double bass sound to it. Be cool to hear. OO | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1162 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bela Fleck & The Flecktones "The Hidden Land" CD starts with a JS Bach composition: "Fugue from Prelude & Fugue No. 20 in A Minor, BVW 889" (I don't know what that last bit means ) The contrapuntal movement is obvious on this track. Mike | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 2238 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mike, it's actually BWV, not BVW - not a BMW/Volkswagen hybrid by a lkong shot. It's short for Bach Werke Verzeichnis - Index on Bach's Works. Mozart has KV for Köchels Verzeichnis - Köchel's Index, Schubert has D for Deutsch. | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2009 |
THANKS OLIE, I have actually given thought about making the top plate thicker so it would have a semi-hollow body effect, so the resonation cavity would be quite large for air and sound to move underneath it, so it would be like 2 Alembic pick ups and the hum canceler then the resonator circuit over that in a slightly raised top maybe having a small arch to it. Alembic tops are 1/4 inch maybe make it 1/2" or just cavity out the whole body under the top plate is what I am thinking. But yes I did think about it being fretless, but set up with a arched bridge like a mini upright feel with a floating top fingerboard like an upright. P.s. if you can hear us...the 3-B's need to take a bow and you too Mozart! your works carry on through centuries of time! | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 84 Registered: 4-2009 |
Well getting ready to let this thread die out here, anyone with any late minute comments about the Bass design feel free to do so, glad to hear your input thanks again everyone, John | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 88 Registered: 4-2009 |
Hello everyone just got in, Just wanted to say to those who were interested in hearing the raven sound, I put together a little funky groove clip that you can get an Idea from, I mixed the Bass extra hot against the other instruments so you could hear it and the next clip I do will show exactly the difference in breaking down the sound. The Bass in this recording is Flat with no EQ. Anyway if you want to hear it email me by clicking on my name and put in subject block Raven request and I will MP3 the clip to you. Thanks ..John Judge | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey john i got your email .........i like that clip!  | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 872 Registered: 7-2003 |
John,Ray, yep me too. John had done me an extra mix with the bass a bit more upfront. I really like that sound......... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3922 Registered: 7-2004 |
John: I don't know much about "resonators" other than Dobros and National guitars, but the clip sure sounds good and funky! The bass is very distinct, just the way I like it. Bill, tgo | ||
| pauldo
Intermediate Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 164 Registered: 6-2006 |
Agreed! Fun and Funky. John Judge - was that bass part played fingerstyle? | ||
| john_judge
Member Username: john_judge Post Number: 89 Registered: 4-2009 |
Yes all fingers but I do some techniques with my thumb and first finger to give me a sort of picked Harmonic technique and I do taps on the finger board and thumb nail plucking while holding the index finger against the string for Harmonics, just have to show it to you paul, it's a weird style of playing from over the pickup's to anywhere from the middle of the neck and down with tap on's..it just gives me a variety of stuff for technique that way! |
