| Author | Message | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2007 |
Just curious as to whether people boost their bass on the bass guitar or on the amp. My Orion needs the bass tone pot up nearly full for most stuff - do others put up the amp bass level and turn guitar bass pot down? I find that the bass tone control on the guitar boosts quite dramatically in the very last bit which I don't need to go to. I have the view that it probably doesn't matter but should you give the max tone signal from the bass guitar before it hits the amp? | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 652 Registered: 9-2008 |
i turn the bass on my Gibson Victory Artist bass up all the way and then have the bass on my GK 1001RB at around the 1 o'clock postion which feeds into my 1x15. i feel like if i boost on my bass instead of my amp it comes through a lot more clear. hope that helped ~Taylor | ||
| artswork99
Moderator Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1396 Registered: 7-2007 |
Agree with the max tone out of the bass as long as you don't overdrive the preamp. Shouldn't really matter but there may be some reasons as the signal may distort in some rigs capacity to handle the input signal. A well balanced organization ;) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2522 Registered: 3-2004 |
All "bass" tone controls aren't created equal. That's a catch-all description for what is usually a shelving-type EQ control that affects frequencies below a certain level. There's no one standard for what the frequency will be. There's also no guarantee that the slope of the curve around the target frequency will be the same from control to control. With a semi-parametric EQ, one can not only set the boost/cut level, but can also set the frequency. A "fully" parametric EQ will also be able to set the slope. If you don't have one of these, your control will work at whatever frequency the designers thought would be appropriate. These parameters matter to the impact of spinning that tone dial. Add to this that the bass control on some amps doesn't behave independently. One example of this is the Fender tone stack found in the Alembic preamps among others. In these configurations, the bass, mid and treble controls all have an affect beyond their primary range. Now, in addition to considering the quality of the components involved, you also need to consider what the tone control you're tweaking is intended to do. The easiest way to decide what to adjust is to try it and, if it sounds good, the settings you made are fine. Personally, for performance versatility, I would prefer to have a setting on my amp that doesn't require a lot of adjustment on the bass. That way, if I need to tweak something during a set, I can probably get what I am looking for without going back to the amp. I wouldn't set my bass control to a default of ten on the bass, because then where do you go if you need a little more? Nigel wouldn't approve unless your Orion bass knob goes to eleven. | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 869 Registered: 11-2005 |
I start with all things flat. Tires, beer, women and e.q.'s. I then make adjustments(on the bass first, then the amp which is what you want to be heard in the p.a. NOT the amp.) for THE room my band is playing in. The Epic/Orion preamp is a stout system on the low end so, I'm thinking since you're boosting as much as you are you would probably want to raise the the gain of the preamp (by way of the internal trim pot) which would give you more headroom and make it to where you would'nt need to boost so much. However be careful not to boost the trim pot too much as you can easily distort the front end of your amp, even with a pad switch engaged! As I stated earlier it's very stout on the low end. Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1488 Registered: 11-2004 |
2400 flat tires...how do you get to the gig? flat beer...do take your own CO2?? flat women...silicone????? LOL As for the other..filters all open and use BOSS ME50B, Zoom B1U and Bass driver pedal as well amp for tones | ||
| 88persuader
Senior Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 438 Registered: 5-2004 |
I always go to the amp 1st to get what I'm looking for with the bass set flat, regardless of bass. Then as bsee said I can then tweak my tone anytime during a performance and don't need to run back to the amp to do it. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1581 Registered: 5-2009 |
There are always variables to my aproach ; nothing is written in stone in my book . Many times with a 2 pickup Bass my instrument settings start with 70% bridge pickup, 30% neck pickup with instrument filters wide open ; all wide open 0 cut , CVQ wide open. Next ; I fit my sound into the "Room" mostly with outboard EQ attenuation. The room has the curves but I try to supply the correct angles to make it right ! LOL ______ | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 583 Registered: 9-2008 |
The real chalenge is to know how to get a "flat" sound from your Amp. Amplifiers use to really colour your tone, even with their tone controls set at zero or middle position (depending if they are passive or active controls). With that in mind, how can you expect to fine tune your tone on Bass? My strategy was to get used to my bass tone on studio's reference monitors, suposely more close to a true (uncolored) reference, and try to match that tone with my Amp first of all. This can help compensate any changes due to placement or gear, while keeping the tone coming out from my Bass "real". Never got any difficult to get a consistent Tone on any venue since then, never got angry with soundman again either. Now I know my tone in PA or Recorder will be the same I am hearing in front of my Amp's cabinet (fairly close at least). By the way, I've never felt the need to real push any extra bass on instrument. Changing PU balance slightly towards front PU usualy do the trick. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 584 Registered: 9-2008 |
Other way to develop a truer tone mind scheme is to get used to hear your Bass "raw" sound on your favourite sound system. You can record it or use any karaoke/auxiliar input, the idea is to hear your tone in the very same gear you are used to hear other bassist's tone (hearing records they made). That way you are ready to try equalizing your Amp's tone to match how your bass tone should really sounds like. And then you finally can fine tune your tone to match any tone you like (easy on Alembic). | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1584 Registered: 5-2009 |
To REALLY know what your response is and what is"FLAT" you need an RTA or "REAL TIME ANALYZER". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Time_Analyzer | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1587 Registered: 5-2009 |
At the last recent AES Convention ( Audio Engineering Society) that I attended In San Francisco last October the nice folks at Gold Line showed me their latest line of new gear /RTA/ software and interfacing and handy tools . Things have really become small and compact since my first experience in school with RTA's in the mid 1970's. It's amazing. http://www.gold-line.com/analyzer.htm Sonic Regards. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 586 Registered: 9-2008 |
With a RTA you can feed your Amp with Pink Noise and knows exactly how Amp, Cabinet and Room can change your Tone (or how they filter all frequencies passing trough it). Important to remember is that it didn't means that once you compensate this with your amp's Tone controls, it will keep always Flat. If you change your position in room (or play in another place, change Cabs and Cables or use an other Amp), you should measure it all over again. But this is the only way to really know exactly what is going on. My tip was just an average man's way to get closer to it even if you don't have any extra gear or knowledge (and regardless what equipement you'll have to use at your Gig). Thanks for info Sonicus! | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2007 |
Wow...what a fantastic lot of replies. And I thought RTA was a Road Traffic Accident! Many thanks ....I will report back. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1588 Registered: 5-2009 |
Mario ,you are welcome . You are correct, there are so many variables in the equation . I think your method or a system of awareness of what the sound is @ a certain given reference benchmark and how it is changing with in the variables of other instruments room/location , validates the methods effectiveness. It can be any method that works for the individual. There can be many ways that work for various individuals. It's Music with a capital " M " ; we express our selves and play a "Movie" for our ears. I love to learn how others do it , Personally I really like to use my intuition and ears, An RTA will tell you what "Flat" is, but then " Flat might not be what one might really care about. I usually end up far from "Flat". Like I wrote before ; MY book is not written in stone. The main thing is to have FUN and sometimes my inner "GEEK" shows up in the process. Sonic Regards____________ | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2527 Registered: 3-2004 |
The only time I have ever used an RTA is in setting up a sound system. When you have a four way or five way setup, an RTA and a 31 band EQ goes a long way toward balancing a system that puts out what goes in with no peaks or holes around crossover points. That's a concern for a home stereo or a large venue PA system, but I don't see it as pertinent to recording or a bass amp. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1589 Registered: 5-2009 |
An RTA is very useful in a recording studio to tune the room. Standing waves and the such can be kept to a minimum through an assortment of methods . An RTA is also useful in analog to digital restoration , etc ... ... | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1604 Registered: 9-2002 |
It's an endless crapshoot when it comes to bass tone. First, there's the lucky guys who have one setting, it sounds great wherever they play, no problem. They are lucky beyond words. Me, I hear everything. I've been around this block so many times the city made me pull over so they could re-pave and re-stripe the street. First, my ears are different every day. So it never sounds the same. Then, the settings I finally hammered into place today WILL sound like hell tomorrow. These strings went dead since yesterday??? When I gigged, every room sounded different. The band sounded different. I sounded different. So I chased it and chased it. Where's the Tylenol? I tried really high-tech rigs. They sounded high tech, but thin. I tried old school stuff. They sounded lumpy. I worked with a PA company. We'd shoot the room with the RTA to get a baseline, and it was horrible. Flat, beautiful on the scope, and as unmusical as could be. Could NOT imagine the horror show of shooting an SVT or SWR cab. The only thing I never did, as I just never worked up the courage, was to try an old subtraction-only EQ from the old days. But, I've never tried a SuperFilter, who knows? All I can tell you is EQ would get away from me fast, and generally the less I used the better. But obviously, what the hell do I know. I'm getting ANOTHER headache thinking about it. J o e y | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1492 Registered: 11-2004 |
Maybe we are all just too damn fussy, I mean, you never hear a keyboard player searching for the elusive tone 'cos he has so many to choose from(synth players of course) I know one guy and it doesn't matter if he plays a Gibson or Fender or some cheap crappy catalogue guitar..he still sounds like BB King for gods sake..can anyone explain that?? | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1593 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did Jaco say , it's in my hands ? | ||
| bassman4
Junior Username: bassman4 Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2009 |
I gotten some of the highest compliments from folks whose "ear" I respect...on days when I felt that I was playin' like "crap"...go figure... Start flat, and then adjust...and then try your best to work back towards "flat"...as long as it sounds "warm"... | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2007 |
I started the thread - thanks for all the comments. I found that adjusting the amp for tone and leaving the bass guitar flat works best - giving plenty of scope for adjustment on the guitar whilst playing. After all these years(45) of playing, I often question the way I do things so it is very good to share. Much appreciated. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10087 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey wrote: "First, my ears are different every day. So it never sounds the same. Then, the settings I finally hammered into place today WILL sound like hell tomorrow." That's me every day practicing. My ears do indeed seem different every day; and it never does sound the same. So I'll tweak for a while til I'm really enjoying the tone; and then I turn the rig on the next day, and have to start all over again. (Well maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be; but it does seem to be an everyday occurrence.) | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2007 |
I had a repair done on one of my amps last week and the bass playing chap who repaired it (a top man at the well respected manufacturer) said the volume should be high on the bass guitar as should the bass tone control before anything hits the amp. This is the opposite of what I had decided February 11 !! So the last post is quite right in that things (especially opinions) change from day to day - I guess it keeps us thinking (if not quite sane!) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1632 Registered: 5-2009 |
That is correct , this was only that chaps personal opinion . Did he ask you if you played an active or passive bass? The problem that I see with having the volume all the way up on the bass is that it limits your adjustment from the instrument and you will be running back to your amp again should you need more volume . I like 3/4 total volume on the instrument with room for 1/4 more. Here we go again _ MY opinion _ LOL ___ (Message edited by sonicus on February 23, 2011) | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 36 Registered: 7-2007 |
Yes - he asked and I said active. I like your 3/4 idea. | ||
| 5sicks
Junior Username: 5sicks Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2010 |
"If it sounds good, it is good"--Famous man | ||
| rjmsteel
Intermediate Member Username: rjmsteel Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2008 |
Run my Elan electronics all the way open. Filter to 6K and Q switch off. Thats when the SuperFilter kicks in. All the tonal adjustments are there and I can SEE where my settings are going in any room. I just leave the settings on my amp head alone and tweak my tone from the Superfilter. I surely must admit I agree with Joey and Dave on the daily- never sounds the same, or as dialed in like it was the day before "phenomenon" but with the SF it appears to make it easier to dial in that room/on that day and have a general starting point from settings I know I can work from and pretty quickly have a working tone in most any room. Last weekend we did a local cable shoot in one of their studios and my rig was literally backed into the corner - along with heavy drapery and setup off to the side of and slightly behind the drum kit. The low end was...well...thunderous: tweaked the low-pass side (channel A of the SF) to about 500hz with the "Q" to around three and quickly was able to cut through. Leaving the Hi-pass, (channel B run in series from channel A), side settings alone. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 604 Registered: 9-2008 |
5sicks quoted: "If it sounds good, it is good" But you have to keep in mind that something can sound good against a particular room acoustics, as cuting off some lows and turning up some highs in a dark sounding room. But this doesn't means it will record good or will still sound good in an other acoustic enviroment. That's why Sonicus and me where chating about RTAs and some ways to recognize and learn on how a specific Cabinet, Amp and Room may sounds like (and interact each other). | ||
| murray
Junior Username: murray Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2007 |
Guess what? - just decided to go back to what I have been doing..... decent settings on amp with sensible boost on bass guitar but allowing headroom for adjustment. Basically, using these old, old ears and using the knobs to turn for the sound on the night. No point having controls if you don't use them. Very useful comments from everyone. I would summarise that one well-meant settings plan won't work every night and there is no shame in tweaking (as long as it doesn't get in the way of playing). Glynn |
