| Author | Message | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 595 Registered: 9-2008 |
hello everyone, i am considering investing in a fretless bass soon, only problem is that it has no kind of indication of where you are playing at(no inlays anywhere). i have a fretless acoustic which has markers on it so i know how it suppose to sound but when you're jumping around a lot you don't usually have time to waste finding where you're at. so what i'm thinking of doing when i get it is take some kind of dry erase marker or something that can be wiped off, and spend a day marking where each fret would be at on the side, anyone think this could be practical? what else could i do to help know where i'm at(besides practice of course :-p)? also, i hate the nylon fretless strings, they tear right through my fingers rendering me not able to play fretless anymore until they stop being sore, my acoustic is setup with some bronze strings to get that more acoustic sound, so my question is what kind of strings should i get that won't tear up the fretboard for this new bass? thanks guys ~Taylor | ||
| briant
Senior Member Username: briant Post Number: 493 Registered: 12-2004 |
Most unlined fretless basses I've seen still have side dots. So there you go. Built in guide to where you are on the neck. You could also have fret slots cut/filled to convert it to a lined fretless. I like Elixer polyweb strings on fretless. | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 597 Registered: 9-2008 |
Brian, problem is, there are no side dots, seller said this, "First of all, in case anyone asks, there are NO markings on the neck - either on the fretboard or the sides of the neck - to indicate notes. So if you're a beginning fretless player, while the price is right, it might be difficult to learn on unless you take it in and have someone add dots for you...." so no markings at all ~Taylor | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1184 Registered: 5-2006 |
I use masking tape to mark some positions on my basses, they will wear down but are very inexpensively replaced. | ||
| slawie
Advanced Member Username: slawie Post Number: 283 Registered: 8-2002 |
In the past I have used luminescent stars that stick that you can get from the Discovery store. These are the kind of stickers that you can put on a ceiling that luminate when you turn the lights off it helps a lot on dimly lit stages. If you get your tuner and mark the intonation along the neck for each "fret stop" practice and repetition does the rest. slawie | ||
| mike13
Member Username: mike13 Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2007 |
My SGC Nanyo with PJ activators and side dots is for sale $1100AUD | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1444 Registered: 5-2009 |
Taylor, I think you are on the right track. But , consider this ; their are no markers on a Double Bass , a Violin or a Cello. The way that classical players find the correct pitch is by learning the positions. One of my fretless Bass's does not have lines so I can understand your concern . The fact that you seem dedicated shows that you are going some where with all of this .I played Double Bass for a while but I currently do not own one . Perhaps one of our current Double Bass players will chime in with their opinion . In the early 90's I attended some clinics taught by Mark Egan and I asked him the same question that you are posing . I told him that I was trying to use double bass positions for fretless electric playing ; he answered me by stating that if that works for me , Why not . I think that as part of your practice schedule it might be prudent to really get in to scales and ear training on your fretless playing. Really get into being able to hear and identify intervals to help you get your intonation right. I think that what slawie and fc spoiler have written is also very helpful. Playing fretless can really be fun but consider that the more energy that you put into it the better the result_ just like anything else_____ Don't Stop ; Keep Doing It ! Have fun doing it ____ | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 598 Registered: 9-2008 |
thanks Flip and Slawie, masking tape would certainly be the easiest route to go which is what i'll probably end up doing, but i still like the star "stickers" as well(use to have them as little one :-), and i will definitely do the intonation suggestion to help mark the spots. Mike, the bass that i'm looking at is at a more affordable price as of now, it's a Westone Thunder III so hoping it will stay low so i can get myself a little Christmas present :-). still loking for string suggestions and reviews about them, thanks sorry i missed your post Wolf! thanks for the kind words. i had totally forgotten about double bass and all the other orchestral instrument because i've never actually played one, i did screw around with a double bass for about 5 minutes until the music store owner started giving me funny looks. i've really been wanting to get a good fretless that i can play during a gig because let's face it, an acoustic fretless just isn't useful for playing rock gigs :-). as i said, hopefully i'll be able to snag this bass and really get into playing more fretless. ~Taylor (Message edited by tmoney61092 on November 30, 2010) | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 599 Registered: 9-2008 |
Mike, also wanted to say i didn't mean to offend you when i said more affordable, i meant more affordable for me since i'm working on a very tight budget and don't have that much money to spend ~Taylor | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Advanced Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 275 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hey, Taylor. When I started playing upright I placed little bit's of tape on the side of the neck at the 1st 3rd and 5th position. That is the 2nd fret, the 5th fret and the 9th fret. It really helped. Then when I went to music school I was tought the Vomit exercises. I was also tortured into having correct hand position. This is created by training your hand to have the spacing of an octave from your index finger to your pinky. In my case the Doctor who ran the school put wine corks between my fingers till my hand was wide enough to make the octave. The fretless guitars are not nearly the length and width of the string basses so it is not as difficult to have good hand spacing. But just as important. I guess what I'm trying to say is the only way to get good tone is to have good intonation, which means good hand position. If you can find a good example of the Vomit's then they are invaluable. The worksheet I have includes about a dozen exercises. The easy ones can be found online. Good luck! Nick | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Advanced Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 276 Registered: 7-2009 |
oh, yeah. My choice for string for all fretless instruments are Tomastic spiracore. I prefer the Red/wine windings. The pyramid gold flats are nice too. Nick | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 849 Registered: 11-2005 |
Nickel strings will be the best bet and as far as your poor little fingers go... buck up young man! You gotta play to get through the pain. Let us know how it goes. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1445 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks Nick for chiming in . For an unfinished fingerboard ( raw wood) I like the the Thomastik and Pyramid Gold Flats as well. For a fingerboard that has a coating (Jaco style) however I like a roundwound. The round wounds that I like are Dean Markley Blue Steel. I hear Jaco liked Roto-Sounds . One of my Fretless Jazz Bass's has a coating on the fingerboard. | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 600 Registered: 9-2008 |
thanks for all the tips guys. i sent the seller a question asking if it had a finished or "raw" fretboard so hopefully will be hearing something soon. all i've used are roundwounds and highly preffer the D'Addario 170's but have been wanting to try some Elixir medium gauge strings lately for a more smooth sound ~Taylor | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1559 Registered: 9-2002 |
As much as I'd like the look of a completely blank fingergoard, I've played fretted forever and IF I were going to fretless, I'd get a lined one with flush light wood strips. I had a friend in Texas who was a fabulous fretless player who recommended this as I'd never played upright and did not know the positions. In this case, you simply play ON the fret-strip on the 'sharp' side of the note, and there you are. The few times I tried it, I went right to it as it fooled my brain into thinking I was still playing a fretted bass ! J o e y | ||
| darkstar01
Advanced Member Username: darkstar01 Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2005 |
honestly, for me learning a fretless instrument was just a matter of learning your positions and using your ear more. and I know that doesn't help you at all. but I just remember my first upright teacher would kill me when I looked at the fingerboard; "there's nothing there, stop looking and listen". it's all muscle memory after a while, but that attitude helped me get better at fretted electric, too. | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2007 |
I don't play fretless but if I were to tackle a fretboard without any markers I would use a technique I have used for fretted for a long time - I have a small hand so have always used all my fingers, including the little one. I use a lot of shapes within an octave span, that is using my 1st finger for bottom note and my little one for the top note. All fits in well in-between and with the thumb at the back of the neck for solid support then the hand position is firm. As has been said, then using ears for intonation and not looking at fretboard, I would hope to make the transfer to fretless a little less painful! Try playing scales, especially chromatic to get every interval there. Glynn | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1669 Registered: 2-2005 |
I have sidelines on my fretless. I did this as I like the look of a blank fingerboard. I have found that I really don't use the markings anymore. If I am off a touch my technique has developed such that I make the adjustment by rolling my finger to bring it to pitch. As for strings I use D'Addario Chromes. They took a week or two to loosen up but have sounded great since then. I'm still using the original set installed when the bass was built. Keith | ||
| benson_murrensun
Advanced Member Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 388 Registered: 5-2007 |
How about using those FretFX LEDs on the side of the fingerboard? They make them for fretless fingerboards, that is, they put the LEDs where the frets would be rather than in between fret positions (like side markers would be on a fretted instrument). | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 516 Registered: 6-2006 |
As others mentioned, tape on the side works great. I used a black 'pin stripping' tape on my upright in the same positions as Nick mentioned. My muscle memory and technique are advanced enough now to where I do not need to look to see where I am (plus my ear will certainly tell me when I missed my position!). But for starting out it was agreat help having the visual, and the black tape is not easily seen by those in the audience. I have a bazillion year old set of Fender Black Tapewounds on my fretless electric bass. They are low on the "mwah" factor but they don't chew up the fingerboard (unfinished)like roundwounds (high mwah factor). good luck. | ||
| svlilioukalani
Member Username: svlilioukalani Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2008 |
I put FretFX on my gigging fretless. I love those things. I would stay away from a fretless with no dots or marks on the neck. You can always put your own dots on the neck. But why waste your time. Just get a fretless that is ready to go. Sound like a big risk to get a bass you can't hear up close, and has the issue of no marks. There are many basses out there, a good fretless you can afford will come along. I play fretless and upright. I find that knowing your position on an upright bass is very different then an electric. Yes, the fret board is 41 inches on an upright, but the neck on an ends at A. So there is only a span of 7 frets to deal with befor the thumb comes over the top of the neck. Thats how they can do it with no marks. Now thumb positions that a different story. Which is why I use white out on the neck of my upright. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 888 Registered: 3-2004 |
I also use white-out, but just for side dots. I have a mid-range Yamaha classical guitar that came without fretboard inlays or side dots past fret 5. After a year or two the white-out side dots will wear off, but then I just reapply. I don't really even reference them much anymore, but they provide reference when I play with a capo, or have indulged in too many artisan spirits.  | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 602 Registered: 9-2008 |
With all the basses I own, I never tried them out, just listened to demos and read reviews/comparisons to basses I have played. The seller said the fretboard is unfinished so looks like I won't be using roundwounds :-/, any other good strings that don't tear the fretboard up on an unfinished neck? ~Taylor | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1448 Registered: 5-2009 |
Taylor ,The flats that both Nick and I mention are nice . Thomastik and Pyramid Gold Flats . | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2808 Registered: 10-2002 |
find out what the finger board is made of Taylor. If it's ebony it'll last for years using roundwounds. I've used DR roundwounds on my fretless rogue since 2005 and apart from some polishing there's no marks - certainly no grooves. Just be sure to oil it regularly. Graeme | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 603 Registered: 9-2008 |
Yea thanks Wolf, just trying to see all my options. Graeme, I went westone.info and the creator claims it to be ebony, I then went to a review on the website that says it's rosewood, and looking at the pictures it's definitely rosewood, how bad of an idea is it to use roundwounds on rosewood? Will it just eat through the fretboard quickly? Looks like I'll be trying the Elixirs on my Gibson ~Taylor | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Advanced Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 277 Registered: 7-2009 |
Even if it is Ebony I would stay away from the round wounds.I think they chew up the fingerboard. Especially as a new player. You will be bending strings and fingers to get intonation. That sideways movement will grind thru the wood. I did that to my first Kay bass. After 2 yrs the ebony had grooves.That was with flats! No matter what you do, have fun and let your ear be your guide. Nick | ||
| tubeperson
Intermediate Member Username: tubeperson Post Number: 134 Registered: 5-2005 |
For strings, try D'Addario Half rounds or ground rounds. You still retain much of the high end, without gouging the fretboard. | ||
| svlilioukalani
Member Username: svlilioukalani Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2008 |
I used GHS Brite Flats Bass Strings. Till I tried Alembic strings. But bright flats won't eat the neck like round wound. | ||
| slawie
Advanced Member Username: slawie Post Number: 284 Registered: 8-2002 |
(Message edited by slawie on December 02, 2010) | ||
| slawie
Advanced Member Username: slawie Post Number: 285 Registered: 8-2002 |
I use Rotosound 77's monel flatwound bass strings. I get a serious amout of "mwah" without compromising the fretboard with round wounds seeing as I have a rosewood board. slawie | ||
| darkstar01
Advanced Member Username: darkstar01 Post Number: 300 Registered: 6-2005 |
I've always used rounds on my fretless basses and I've never had any serious issues with them eating up my fingerboards. I don't particularly care for flats on a fretless (unless it's an upright), as they just sound kind of dead to me. Just my totally unhelpful and opinionated 2 cents. | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 605 Registered: 9-2008 |
Well I guess I'm just going to try both flats and rounds to see what sounds best for me, thank you everyone for your help, this is why I love this club! All great people willing to help ~Taylor | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 813 Registered: 5-2002 |
I like the sound of roundwounds on a fretless so that's what I use. My fretless is a David King 5 and it's got a bloodwood fingerboard with an epoxy finish which has been on there since the mid 90s. For years, it was my main bass, with hours of play every day. I realize this is different from playing on an unfinished board, but I think in a lot of cases, wear from the strings is overstated. I also think that you should do what's best for the tone and if the fingerboard is a decent slab of wood, it will stand resurfacing every so often. I've played with bluegrass musicians who require a replane and refret almost every year on their guitars! | ||
| musashi
Intermediate Member Username: musashi Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2004 |
I agree with Edwin. It's a physical thing. If you play the bass at all you are going to get some wear-- it's metal against wood and wood is going to lose. Epoxy coatings and even phenolic fingerboards will show wear as well. I think Vigier had a metal fingerboard on offer some years ago. I played one at a NAMM show, but never lived with it, so I don't know if that showed wear or not, although I would presume that there must have been either some shiny polished spots, or else some minor scratches and abrasions over time... So, as Edwin wrote, I think the best thing to do is to simply find your tone, and then just do whatever is required for maintenance as things present themselves. | ||
| musashi
Intermediate Member Username: musashi Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2004 |
I should add that I use roundwounds, gauges .40 - .100. | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 690 Registered: 1-2008 |
I don't use fretless enough to justify the cost of an Alembic, but I have been using it a fair amount with the project I'm TRYING to form. I have a bolt-on Schecter Deluxe-4 (strung with DR Hi Beam flats) which actually sounds very good (after spending a BUNCH of time on the set-up). I decided I needed a "B" string, so I just ordered a Schecter Stilleto Studio-5 fretless (35" Neck-through with Maple/Walnut, Rosewood FB, Mahogany body, Bubinga top, EMG PUPs/preamp). The fretted version sounds nice and plays well, so I'm hopeful about the fretless. In order to get myself used to correct intonation, I plan on using it for all the fretless songs (of course) and everything that needs a "B" string: the Carvin LB76 will be going back in the closet. My SC has become my main bass for everything else (the Series I was breaking my back!!!). | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 456 Registered: 5-2002 |
I seem to remember that Alembic built a fretless with a stainless steel fingerboard back around 1980. Was this one of John McVie's basses? A metal fingerboard is exactly the kind of complex thing that everybody thinks about, but few are actually able to implement. Unlike a fretted bass where "pretty good" action is more than good enough almost all the time, getting a good tone with the fretless has a lot to do with being able to carefully control finger pressure (for me that's where the "mwah" comes from), and this makes having a good fingerboard setup very critical. David Fung | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 248 Registered: 6-2004 |
Austin has it exactly right - it is just playing and listening that is the key, not marks on the fingerboard. After a while your hands will remember where to go. If they don't, well, a fretless bass with fret markers can sound just as out of tune as one without. And often does, in the wrong hands. Rick | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1457 Registered: 5-2009 |
That makes sense . I remember playing a gig with 2 guitar players in a Venue where the stage was really close to the front door and this particular day the outside temperature was below 40 degrees F. Inside the venue it was well heated .As a result of patrons moving through the front door and leaving it opened for extended periods of time made the guitar players to go flat faster then me because they were right next to the cold draft and I was nicely situated at the further most corner from the draft that was blowing across the stage area . That night I had decided to bring my fretless Bass with out lines.There are no marks on that bass except for dots on the side. The results were that if I would not have been able to use my ears and muscle memory" in the moment" Nothing would have sounded in tune. I will never forget that night. Depending on lines would have not worked . | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9910 Registered: 5-2002 |
David; I believe it's this bass. Mica refers to it as "continuously fretted". | ||
| musashi
Intermediate Member Username: musashi Post Number: 128 Registered: 5-2004 |
I played a couple of fretless Vigier basses back in the day with metal fingerboards. One fingerboard was entirely made of metal, the other was either ebony or phenolic, but had a metal cap at the end of the board to facilitate slapping. They were interesting, and very lively... I can only imagine what that would be like on a Series instrument.... (John McVie goes for different sounds than I do.) I found the following on a quick search through google: "Vigier Delta Metal Fretless Fingerboard Only Vigier offers this unique fingerboard. Gold in color, it is immediately striking and has a hard surface that will stay even for years. Its sound is so rich in harmonics that you'll even hear them evolve throughout the length of your note. Don't be fooled into thinking it only sounds metallic it also has a very warm sound and can emulate a double bass sound. One thing's for sure, if you're looking for a fretless bass and are ready to enter a world of new sounds and ideas you must try the Delta Metal fingerboard." http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Vigier_Excess_Basses_at_Bassdirect.html | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 457 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dave - Thanks for the link. I haven't seen that video in years (I have a videotape of it "somewhere". I wouldn't have realized this was the metal fingerboard one (ebony can be pretty shiny too), but this bass is in a lot of pictures from that time, so it must have logged some serious travels. David Fung |
