| Author | Message | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 585 Registered: 9-2008 |
this is a follow up to this thread http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/85671.html?1284175870 well come to find out, my drummer also has the 2x15 cabinet that came with the head that he had hiding under a blanket. unfortunately, both of the speakers are blown because his son decided to have a party some years back and had the volume way too high. i'm thinking about offering him $175 for both because he does need some money, leave the head there(because i do have another rig) but be able to take it with me if some unfortunate events occure, and then take the cabinet with me and get the speakers replaced. so here's my question, what brand/model speakers should i get that will have the most "bang for the buck"? i'm not really trying to put a ton of money into this since it'll mostly be a back up to my normal rig/used at small venues or parties. thanks ~Taylor | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9857 Registered: 5-2002 |
This is out of my field of expertise (not that I even have a field of expertise) but I'm thinking that the right speaker for the cab has a lot to do with the design of the cab; dimensions, porting, etc. And since you're using it with a particular head, I'm also guessing that the speakers should match up with the watts and ohms of the head as well. So perhaps your starting point would be to find out what kind of speakers originally came in the cab, get the specs on those speakers, and then see what else is comparable. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1552 Registered: 9-2002 |
I was one of those guys that in the old days when it seemed the rage to update cabs like this to EV's or JBLs, that was just what one did. If it were me today, I'd feel differently. Bass amps now have progressed so far past those rigs, now I'd 'restore' them to get that sound they originally had with Jensens I suppose, or find 'update' speakers from that time. 'Orange' frame JBL's? Of course, when I remember lugging those heavy, underpowered monsters around (WHY did I think I needed TWO folded-18 bins with a 200 watt head??), now I remember why I feel slightly queasy when I see a Coliseum or a Peavey Festival in a used instrument store. J o e y | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1401 Registered: 5-2009 |
Dave , Here you go ; Thiele/ Small Parameters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 586 Registered: 9-2008 |
don't get me wrong Joey, i'd love to restore this amp, clean up the head and everything, i guess i'm just wanting to do the option that's the cheapest, i love the sound of the head through the 18" i play through and am dying to hear it through the 2x15's. this rig would also be a lot more convenient to transport than my main rig which is always a plus :-D. just found these, guy is selling off all his Sunn gear and is selling the speakers seperate, seem like a good idea to go for them? http://cgi.ebay.com/Electrovoice-EVM-15B-/270665194232?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f04e71af8 ~Taylor | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1402 Registered: 5-2009 |
Taylor , These ! http://cgi.ebay.com/Gauss-4582-15-Speakers-/280580391443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4153e50213#ht_500wt_922 As far as old school goes GAUSS was KING ! | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 587 Registered: 9-2008 |
thanks Wolf, that certainly would be awesome to have, but buying those and the amp would drain my bank account :-( ~Taylor | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2792 Registered: 10-2002 |
Taylor - I'd go for the EVs. Graeme | ||
| lmiwa
Advanced Member Username: lmiwa Post Number: 314 Registered: 2-2008 |
Watch the shipping on the EVM's. If he's going to charge you $50 for shipping them both, that's just silly. At least make sure the second one ships free. Loch | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 588 Registered: 9-2008 |
I sent him a message and he claims that's the actually shipping price and that he's making no money on shipping ~Taylor | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 802 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wouldn't be surprised if that's the actual shipping. Shipping costs have dramatically increased in the last few years. While the Gauss speakers would be fun, they are less efficient and a little bit more fragile. EVMs are really hard to blow up and have a nice sound. I have a EV designed TL 606 box that I've had a McCauley in for a while and am going to load it up with an Eminence Deltalite 3015. From what I've heard, it's a big improvement on the JBL/EVs of yore. I love those old drivers but want something that goes a little deeper with a bigger xmax. I'm also intrigued with the fEARful cabs being touted at Talkbass. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1405 Registered: 5-2009 |
I recently did A and B testing between 15 inch GAUSS 4582 and 15 inch JBL K140 . Both were in separate identical Alembic A15 cabinets. As a power source a Yamaha P-2200 Amplifier , Each of the Speakers were driven through discreet channels . The signal source was An HP signal generator set at aprox. 1 volt . During a slow Manual SINE wave sweep from 4Hz to 20khz It was quite apparent how much better THe GAUSS was able to handle the lower frequency ranges then the JBL with out breaking up with distortion . The Gauss really came alive @ Wattage over 100 WATTS RMS with still no problems @ 41 HZ ( low E) , at over 200 Watts RMS I had to stop the test with the JBL because I did not want to Damage it. The Gauss can take it! . The JBL K140 sounds nice at lower power ranges then the Gauss but is more fragile then the Gauss in my opinion . However the Gauss is not as efficient as the JBL but can really " Hammer" those high wattage lower frequencies . Where they might be fragile Is if you drop them because they can be prone to voice coil rub due to misalignment as a result. They have huge heavy magnet assemblies. As far as EV's go I love the EV 10's They are my Favorites at the moment because of their staccato articulation that I like .I have them in MESA BOOGIE Road ready Cabinets. Sonic Regards !! | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1137 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm talking to my speaker guy and he says average cross country usps parcel post shipping for a 25 lb 15" speaker runs him about 30-35 per speaker...55-60 for priority shipping. If you get a good deal on the EV's then I guess that would even out the total costs. I have a couple old 15" EV's that my friend is reconditioning, I'll have him sweep test and evaluate them once they are done. I might be willing to part with them for a reasonable price if the ebay listing gets too spendy. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1407 Registered: 5-2009 |
Hi elwoodblue , Yes , Old EV 15's can be great speakers. I once had a pair of EV SRO speakers in an old Sunn cabinet. It was the first decent Bass cabinet that I ever owned , I think I was 16 when I found it in the " want ads " section of the San Francisco Examiner back in the early 70's. The Guy that had it was willing to deliver it since I did not have a car so he dropped if off while my Father was at Work. When My Dad came home it was still in the living room! I will never forget the face he made ! He liked it even more when I told him I still needed an AMP . Three weeks later I had my first decent Amp ; A Black Face Fender Dual Showman that was sold to me by Don Wehr @ Don Wehrs Music CIty ! He used to say " If I can't get , you don't want it !" Those were the Days _________ LOL _____1972! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 804 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hey Wolf! Thanks for the info and the experiments! That pretty much confirms my experience with Gauss speakers. I still have one 12 that functions. Your first rig sounds like one I had when I was a student at UC Santa Cruz. There was a guy who wanted to go off to Tahoe to bet on the Super Bowl so I paid him $100 cash for a Showman and a double 15 Altec cab with SROs (and a ridiculous horn). It was OK, but frustrating in that it didn't get loud enough to keep up with my bandmates' Twins. At that time I had a McIntosh 2105 sitting at home in Boston, but couldn't afford to ship it out. When I left school to go back home, I gave away the cabinet and then sold the amp in Boston for $100, so it all worked out. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1138 Registered: 6-2002 |
Having supportive parents can be a blessing, nice story Wolf . The EV's I have were getting a little relaxed so my neighbor and friend who has been working professionally on speakers (mostly JBL's,Altec, and Gauss) and sound systems since the 70's offered to clean them up and reinforce the cones with the proper coatings. The resonant frequency probably dropped a little with the extra mass of the coatings...they look like they will last a lot longer now. I'm using one vintage JBL 2225 in by bottom cab for gigs and it's the best sound I've ever had. (the SF-2 boosted at 40-45 hz is wonderful too) I tried two and my eyeballs were shaking ...good for outside gigs, a little much for small bars  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1409 Registered: 5-2009 |
elwoodblue, I think I still have a "new old stock" JBL 2225 that I picked up in sale a while ago . I think it has a shipping label on it that reads "KSAN". ( that was a famous F.M. radio station ) I might soon put it in a ported cabinet that I have that currently has a JBL D130 in it. I am going to remove the D130 and install the 2225 . I think the 2225 will be better suited for Bass. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1410 Registered: 5-2009 |
edwin , I like the Gauss 12's as well ; talk about punch ! The 15's Growl ! And the 18's push enough air to part your hair ! Ok , that's enough Gauss talk from me now _______ | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1139 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wolf, I have had the opportunity to A-B different JBLs for my bass and the 2225 was definitely the deepest sounding. The voice coil on the 2225 has almost twice the windings as the 2205 (which sounds pretty damn good). Here's a pic of a stage we set up this summer... 2225's on the bottom for bass, 2205's for low mids, 10" JBLs for the high mids and Gauss drivers in the horns up top...I'm hoping next time we set it up I'll be able to play through it with my band instead of just doing FOH duties .  (sorry for the sidetrack Taylor) | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 589 Registered: 9-2008 |
No harm done guys, please continue if you like, nothing wrong with a little bit of info, right? ~Taylor | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 809 Registered: 5-2002 |
Elwoodblue, that is an old school PA! What a refreshing sight after all the line arrays I encounter all the time. There are some advantages to a line array, but all too often they seem to do to live sound what an mp3 does to recorded audio. OK, in the meantime, I might try taking my Gauss 12 out of the monitor it's in and put in one of my bass cabinets to see how that sounds. Edwin | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1418 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks Taylor, Perhaps I will ____ Thanks for letting us have some shop talk in your thread. Elwoodblue , Cool ! That looks a good sized set up. What are your power amps & active cross overs ? other signal processing ? What Board are you using ? | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1141 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks Taylor! I will too... We used Mackie 2600's for the lows and low mids, we borrowed the Stewart 2.1 from my bass rig for the 10's, and Mackie 1400's for the highs. I think the crossover was a bi-amp. We were using a 24 channel Soundcraft with compressor inserts for the kick,snare,and bass git...with dig. delay and reverb in the aux sends. It was a hot day (90+) and at about 2:00 (we started around 11:00) the sun hit the power rack and the 2600's shut down  ...some quick work with a box fan and cardboard for shade things cooled down, the bass was back after a few minutes...phew : ) Here's a pic from the back with the monitor board:  The cabs were from a system used in the Seattle Paramount in the 70's and toured with Merrilee Rush and Bob Marley. I'm using one of those bottom cabs in my current bass rig. ...and a video of one of the bands that day, the guys camera mic didn't pickup much FOH sound ...100 feet back from the stage the bass still moved your chest. youtube (it was awesome to see an Alembic show up, he was playing through an Earth stack) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1419 Registered: 5-2009 |
Kool , thanks for telling about the system and sharing the vid. |
