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george_wright
Intermediate Member
Username: george_wright

Post Number: 139
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 9:53 am:   Edit Post

Today's Wall Street Journal has an article(new window) on how C.F. Martin Co. is keeping production rolling during the economic downturn.

Santa Cruz Guitar company and Taylor are also mentioned, but nothing about Alembic.
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 448
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 10:01 am:   Edit Post

Thank you for sharing that.
southpaw
Advanced Member
Username: southpaw

Post Number: 228
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post

Thanks George, good reading...
artswork99
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 722
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post

Yes, good reading... 575 employees and 52,000 guitars out of the Nazarath plant each year. Hard to listen to them say that it is still largely run as a handcrafted process when they mention robots doing functions.
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 601
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 4:49 pm:   Edit Post

" Hard to listen to them say that it is still largely run as a handcrafted process when they mention robots doing functions."

I live about 40 minutes from the Martin factory, and recently went on a tour there. I meant to post about it earlier, and wish I had since I have forgotten many of the details.

From what I saw, much if it IS still a handcrafted process, especially for the more expensive items in their catalog. The robots do alot of the more repetitive functions it appears, such as making soundhole cutouts, some models (not sure if it is all, get put on a "buffing robot"), but much of the actual guitar building is still done by people who appear to have a significant amount of skill.

Here are some pics.

http://gallery.me.com/glocke12/100123/DSC_1432

http://gallery.me.com/glocke12/100123/DSC_1432
jerryme
Intermediate Member
Username: jerryme

Post Number: 107
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 5:15 pm:   Edit Post

For the money, brand new Martin's are a complete ripoff.

Colin
artswork99
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 728
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, July 06, 2009 - 7:08 pm:   Edit Post

It's good to get a first hand report on the Nazareth, PA plant. I wonder if the Mexican plant operates the same way.
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 602
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 4:32 am:   Edit Post

"For the money, brand new Martin's are a complete ripoff."

I don't want to start a heated debate about guitar pricing, but seriously, is there ANYTHING that when bought new is not grossly overpriced and a "rip off"?

What about a brand new "insert name of manfacturer here", is that brand new custom guitar or bass really worth $10,000.00-$12,000.00 ??? I have a friend that paid $10,000.00 for a guitar made by a guy who should be well known in the jam band community (at least the phish community), and I look at it and wonder what makes it a $10,000.00 guitar, especially since it had to be sent back to the builder for a neck replacement because improperly cured wood was used in the neck.

I'm not picking on any single company here, Im just pointing out that pretty much everything when bought new is grossly overpriced. Thats the beauty of capitalism, if something is too expensive, than that is reflected in that companies sales.

That said, Id still have no problem ordering up a brand spanking new series II bass if I had an extra 12k laying around.

(Message edited by glocke on July 07, 2009)

(Message edited by glocke on July 07, 2009)
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 3986
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 7:16 am:   Edit Post

"For the money, brand new Martin's are a complete ripoff."


My '53 D-28 cost more than a new one and it was beat up when I got it. A new D-28 is around $2300. A comparable Taylor is in the same ballpark. You can certainly find more expensive acoustics. Where can you find a guitar of comparable quality and tone for less?

Bill, tgo
artswork99
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 729
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 8:00 am:   Edit Post

"For the money, brand new Martin's are a complete ripoff."

I agree Gregory... "insert name of manufacturer here".

Bill makes a good point that there are vintage Martins that sell for very high dollars.

(Message edited by artswork99 on July 07, 2009)
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 2602
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 8:15 am:   Edit Post

Try pricing the the WWII and pre WWII Martins, WOW!

OO
artswork99
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 730
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 8:27 am:   Edit Post

Like any collectable... it's all in the eye of the beholder. One thing I think we all can agree upon... Alembics rock!
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 2603
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 8:47 am:   Edit Post

Both my old Martins, mid 66 D35 and early 52 D18 are priceless to me.

Of course they were my grandmothers.

OO
jerryme
Intermediate Member
Username: jerryme

Post Number: 109
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2009 - 7:48 pm:   Edit Post

www.worlandguitars.com
Brian Worland makes super nice guitars that in my mind and to my ears sound much better than brand new Martins.
Vintage Martins are a completely differnt ballgame than new ones. Also, Martin charges really high prices for guitars made from Indian Rosewood, when for the same money you can get not so generic tonewood. Martin also sells guitars with laminate back and sides for almost a thousand dollars (seems slightly overpriced to me).
My Henderson cost me $1500, and new it sounded like a decades old guitar. 12 years later I would put it against any 25-35 year old guitar in the world and they just don't sound (to me) to be anything near as good. Last year I was offered a 1963 Brazilian D-28 and I turned it down.
Of course we are talking about something that is highly subjective. Alembics to me (and most of you) are worth every penny (and I don't even own one!) simply because they are better in every sense of the word than what is available at any price. This does not hold up in my opinion in terms of the Martin guitar company.
Colin
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 603
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 3:20 am:   Edit Post

Looks like Brian Worland makes some nice guitars. A few years back I was in a band with someone who played a Charles Fox acoustic, to this day that is the best sounding acoustic I have ever heard.

I am rather surprised to see the hating on Martins though. They are a good company who make a fine product, take care of their employees, and offer excellent customer care. I took my D41 with me when I went on the tour, and was given a free set up that included a new set of strings, and a new bridge.

After looking at the Worland prices, I went to check the price I paid for my D41, and it was comparable to the price of a Worland Jumbo, unless the actual price of a Worland is less than advertised on his website, the price difference is only a few hundred dollars.

"Alembics to me (and most of you) are worth every penny (and I don't even own one!) simply because they are better in every sense of the word than what is available at any price. "

Yep. I don't think any other company offers what Alembic has to offer.
white_cloud
Senior Member
Username: white_cloud

Post Number: 717
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 6:19 am:   Edit Post

I always liked the sound of Martin guitars in general - nice quality!

I think that there are very, very few builders actually building any sort of guitar or bass completely by hand. For one example it could be argued that CNC router machines are "robots" but realistically no company producing even relatively small numbers of high quality instruments can do without them - including Alembic. It seems a shame in a way to me that Martin uses "robots" as it has been put here, but then again 52000 instruments a year is a fairly huge production.

On the plus side CNC technology remains unsurpassed at producing consistancy ....and to the smallest degree.

John.
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 847
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 7:19 am:   Edit Post

You know.it's strange??
My brother has a Fender F 65 from the early 70's, which he was given for free when he traded a 1957 Junior for a Standard (yeah,I know I know!)
He took it in to his local shop the other week,..and it blew away most of the other acoustics in the shop!!
The only guitar that apparently was better, was a Martin "Rory Gallagher" model.......at 3500!!
Me....personally..if I played acoustic guitar (which I don't... most people say I don't even play bass!)
I'd go for an older Guild D 55.....to ME...they sound just so good...horses for courses!

George

PS..if in doubt.....listen to "Eric Mongrain" on Youtube............amazing!!!

(Message edited by georgie_boy on July 08, 2009)
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 3988
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 7:59 am:   Edit Post

Colin:

As you know, Wayne Henderson's prices have absolutely nothing to do with the high quality of his instruments. He is one-of-a-kind and you are incredibly lucky to have one of his guitars at any price.

As for Indian Rosewood, it is a fine tonewood. My early 90's Taylor 810 (I.R.) sounds wonderful. A lot of the "Brazilian" you see these days is stump wood. It's very pretty and has lots of swirly grain, like cocobolo, but on the really good Brazilian the grain was tight and straight. That's very hard to find and, if found, VERY expensive ($2500-3000 just for the wood to make the back and sides is typical).

Bill, tgo
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 614
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 10:04 am:   Edit Post

Don't assume that all cnc produced products are of the same quality. My father is a machinist, and a damn good one. I can attest that there is just as much skill and art involved when a talented machinist uses these tools as with any other talented craftsman. The only thing that has changed are the tools at hand. The points where it really matters still rely on the abilities of the person operating the machine. Which is not to say that such an operation is immune to sloppiness. It just depends on the character of the operator. I would have to think that with fine work like inlay, that a CNC would be able to surpass the abilities of a human in accuracy. Someone would still have to create the design, and properly convey it mathematically.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8341
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 2:04 pm:   Edit Post

I feel like I've been practicing all day; the rig, surprisingly, actually sounds good today, and I seem to be making a little progress in my playing. So I shut it down and log on to the club and see George's suggestion to check out Eric Mongrain. The first thing I find is Air Tap. Wow! I guess as soon as my fingers have had time to recover I need to start practicing again.
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 849
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 3:09 am:   Edit Post

The version I liked, was this one on Canadian TV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYp2BLJNny8
Still can't post these links properly!!

Anyway, this is Eric with the Guild D55-great sound!!
George
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 851
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 4:10 am:   Edit Post

I've tried to post this as a shorter link, but end up with a mess!
Could someone talk me through how I should post the above link to just read...ERIC MONGRAIN.
This is driving me mad!!!

(Message edited by georgie_boy on July 09, 2009)
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 2264
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 4:17 am:   Edit Post

\newurl { http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYp2BLJNny8 , ERIC MONGRAIN }

-- just leave out the extra blanks.
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 2265
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 4:18 am:   Edit Post

Now if someone could show me the code to show pictures that I know are already uploaded ...
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 515
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 4:24 am:   Edit Post

Georgie -
1) type a backslash (\)
2) type the word "link"
3) type an open bracket ({)
4) insert the URL
5) type a comma (,)
6) add the wording you want to appear (e.i. Eric Mongrain)
7) type a close bracket (})

No spaces except within the desired text (for instance, in your case, the only space would be between "Eric" and "Mongrain". And yes, he's a freakin' monster!).
It took me forever to get the hang of it, too.

Peter

(Message edited by cozmik_cowboy on July 09, 2009)
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 852
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:13 am:   Edit Post

Thanks Peter!! and Adriaan!!
Seems that where I've been going wrong.....is, I inserted the link....instead of typing it!!
I'm going to try this!!!


Thanks guys!

George
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 853
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:16 am:   Edit Post

This is a test of my stupidity!
I'm about to try and post the link with Eric Mongrain
Please be patient with me
George

ERIC MONGRAIN
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 854
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:24 am:   Edit Post

Yahooooooooooo!!!
Success!
Thanks guys!

REALLY........i appreciate this so much..........as will other users of this forum.
It now seems so simple..........like me.

George
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 855
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:27 am:   Edit Post

So..........if I send an E Mail to someone with a link...
Do I just do the same stuff??

Not as confused as before!?
G
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 2607
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:30 am:   Edit Post

That all depends on what program you use to get your email George.

OO
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 856
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:37 am:   Edit Post

Hi Olin!!
I use Outlook Express 6. I think?
I'm going to try something else......just to make sure I've got this!!.........I'm so pleased!

G
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 857
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:41 am:   Edit Post



(Message edited by georgie_boy on July 09, 2009)
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 2608
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:44 am:   Edit Post

Outlook Express you should be able to just hightlight the words you wan to add the hyperlink to then right click on the highlight and there will be a insert hyperlink option.
Select it and you can either type in the hyperlink or cpy and paste it. It may even insert it automatically when you open the web page.

OO
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 858
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:54 am:   Edit Post

I'm still learning Man!!
None of all that foreign stuff!!

G
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 859
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 5:59 am:   Edit Post

Andy McKee

What is that guitar??
Sounds just great to me!!

Still practicing with my new found skills!!

(Message edited by georgie_boy on July 09, 2009)
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 2609
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 6:01 am:   Edit Post

Email Sent George!
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8344
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 7:42 am:   Edit Post

Adriaan; as far as I am aware, there's no way to do it.
chalkie
Junior
Username: chalkie

Post Number: 22
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post

I know this is going off-topic a bit, but generically, links look like this:

<a href="#url#">#text#</a>

where #url# is the web address you want to link to, and #text# is the text you want to make clickable

so your link above *actually* looks like this:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4">Andy McKee</a>

As an eye-opener, try inspecting the page-source for THIS web page - if you use Internet Explorer or similar, right-click on the page, anywhere you like, and select "view source". Do a search for "Andy McKee" (without the quotes), and you'll see how your own link actually looks like the one I've mentioned here.

The stuff above about using \link is specific to the software used for this Alembic forum, and doesn't hold true for http generally.
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 860
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post

Charlie............I think I'm more confused now!
But.I'll keep trying.
Thanks for everyone's help.
G

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