| Author | Message | ||
| chuckc
Member Username: chuckc Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2004 |
So let me preface this whole thing with I don’t own an Alembic, I’ve played several models here and there but I have admired and been inspired by the people who have, be that the pros or the regular folks like myself in the club. Probably will never have one, as they are a bit out of my price range but if I ever got rich I would love to have one. So in the meantime I trudge along playing a couple of Fender Jazz basses, one fretted, one fretless with my weekend “classic rock” band. As I was reading the posts regarding the signature models and the various discussion points that were brought up, it hit me as odd that there were such a significant number of “former” Alembic players. Phil Leah and Jack Cassidy, who I regard as some of the finest players ever, now play something else. Phil is playing a Ritter I think, Jack plays a Gibson/Epiphone of his own specifications. John Entwistle moved from an Alembic to a Status. Stanley plays a number of other basses. Mark King seems to have had a number of different basses before he settled in on Status, John Paul Jones now has his Manson JPJ model. Andy West, Greg Lake and so on. Since I can’t comment first hand on the ”why’s” someone may have decided to move to something else from an Alembic, I was wondering if anyone out there has any opinions or discussion points??? Some of the questions that came to my mind were: Is there significant new technology that some of the other luthiers are using that Alembic doesn’t? Is it a “pay for play” scenario? Is it a price/performance issue? Is the highly priced Alembic models such that most musicians don’t want to take them out on the road?? I’m not attempting to try and bash anyone’s personal choice to select what they want to play but this is more for my own edification than anything. | ||
| artswork99
Moderator Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1227 Registered: 7-2007 |
Chuck, I found my first Alembic just before my 50th birthday knowing that after years of ownership of a Hyak that I wanted to play an Alembic too. There are some incredible deals to be found if you are persistent in your search and new is not a possibility... the last good deal that I found was an Elan in excellent condition for under $1000 (not long ago). In my opinion I believe that artists are enticed to different brands for different reasons. Possibly a special deal being offered to them (which we know they can be numerous) or a friend/friend of a friend, etc... of course, their prerogative. Most artists are likely to keep their Alembic in the collection but have discovered many different tools for their toolbox. One respectable reason that Alembic, in my opinion, does not participate in endorsement deals is that it would cause an increase in cost to those that are not able to get these deals. I commend them for this! Endorsements can be influential and affect the choices that some artists make for their toolkit. I still believe that the Alembic technology and quality are right up there at the top. Newer electronics mainly seem to be in the amps and pedals where the tonality from an Alembic is nothing short of great. The neck, feel and quality of a bass is what I've always enjoyed the most. I don't think there is a definitive answer to this and I'm sure it will be a good topic for discussion. I've enjoyed my bass to the extreme and have no plans to stop using mine! Cheers, Art (Message edited by artswork99 on July 27, 2010) | ||
| 88persuader
Senior Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 402 Registered: 5-2004 |
I can't speak for pro STAR players but I can speak for myself. I use to own 3 Alembic basses, a Persuader, an Epic and a SC Standard. I think the Persuader and Sc Standard were true works of art. I feel the the Epic doesn't even come close to living up to the Alembic name or the price they ask for it. Just my personal opinion) That said I feel Alembics in general are status basses and you pay a lot for that status. I sold all my Alembics because I couldn't personally justify the money i had tied up in these works of art and didn't feel comfortable bringing 20K worth of basses to gig for $100 at the local bars. So I play other brands. If you can justify the expense in general you won't find a better bass than an Alembic but "I" couldn't justify having all the money tied up in basses I didn't want to use on gigs. | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2004 |
Aside from Jimmy J, I don't know of too many professional bassists these days who can tote a Series Alembic without a full blown custom rig from gig to gig..... Mind you, many of the "former" players mentioned above have entered the era of "guerilla touring" where backline rentals from venue to venue are more common than loading up the semi with gear.... I don't know of any rental companies that integrate DS-5R's into their Hartke / Eden rigs.... Seriously, these days even traveling with a preamp rack seems to be a burden that most bassists would just as soon ditch... It's the path of least resistance.... | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 616 Registered: 1-2008 |
The music business has REALLY changed since web-based distribution (whether it be legal or illegal) began. As such, those endorsement deals are probably more out of necessity than vanity. An Alembic is a boutique instrument... if you are fortunate enough to own one you have to decide how you are comfortable using it. I'm sure (name your favorite race-car driver) has lots of nice exotic cars at home, but he doesn't use them at work. | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 745 Registered: 9-2002 |
Speaking for myself also, I havent had too much of an issue bringing any of my Alembics out to bar gigs. I bought them because I like the features and tonal aspects of Alembic instruments, and have not really found a non-Alembic instrument that really inspires me (although I am looking).. I think in terms of pros (guys like Phil, John, etc), I think part of what causes them to switch is that they may get tired of something, or want to experiment so they switch around rigs and/or basses. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1295 Registered: 11-2004 |
My MK goes to every gig and has done for the past 12 years. I bought one because I have wanted one ever since I saw Stan Clarke using one in the early 70's. It does everything I want it to do tone wise and has the slimmest fastest low action neck to which many other bass players have commented on, the only drawback is it's weight..it is a heavy beast!! | ||
| bassilisk
Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 70 Registered: 4-2009 |
I'm lucky enough to own 3 Alembics (MK, Rogue Distillate) and I like them very much for what they are - beautifully crafted tools for me to enjoy. But, as much as I like them, I also like all the other basses I have for what they are. The Alembics aren't there to replace them but to add more choices to the buffet. I have no qualms about bringing an Alembic or any of my other instruments to a gig - I enjoy them all and they all get a turn. For some having an Alembic is the epitome of the craft and it provides all they want and need. That's a wonderful thing. Me, I'm too much of a bass dog to settle for any single brand. There are just too many other excellent instruments to diddle - variety is the spice of life and bass monogamy is not in my blood. All those excellent players have the option to choose whatever they feel allows them to best express themselves at the moment. It's not about Alembics being better or worse than (blank) - it's just about doing it differently. | ||
| bassilisk
Member Username: bassilisk Post Number: 71 Registered: 4-2009 |
I am lucky enough to have 3 Alembics that I truly enjoy very much (custom Rogue, MK and a Distillate) - exceptionally crafted tools for me to use (and pretty easy on the the eyes to boot!). As much as I like them, I've got a pretty vried selection of other basses that I also enjoy very much. The Alembics aren't there to replace them but to add more selection to the buffet. Each instrument, even the similar ones, has aspects that are not duplicated in the others. I am fortunate to have the opportunity to make a selection for each gig and have no qualms bringing any of them out, whether an Alembic or a vintage Fender or a Steinberger XL2 for that matter. Some people find their "Lucille" in one instrument and that's a wonderful thing. Me, I'm too much of a bass dog - there are too many excellent instruments to enjoy and bass monogamy is not in me. Variety is the spice of life after all! All those excellent artists have the option to play anything that suits them and use whatever lets them speak best at the time. It's not about something being better than Alembic - it's a new flavor, a new feel or shape...just something different. There's always another bass on the horizon to sample and why not? It doesn't make the others any less, it's just an alternate method to achieving your voice. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1454 Registered: 9-2002 |
The truth is that a lot of famous players are very fickle, instrument-wise. Nobody thinks anything about an endorsing guitarist who used 37 different axes on his last record, plays ten or twelve in concert, but we somehow expect Bassist X to use the same thing from now on. Ain't gonna happen. Occasionally you do find a Jimmy J or a BB King who plays the same axe from now on, but it's rare. I honestly think sometimes people want a break away from these things, it's just easier to go back to something that's a little more forgiving or not quite as revealing a tone as an Alembic; you miss a lot on a PBass with funky strings, and that's OK. I play mine (a Spoiler Five and an Elan Five) anywhere and everywhere. Strangely enough, the uninformed usually think they're one more new import axe, 'one of them Olympics'. I use a Metro/extension cabinet rig, and I just play. There is no other better technology out there. The Series pickup system is simply in a class by itself. The non-series pickups ( I have FatBoys and Activators in mine ) are robust and painfully honest sounding. And the construction methods (plug in connections, adjustable nut, double truss rods, etc.) require them rarely to be sent back to Cali, they're easy to maintain and/or fix. The shapes are what they are, some are easier to live with than others. There is no better construction. They are not cheap new, but like anything else, you can find nice used ones and save a bundle: There's always a certain percentage of guys that get rid of them to get the next axe. And, relatively speaking, they're not that expensive these days: Take a walk through Gibson's Custom Shop offerings and gag at those prices ! And the simple fact is, these aren't for everybody. Most of us gravitated here, drawn by the mystique, found out what truly special axes these are, built and supported by the nicest people in the world who articulated a higher spec vision that is being copied around the world. These are like owning a Leica or a Selmer Paris horn or a German Steinway. Other folks are happy with a point and shoot and a Casio keyboard, which is fine. These things made me a better player as I could just hear things on them I can't hear anywhere else. I occasionally play around with other things, but I never stray too far from home . . . J o e y | ||
| 88persuader
Senior Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 403 Registered: 5-2004 |
All good points but one hasn't really been mentioned. The fact that not everyone who uses Alembics worship them like many members on this site. For many it's just another nice bass among many nice basses. It's just a tool of the player. Heck, Jeff Berlin, one of the best player around uses Dean! It's just a tool. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 807 Registered: 1-2005 |
I think it's interesting, another one of my favorite brands, Rickenbacker, was also used by some world-class bassists on early classic albums - think Geddy Lee of Rush, Paul McCartney, Roger Glover of Deep Purple - but the only ones that still use Rics that I can think of are Chris Squire of Yes and Lemmy of Motorhead. I can't say why - Rickenbackers are kind of clunky but I love mine - for some things it's the best! I like to rotate and play my different instruments, but for a touring musician it may be a different matter entirely. John Entwistle retired one of his Alembics after Live Aid because it wouldn't work right, Geddy had his Rickenbacker modified, probably because the stock bridge is a nightmare to adjust. We all grow and change, and I think the choices of the masters such as Phil Lesh, Jack Casady, etc., must be respected, even if we ourselves wish it could be otherwise. A lot of it is nostalgia for those of us on the sidelines, but for the actual musician up on stage and in the studio it's a whole 'nother matter and their own choice... | ||
| charles_holmes
Member Username: charles_holmes Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hey Joey, That was very excellently stated! For me, I must agree that when it comes to the Alembic, there is no better technology or craftmanship hands down! I am the 2nd owner/caretaker of the Distillate series I bass, and I consider that the 5g's paid for my used Distillate was well worth it. I played a gig last Saturday with my rock band "Route 15" and all the guitar player could say was WOW!The tones of my Alembic just engulfed the entire room and I too have never really heard it sound so gigantic. I too was drawn to the Alembic because of Stanley Clarke (of my home town, had to get that in there) any way, when I heard that bass at the Tower theater in 1980-something, I knew that I had to have one. To hear and feel the response is something that one must personally experience in order to really understand what playing an Alembic is really about. I own a few other basses too, but in all honesty I do not use them.The only other two basses that I use are my Sinoman double bass for my jazz gigs and my Wittman custom 5 string that I had turned into a stereo bass complete with the 5 pin jack to be able to switch between the Distillate and Wittman, but I really want a 5 string series because when I switch to my current 5 string, there is such a drop off sonically speaking and the the maker of my 5 string said that he can't make it an 18 volt bass like the Alembic. Has the Alembic made me a better bassist? I do not know, but I do know that the piano player in my jazz group Bop Top said that that Alembic is the best sounding bass that he has ever heard and that he can hear every single note that I pluck! I'm greatful for the genius and vision of Ron Wickersham and the entire Alembic family! Chalie Holmes | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 617 Registered: 1-2008 |
YEA LEMMY!!! http://youtu.be/9e5cqe_JE0Q http://youtu.be/cYJUywl7CFw | ||
| 88persuader
Senior Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 404 Registered: 5-2004 |
Not to start any backlash but last time I heard Stanley was a few years ago with an RTF reunion in Boston and his Alembic sounded like crap. Every time he played you could hear the strings click against the frets. I don't know if it was how the bass was set up or if the amp/sound man had too much treble on his tone but ... well it was a little bit of a let down. I saw RTF in it's heyday when Stanley was a kid and his tone was amazing. I'm assuming or hoping this was a case of the sound guy killing him. | ||
| toma_hawk01
Intermediate Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 102 Registered: 9-2009 |
Chuck, from a Alembic sound check perspective, I heard Alembics played by the following bassist during the 70's and 80's: Marvin Isley - (Isley Brothers - Funk), Louis Johnson - (Brothers Johnson-Funk), Rodney 'Skeets' Curtis - (Parliament Funkidelics-Funk), John Entwistle - (The Who - Rock&Roll), BrownMark - (Prince and the Revolution - Funk), Jimmy Johnson - (Allan Holdsworth - Fusion), Reggie Hickman - (Brick - Funk), Lequeint "Duke" Jobe - (Rose Royce - Funk), Stanley Clarke - (Return to Forever - Fusion), Mark Adams - (Slave Band - Funk), Mark King - (Level 42 - Pop), Robert Earl "Kool" Bell - (Kool and the Gang - Funk) and Jermaine Jackson - (The Jacksons - Pop) From the 70's through the 90's, my ears grew up on artist playing Alembics. The 70's, was the decade electric basses were put to work "over-time", "double time", "swing-shifts", "graveyards", "weekends" and "holidays" like no other time in history. I can honestly say, when I played Alembics for myself, it was as if someone poured an entire pail of ice cold water over my head while having a fever. It felt very good. I acquired my first Alembic at the age of 18. I didn't care if it was used, I just wanted that 70's sound of artist who laid their tracks before me. However, since I acquired my new bass, I make sounds I never heard. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 28, 2010) | ||
| chuckc
Member Username: chuckc Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2004 |
Interesting perspectives, all. I guess from my frame of reference I have seen a number of Alembic players live, but during those times, since I orginally started out at a very young age as a percussionist, I don' really think I spent too much time focusing my attention on the bass players, other than if the overall tone was either good or bad I do recall seeing Greg Lake, Andy West, John Entwistle, Jimmie Johnson, Phil Lesh, Tiran Porter play live during their Alembic days. John and Andy seem to stick most in my mind as having a really strong presence with their sound. Jimmie was probably one of the most tasteful and "in the pocket" players I ever heard. But I have to say in all the various live venues I have been in during my time I do recall the "best" and "worst sounding bassists. Chris Squire had one of the most amazing sounding basses I think I ever heard and I've seen him more than once. The "worst" has to go to Rick Laird of the Mahavishnu Orchestra. Great bassist but terrible sound. Not sure if it was his amplification, the venue (a former movie theater) or that Ampeg Plexiglass/Lucite bass. Obviously now I concentrate almost exclusivily on the bass players. Thanks to all for the feedback. | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 1103 Registered: 11-2004 |
I don't know for sure but I read recently about why John Entwistle switched away from Alembic. Supposedly, he was having trouble with the stability of the wooden necks with all the traveling and humidity changes he encountered. He liked his action really low and got tired of fighting the necks. He switched to graphite necks so he didn't have to deal with it anymore. Other members know a lot more about John than I do (Oliver comes to mind). They can probably give you more information. I saw RTF in June 09. The sound was outstanding for all of the instruments, including Stanley's Alembic and upright. On a side note, Stanley has been promoting another brand of bass recently. It was onstage last summer but it sat on its stand the whole night. I have two Epics (4 & 5). I run them through an Alembic SF-2 filter. I know they aren't the top of the line Alembics but they are great sounding basses. I am not rich (other than in name) but I got great second-hand deals on both and couldn't be happier with them. Rich | ||
| 88persuader
Senior Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 407 Registered: 5-2004 |
I think it was 09 when I saw RTF in Boston and Stanley's sound was all clicky. I swear when he played you could hear the string strike the frets! He and the band were brilliant but the clicking sound was bothersome to me. Almost like the bass wasn't set up properly or he lost his technique which of course he hadn't. Perhaps it WAS an issue with his sound coming to the house mix? I'll never know for sure! In regard to my feelings about Epics, no disrespect intended to those who disagree with me, we're all entitled to our opinions. I'm happy for you that you like yours and got them for a price you're happy with ... honestly! | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2065 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was at the RTF gig in in London in 2009 and I know the clicking sound you are talking about there but I didn't find it distracting as It was only audible when he was digging in or slap/popping the strings which was appropriate at those times. In fact it is something I've noticed in his sound on a video recording from back in the early 80's with the Clarke Duke Project that I recorded from the BBC. That clicking is quite evident when he is digging into the strings. So I presume it's a sound he uses for effect when the need arises. Next time I listen to the 2009 RTF DVD from the tour I will check out his tone there. In actual fact I recently saw him in London and didn't hear any of that click sound. I know if I play my alembic sc with the brige filter wide open I can get that type of effect in my playing which I quite like for some tracks. Jazzyvee | ||
| jos
Junior Username: jos Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2009 |
Hi Guys! Stanley has several basses and plays different instruments from time to time but he always returns to Alembic. Once you get used to that nice clear and punchy high end and the massive bottom plus all the stereo possibilities there is no other bass that can create those things…at least not the way Alembic do it. Technically I don’t think there are any other bass guitars on the market that are on the Alembic level (series one & two) that does not mean that the others are not good …there are many fine basses Fodera, Ken Smith old Fenders and so on. If you like a clear, big, full range sound with a lot of attack that can be used in stereo then Alembic is it. I do not always use Alembic even if I like it a lot; sometimes I use Fodera or something else depending on the gig. There are many reasons why bass players do not use Alembic. Mostly people do not know about them. People buy what is advertised or great players use or instruments you can try out in shops. Also if you try an Alembic Series One somewhere and no one shows you how it works you can get lost…its heavy and have a lot of knobs. I did recently a tour with the legendary bass player Paul Jackson (yes we both did play bass) and I was using the Alembic quite much. I also did use the Alembic for most of the recording session we did. Paul played his passive bass and sounded really good….he do not like Alembic mostly because its too heavy and too many knobs but that is OK too not everyone have the same taste or needs. For me Alembic is a great bass for finger style or any style to play…….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyOHwE-49Z4 All The Best, | ||
| slawie
Advanced Member Username: slawie Post Number: 244 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jan, I really enjoyed your clip. Nice playing nice groove and nice sound. I agree with your comment about stereo series' and the capability of being able to dial it in when a person may try it in a shop. I have had my series 1 for 22 years and I am still getting new sounds through some gear jiggery-pokerie. Not effects but amplification. slawie | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 786 Registered: 12-2004 |
jos good clip/chops man!....how does it feel to play with a Bass Legend?...& what kinda bass was paul playing a lakeland? | ||
| jos
Junior Username: jos Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2009 |
Thanks! Yes its just soooo great to play with a legend like Paul. Its like having a free lesson onstage…Paul, Louis Johnson, Stanley Clarke and Jaco Pastorius was my heroes in the -70`s and I still love to listen to them…today the list includes many more bass players (of course) like Jimmy Johnson, Armand Sabal-Lecco and the African guys…they are just killing!! Paul has a friend at ESP guitars that build the bass for him…it has 28 frets and is passive…. ……..and he still has his old Telecaster bass as well… All The Best, J-O-S | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9524 Registered: 5-2002 |
Very cool video Jan! | ||
| murray
New Username: murray Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2007 |
I had a Fender 1968 Jazz from new. It was great but had earthing probs. It was stolen and with the insurance money I bought an Alembic Orion 4. I had it Simms LED'd. It is fantastic and I play it in rough pubs and top venues. It is not a myth - the bass is superb. It holds its' set-up year after year. Best ever. Glynn -UK | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1304 Registered: 11-2004 |
Welcome Murray to the club, rough pubs eh, ever played up at Teesside..we have some right rough ones here. | ||
| murray
New Username: murray Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2007 |
To terryc - Best I can do is played bass for Morris dancing in Whitby (going to Folk Fest on 20 Aug)and singer of my now defunct function band is from Newcastle and so is son-in-law - I know... but it is still the North East. I originate from Dudley so what do I know! Was very, very tempted by the SC (Quilted Maple) in B'Ham Bass Centre at time but agree it was neck heavy so I went for Orion. As to heavy....have you ever held a banjo?.....many jokes spring to mind. Alembic works well with my Markbass combo and EBS rig. Am told it was a dream to record direct by a bloke who did a/the CD for us. Strange thing is that many non-bass playing people have still not heard of Alembic. They know of A..Fender and think you are saying A..Lembic. Hey-Ho. Glynn Murray | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1306 Registered: 11-2004 |
murray..MarkBass is really nice gear( a tad expensive) I recently bought a Ashdown 30O EVO, nice amp at a nice price. If you are up at Whitby on 20th give me an e mail and we could meet up(e mail is in profile, just click on my user name) It is not very often Alembic club members meet up. Heavy..my MK Signature weighs in at almost a stone! | ||
| murray
New Username: murray Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2007 |
Terry - hope to look you up. We are taking bikes up there as well as car so very mobile......Glynn | ||
| slawie
Advanced Member Username: slawie Post Number: 246 Registered: 8-2002 |
1 stone = 14 pounds = 6.35029318 kilograms slawie | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1311 Registered: 11-2004 |
yep slawie..one big chunk of wood, brass and electronics. Hence the comfort strap!! |
