| Author | Message | ||
| effclef
Member Username: effclef Post Number: 85 Registered: 1-2004 |
I gave my niece, seventeen, my old Aria Pro II bass which I bought new in 1984 for $209.00. She made noises about wanting to play bass, so I found her a practice amp at a flea market, and passed on the Aria and associated stuff to get her going. She got a few bass books for Christmas. One of the ones I gave her which impressed me so much I bought my own copy was BASS GUITAR FOR DUMMIES. I like the layout and readability and the way things are grouped together. And it comes with a CD of the tracks. Anyway - I am still a beginner because I have always had bass as a second, third, fourth priority hobby compared to things which were easier or more immediately gratifying. I took a few lessons, back in the old days, with a boring teacher and some awful Mel Bay books. So I never stuck with it, but yet I always loved the sound of the bass, and want to make it more of a prime hobby for me now. So I set my niece up for lessons with the son of a coworker of mine. He is a great young man, educated at music school and in his own band. He plays a four string Zon. My niece was so excited about getting lessons. Her first was the other evening, and because her "rich uncle" (NOT) is going to foot the bill for them for a while, I was allowed to sit in on the lesson. I figure I can learn as much as she can, though hopefully her young brain can absorb it quicker than I can... Well let me tell you - it was an amazing experience seeing a young lady learn from a great teacher. He began by showing her how to tune it, how to hold it, how to pluck with two fingers...the basics. I could tell right away that the guy is a great, patient teacher. At the same time, my niece impressed me because she retained what he was telling her. She was concerned about the fret buzz she was getting...we told her that it goes away with practice and as your hands get stronger. About twenty minutes later, he had her running a C scale up and down and I pointed out that the buzz was gone. She was shocked, because she thought she would never "get it." One of her school friends (self taught guitarist...you can imagine) taught her to play "Smoke on the Water." Yesterday the teacher taught her how to play it the RIGHT way, and she was more and more excited about how things were progressing. It seemed to be real JOY on her face, as she did things that began to sound musical. She's got her second lesson in a couple of weeks, and I will be sitting in again. We both can't wait. He left her with some written notes for practicing and told her to work on some finger exercises (four fingers/four frets, across the neck) to start building strength. I guess my point of the post is to convince those of you who may be like me - a permanent beginner - to have hope and realize that with practice, things can begin to happen. And for anyone who is trying to encourage a young kid, especially one on bass, that you should help them find the kind of teacher who can light that spark. EffClef | ||
| hollis
Member Username: hollis Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks for the very nice story. It brought a smile to my face. One thing though...forget the spark.......FLAME ON! Not really, I know that without the spark, there can be no flame. I guess what I'm trying to get across is once the spark is there, fan it with every fiber of your being! Here's to hopes that the flame stays lit always. I'm sure it has something to do with becoming teachable.... There's balance in the learning. The more I learn, the more I find out there is to learn.....etc. Anyhow, thanks for the story! -Hollis | ||
| keavin
Member Username: keavin Post Number: 95 Registered: 12-2002 |
hey cool kid!,sounds like shes got it,(what it takes to be a good player.) theres nothing like the birth of a brandnew bassplayer! | ||
| bassman10096
Advanced Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 253 Registered: 7-2003 |
Really nice tale. Lots to learn in it too. Hope you continue to enjoy your neice's learning for a long while. Bill | ||
| bob
Intermediate Member Username: bob Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2002 |
Great story, effclef - thanks for taking the time to pass it on. Maybe it will encourage me to post some of my own thoughts on learning... -Bob | ||
| effclef
Member Username: effclef Post Number: 86 Registered: 1-2004 |
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I hope she sticks with it. She definitely loves the sound, and I have given her lots of classic-rock-reggae-bass-oriented CDs to listen to over the past year. Of course, being a fossil, I haven't heard/heard of many of the bands she now likes, but it's nice that she thinks Pink Floyd is "cool" anyway. ;-) Kind of reminds me of a story I heard. Guy was in a record store and some teenage girls were looking at CDs. One of them, looking through Wings discs, exclaimed, "Oh wow! Paul McCartney used to be in a BAND!!!!" As for my own past, the frustration was being told to learn from the horrible Mel Bay Vol 1 bass book - probably has the same contents as when it was first done in 1959. "On Top of Old Smokey" is not a great bassline. But what eluded me for years, years and years, up until last year in fact, was that I never knew why the different keys had the sharps and flats they did. I never understood WHY. It wasn't until I started thinking in terms of whole and half steps and visualizing a piano keyboard that it made sense. OH!!!!! So you keep the same steps between notes, but if you start on A, then you need to shift whole-whole-half-whole-whole-whole-half just like you had on the C scale (white notes) and therefore that's where the steps make the sharps and flats to go with the starting note. I don't think ANY of the dozen bass guitar books I have bought have ever explained that. Ever! They just show the staff and off you go, memorize it. As a rank beginner, I am still trying to stretch my hands and build up strength. It's getting easier. Sometimes - does anyone else do this? - I find myself playing a few tones, chordal or not, and getting a little mesmerized by the sound, and just enjoy repeating them. It is almost like meditation at times. (I do wake up, imagine Dino's postings here, and get back to my scale practice.) I picked my username for a reason - it's been my stumbling block for 20 years and I want to master it. EffClef | ||
| bassman10096
Advanced Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 255 Registered: 7-2003 |
"On Top of old Smokey" brings back some verrrrry distant and not too inspiring memories. "Down in the Valley" anyone???? (i.e. "How could my interest in continuing guitar lessons with this teacher, SINK SO LOW?" (sung to the classic tune)) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1196 Registered: 9-2002 |
Eff I tried to master that clef in formal upright studies. A moment comes that you start thinking of music as being "Sheetmusic" (shut up Dannobasso). I know at least 4 highly trained virtuoso classical trained musicians ...who admire me. Because I was able to sit in with bass and small Danelectro practice amp and join the rambling and joy of a pianoplayer and a guitarplayer. They said "YOU can play music ...we can play notes in the first place. IFF it's music is to others to decide. We just perform what is written. You play on the coordination of mind, hart and hands." I was embarrassed. They exagerated but ...there is a small thruth in it. BTW my Brother Paul the Fake one (theartist you all used to call Dino) will agree on this I think. If you can finf the perfect groove in 1-5,1-5, 1-5, ...that will be heaven for ALL the others (soloing) artists with you. Imagine this: what would happen if I would NOT 1-5, 1-5, 1-5 ... oh-oh Paul the bad one | ||
| hollis
Member Username: hollis Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2003 |
Let us not forget the ever unenlightening "Far Far Away"...... One of my closest friends is a concert pianist, it took him years to perfect his craft......It has taken him longer to play music that's not written down for him (or by him for that matter). He really had a lot of trouble improvising...He has gotten over that bump in the musical road, but it required a concentrated effort (and a lot of prodding) before he was able to sit down at the piano and just play..... Please don't misunderstand my meaning here. I believe learning to read music and as much theory as you can stand is a very good thing, I guess what I'm trying to say is; Don't get hung up on it. Not being able to play without music in front of you is tantamount to not being able to speak without reading aloud from a book. I live for the free flow of musical interchange. It's my passion. It renews my spirit. Etc. -Hollis | ||
| keavin
Intermediate Member Username: keavin Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2002 |
the universal vibe of freeflow is a spiritual gift,(its a plant that has to be watered early),and the end result is full throttle chops and improvisaion!(of course along with studying along the way) | ||
| bracheen
Advanced Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 321 Registered: 11-2003 |
My biggest problem with sheet music is I have the hardest time getting a rhythm from looking at the page. I have to hear it for it to make sense. I have that Bass for Dummies book. It is easy to follow. Paul, I like that thought, coordination of the mind, heart, and hands. That's what it's about. Sam | ||
| effclef
Member Username: effclef Post Number: 91 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hollis, some great thoughts. I feel that the importance in learning to read is not that it teaches you how to speak, but it teaches you the LANGUAGE that you can then piece together to speak. I would buy a bass DVD instruction video in an instant if it taught me how to LISTEN to bass theory. In other words...play for me the 1-5, 1-5, 1-5, and let me get that in my head. Play mixolydian mode and let me hear the difference between it and dorian mode, etc. etc. I swear that musical notation is as complicated as it is because back in 1622 we had to save on ink. Sam, I agree with you also - it is hard to hear, in your mind (as a beginner) the rhythm of a piece by seeing the notes. My niece's instructor encouraged her to get a metronome and be vigilant in that part of her practice should be along with measured beats. I found the CD in the back of BASS GUITAR FOR DUMMIES handy for that - the rhythm becomes more clear when you hear it and follow along in the page. One negative on that CD, though, is that they don't split each separate bassline exercise into a separate track, so you can simply put the CD player on loop. (It groups four or five small exercises together in a CD track. I think my CD burning software can separate tracks by the silence between them so maybe I'll try making a copy and splitting all of them...and labelling the book exercises accordingly.) My niece had the old Aria at the dinner table the other night and my mother said, "Gee, that guitar has a really long handle!" (i.e. the neck) All those years growing up listening to rock and roll through a monophonic AM (mediumwave to Paul TBO!) radio meant that I never really knew what an electric bass guitar sounded like. I too laughed at American Bandstand or whatever, when I saw the guy with "that huge guitar" and pointed it out to my brother, who was savvy enough to tell me that it was a BASS guitar... Was that my spark? Probably not -- I think it was more likely hearing Aston "Family Man" Barrett on Bob Marley LPs. Well anyway - I am glad this has stirred up some inspirational discussion. I am sure the instructor will have my niece doing the 1/5 1/5 1/5 routine very quickly! EffClef | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1208 Registered: 9-2002 |
I saw Victor Wooten once "just" playing 1/5 1/5 1/5 1/5 ...man ...it GROOVED! | ||
| keavin
Intermediate Member Username: keavin Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2002 |
speaking of victor(wooten),,did you know stanley (clarke) gave him the very alembic that he recorded "school days" with.victor explains this his web site,thats somthing aint it? victor also owns one of stanley,s upright basses ,the one he recorded "desert song" with,... just in case any one didnt know. | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 106 Registered: 1-2004 |
Well I talked to my niece and she claims she has been diligent about practicing. I said, "so now you will never forget that the C scale starts on the 8th fret on the E string and goes 2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, right?" She said yes...funny how she thought a simple scale would be daunting at her first lesson. You know what's funny? Now _I_ will always remember that pattern, too! I've been trying to run the scale and sing the notes as I go, to drill them in. Maybe Dino would be proud (brother Paul the Fake One, not Dino the Martin one). hee Her second lesson is this week. I'll let you folks know how she progresses. At any rate, my old $209 Aria couldn't be in happier hands! EffClef | ||
| keavin
Advanced Member Username: keavin Post Number: 201 Registered: 12-2002 |
hey effcleff, can you show us the aria,i used to have one long time ago,but i traded it (as a down payment)for the alembic | ||
| goatfoot
Junior Username: goatfoot Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2003 |
So, fellow Alembicians, what instructional book/video was most helpful in your becoming a better player? I'm by no means a pro, but I've gotten the most out of Ed Friedland's "Building Walking Basslines" and Dr. Lick's "Standing in the Shadow of Motown." What I'd like to get out my next book is help building a groove or interesting line just from looking at a progression of chords. Ideas? Kevin (Message edited by goatfoot on April 06, 2004) | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 107 Registered: 1-2004 |
Keavin, I don't have any shots of it, but it's a 1983-84 Aria PRO II RSB Series bass. Looks like a blonde P bass - single split P pickup, volume, tone. Clear finish, ash body/maple neck and white pickguard. Around 1987 I stuck black hardware on it, and put a Seymour Duncan active pickup in it. I took that out before giving it to my niece. :-) I figured she would never remember to unplug it! I've only seen one on the Net for sale before, just like mine, and like an idiot I didn't save the JPG. If I get a chance, I will snap a shot of it sometime soon. For what it was, it was a decent little bass, and made in Japan. It didn't strike me until I played other basses that the frets were REALLY small - guitar frets perhaps? EffClef | ||
| keavin
Advanced Member Username: keavin Post Number: 209 Registered: 12-2002 |
one good thing is, its still in the family. | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2004 |
Well, Keavin, it surprised me that she liked it so much. I mean it doesn't look GOTH like all the kids seem to want nowadays. I emphasized that I didn't want it back, and that it was hers forever, and that if she wanted to plaster it with stickers or whatever, it's her choice. She said she wouldn't do that because she likes the look as it is. The store I bought it from, around the time I had my own lessons there (1985?) had two Alembics hanging high on the wall behind the counter. I could not believe the look of them - I asked what woods they were, and they said one was coco bolo and the other was quilted maple. I believe they were both Series I basses in the standard point style and I remember at least one price tag was $1600. Kevin, as for instructional book, I am impressed with Bass Guitar for Dummies. For under $20 it seems like a nice one. They do have chapters on building grooves. Instead of the next new CD, pick that up and see if you like it! EffClef | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2004 |
Well my niece's second lesson went very well. The instructor decided to teach her that rock and roll is based a lot of times on the pentatonic scale. So to begin, he had her do the C minor pentatonic scale: C Eb F G Bb C - C minor pentatonic 1 b3 4 5 b7 1 - scale functions Basic minor pentatonic scale |-b3--|-----|--4--|-----| -G string |-b7--|-----|--1--|-----| |--4--|-----|--5--|-----| |--1--|-----|-----|-b3--| -E string Starting on the 8th fret of the E string... He got her grooving the following: 1-b3-1, b3-4-b3, 4-5-4, etc etc. Then he began playing the same groove on his bass, and so she had to follow along at the same time. She had lots of false starts but he kept encouraging her. Eventually, she made four repetitions without missing a beat. She was shocked and very pleased with herself. I pointed out that hey, twenty minutes ago, she didn't know how to do that! Next, he picked a groove out of the Bass Guitar for Dummies book, and played it on the CD player to let her hear the timing. (He was impressed that the book teaches by fretboard diagrams, tablature, and clef.) She learned that groove, which only had four different pitches, in a couple of minutes, and again, he made her follow along in sync with his bass. I am very impressed by this young teacher. He is doing a great job of inspiring and educating the both of us. And what really impresses me, and what is UNLIKE most bass books I struggled with so many years ago, is that he is starting her out up high on the neck, where it is easier to physically reach the frets. That takes SO much of the difficulty and frustration out. She's doing great, and couldn't be more excited about playing bass guitar. EffClef | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1264 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Andy, that IS GREAT! What i really like about that teacher is that HE JOINED with her. Bass-playing is for me still 90% about playing TOGETHER. Even just MUSIC PLAYING is about playing together and feeling the bond that start to lock. An amazing feeling, you know that, and I am sure your niece feels it too now!! Paul the bad one | ||
| bracheen
Advanced Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2003 |
My original bass teacher was a guitar player by trade. He would show me things on the bass and then join me with his guitar. That was not only educational but fun! I'm convinced that one can only progress so far alone. To really advance other musicians are needed not only for perspective but motivation. Playing scales or even with cds gets boring after awhile. Joining with others keeps the excitement alive and provides comaraderie. Sam | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 119 Registered: 1-2004 |
Paul TBO - yes, I was impressed that he did that also. Like Arlo Guthrie, she sometimes had to "wait for it to come around again" (Alice's Restaurant) but she was VERY very pleased with herself when she was able to repeat the pattern three times with him without stumbling. He told her she should get a metronome but playing with him is good practice also. I have a small Korg metronome that _I_ should also be using. It does odd meters, triplets with the center note omitted, etc etc - very handy for hearing what the ink on the page should sound like. He also mentioned that one of his flaws when starting out was to learn scales all the way up and down the neck - lots of practice made him good at that, but he found later on that it did not exactly teach him how to play _music_. I am glad he is mixing things up with theory, scales, and at least one groove to make her hear what a bassline should sound like. Sam, what is a good way to find other musicians to play with? For my niece, she has lots of contact with school friends, but how does an adult do so? EffClef | ||
| bracheen
Advanced Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 376 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hang out at music shops. If you take your instrument in for service or setup, just start talking to people. At clubs talk to the musicians at break about gear or whatever. You have a guarenteed common interest. I've had offers to play on the spot just by comparing equipment with a bass player during his smoke break. If you're confident enough in your playing open mike nights can be good. I know other musicians through work, my wife's work. Her former boss is in a cover band. They've invited me to sit in with them. Old friends,I bet you know someone who plays guitar. I don't know if you go to church or if so what kind of music program they have but talk to those guys. We're all over the place, like a plague. It's kind of like meeting people to go out with. But like dating don't be over aggresive. You wouldn't want to walk up to someone and say "Hi I'm Andy. Do you wanna play with me?" Get to know folks and develop friendships and let it happen. For a naturally shy guy like me it can take real effort but can also be worth the pain of coming out of my shell. Which by the way gets easier as I get older. This speach makes me sound like an old pro. I'm not, I'm pretty much a rookie with others because of self esteem issues but it's getting better. The more you let others hear you, the less it's a big deal. Good luck. Sam | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1274 Registered: 9-2002 |
I started playing bands on regular basis when I was 42. I'm 49 years old now and going steady now with 2 bands you know: BLUE STUFF and DRIVE. BLUE STUFF was the one I stared with and I just reacted on a small add in a music-store. They asked a bass-player and I the small poster was very "modest" and simple. I went to the audition (only later I heard there were 2 other candidates) and was chosen ...well ...on the spot. We all have about the same age, Luc -our singer in BLUES STUFF- is our "dean" with 57 years. In DRIVE I'm with younger people: around 30. I'm not the taking the front player but because my ...hm ...how should I put this ..."format" + the bass + the rig ...well ...it's difficult to look "Around" me. LOL Paul the bad one Sam, playlist is coming!!!! | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2004 |
The best music theory I have ever seen: John Brimhall's "Complete Theory Notebook" Everything from the notes on the staff to modes and the cycle of 5'ths. Everyone I have lent it to has learned lots from it. It's just a little book, maybe 60 pages, easy to go through and has quizzes, etc... No idea if you can still get it, mine has copyright '69! SoM | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 492 Registered: 5-2002 |
It appears to be out of print; but right now there is one used at Amazon for 19.95. | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2004 |
That's pretty cool. Mine still has the sticker on the back: $5.95. Just a good little book with all the basics presented in a straight forward manner. | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 150 Registered: 1-2004 |
A brief update. My niece had her fourth lesson this week and the instructor and I were both astonished at her ability. Though she still needs to be careful of buzzing frets, her MEMORY for where the notes are really surprises us. He showed her how to make arpeggios on the C scale. He had her run 1-3-5 from each of the seven (eight) notes. This included major, minor, and I believe the VII was a diminished arpeggio. First he had her do it starting with each root on the A string, and just running up the neck for each the next root note to do the next arpeggio. Then he had her do this across all four strings, starting on the E. Now, it was a fairly fast lesson, done without diagrams - just show and tell, and as he wrote out her notes on paper he had her replay the arpeggios - she did it from memory, pretty much perfectly. As a spectator, I couldn't have memorized things that fast! We were really, really impressed. I think if she sticks with it, she's going to be a natural. EffClef | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 541 Registered: 5-2002 |
That's a great exercise. | ||
| mint_bass
Intermediate Member Username: mint_bass Post Number: 159 Registered: 1-2004 |
that is great news sounds like the teacher knows what he is doing good luck to her and her new hobby andrew | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 159 Registered: 1-2004 |
Dave/Andrew - thanks for the encouragement. It has sparked up my interest as well. One GREAT thing about this exercise is that she (and I, as a spectator) could HEAR immediately if she missed a note. The arpeggios made things more noticeable. I am thinking about buying a beater bass to leave on her porch so I can join in... ;-) One negative, the instructor's Zon has no front fretboard dots. This is a slight handicap when trying to explain positioning to the student (who has dots). But she is getting it, even so. EffClef | ||
| effclef
Intermediate Member Username: effclef Post Number: 176 Registered: 1-2004 |
I forgot to mention - last week's lesson had him teaching her the bass grooves for MONEY, PETER GUNN, and LOW RIDER! Sounds like it was fun - unfortunately I was commissioned into fixing the family's computer in the other room, so I wasn't able to sit in and watch. She needs to be more vigilant about fretting close to the fretwires. Buzzing. However I never knew how small the frets were on the Aria until I got another bass. I think they are regular guitar frets - very low. I got her a $9.99 stand at Guitar Center since I saw the bass leaning against her bookshelf one day. She does usually keep it in the case. EffClef |
