| Author | Message | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hi everyone, it's been a while since I've been around. But I've been playing my Alembic lots. The question is where do you put your thumb? Over the years I've had basses that had good places to put my thumb (my Fender P was probably the best) and others that didn't. I have an acoustic with no good place except the end of the fingerboard. I like to be able to move my thumb around to get different sounds. On my MK I don't find myself doing that much because there's really only one good place to put it, the pickup toward the fingerboard. It might be nice to have a wooden bar mounted on the bass parallel to the strings, maybe 5 inches long, running between the fingerboard and the bridge pickup so you could move around more. On a side note, there was something Jaco said that I thought was really funny, when asked about plucking the strings in different places. The interviewer was trying to get Jaco to talk about all the different sounds he could get from the Fender by moving up and down the string. All Jaco said was that he plucked closer to the bridge when he wanted to play fast... | ||
| rogertvr
Advanced Member Username: rogertvr Post Number: 225 Registered: 1-2003 |
Hmmmmmm - interesting question this one. Whenever I've played a Fender P I've never found anywhere comfortable to put my thumb. Jazz basses are a different story but before The Dragon's Wing, I pretty much played my 4001 all the time. I've carried over my thumb position from that - so it's over the neck pick-up for me. I am happy to play in other positions but that's my favourite. Rog | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 409 Registered: 11-2003 |
I generally use the neck pick up with occasionally using the bridge pick up. That's when playing the E string. As I move up the strings my thumb follows. For example when playing the A string my thumb is on the E. When playing the D, on the A, etc. Sam | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2004 |
Rog - my '76 P bass has a thumb rest between the fingerboard and the neck (original) pickup. Can't remember if I added it or it was original. I use it or the neck pickup which does have a pretty sharp corner though, always hurts my thumb. Right now is the first time I ever thought of using a file to round off the corner, but I've only had it for 28 years... Sam - That's what Jaco said was the best method. Helps lots with damping strings too. Only wish I'd been told to do that 30 years ago. Hard to change old habits. SoM | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1304 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'm following the "Sam" way but there are moments I play with ...oh ....huh ...a "floating" thumb?? I mean: not rested. Normally I play between neck and bridge PU but alway more to the bruidge in my standard playing. When I step in those slow "Stormy monday" blues classica I move more to the neck. After my tone is made for the environment we play (S2 + SF-2) the change of "plucking area" is the only tonal variation I do. Paul the bad one | ||
| dadabass2001
Intermediate Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 126 Registered: 6-2002 |
I vary from over the neck (around 20th fret) for big round tone, to just in front of the bridge pickup. I sometimes pluck arpeggiated chords with thumb, 2, 3. Mike (Message edited by dadabass2001 on April 25, 2004) | ||
| jet_powers
Intermediate Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 161 Registered: 2-2003 |
Not that this helps much.... but when I thought about it I realized I use all the methods described here, though I most often tend to "float" like Paul describes. When using my Rogue 5 I tend to rest my thumb on the B string to damp it. JP | ||
| mint_bass
Intermediate Member Username: mint_bass Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2004 |
i like to be over the neck pickup normally but strum chords and play finerpicking with thumb and other 3 fingers just infront of the neck and to play arpeggiated chords towards the bridge pick up i move around a lot but i mostly stay ontop of the neck pickup i think that the alembic pick up design really helps to make the pick up aperfect a thumb rest | ||
| lowlife
Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003 |
I too rest my thumb on the pickups (neck & bridge), but my fear is that I'm pressing way too hard with my thumb and eventually the pickup cover will be damaged. For me, it would be nice to be able to purchase a small block of the same brass that is used on the tail piece; smoothed & rounded and finished the same; with one hold bored. I'd just screw it right into place and not worry about my pickups anymore. Some might say that this is not the way that the bass was made, but for me, I bought my Alembics to play, and I have to comfortable. Ellery (Lowlife) (Message edited by lowlife on April 26, 2004) | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 410 Registered: 11-2003 |
My pickups seem pretty secure. Another thing I like about my Alembic is that the hole routed for the pickup is slightly larger than the top of the pickup. I can rest my thumb there without rubbing the finish on the body. My other bass is flush and susceptible to wearing into the finish. Sam | ||
| alembic76407
Advanced Member Username: alembic76407 Post Number: 283 Registered: 5-2002 |
On the top of the Pick, sorry that was to easy, I'm starting to sound like Brother Paul David T(TLO) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1307 Registered: 9-2002 |
haaaaaaaaaaa-ha-ha ... a good one! | ||
| adriaan
Advanced Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 207 Registered: 6-2002 |
Me being a Dutchman, it will have to be in the dyke. (This is silly. We can't have that! Oops, sorry, Monty Python reference on the loose in the wrong thread. #13, the larch. Nudge nudge, wink wink.) But anyroads, the thumb goes onto the end of the fingerboard on the fretless, the same on the fretted but there it will often move to the neck pickup. | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2003 |
My thumb goes wherever it's needed. It doesn't have a specific resting place. Usually the fingers muting other strings keep my hand in position, so I have no need for a thumb rest or specific pickup placement because one or more of the strings perform that function unless I'm flailing, in which case I'm flailing... John | ||
| jazzyvee
Intermediate Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 107 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm with you on that one John, i never really think too much about where it is. It ends up wherever it's needed. I did actually try to notice where it was at reahearsal yesterday and sometimes it is in front of the strings resting against the E or A string to stop ringing or underneath the strings damping from the underside. No idea how that developed LOL When I'm getting a big deep sound playing over the fingerboard my thumb does rest on the top edge of the neck. It's interesting to just notice where you move your hands to make subtle changes in tone without thinking about it. | ||
| senmen
Advanced Member Username: senmen Post Number: 275 Registered: 7-2003 |
Who needs to rest his thumb somewhere? :-) Mainly doing typewriter style the thumb is free around as the four fingers tap the strings at the end of the fingerboard. They have to be free to be able also to tap chords so therefore no thumb rest is needed nor possible.... Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2004 |
Interesting, I guess I should spend some time trying to stop using my thumb as a crutch ;-) My habit of resting my thumb on the fingerboard or bridge probably came from playing cello and upright bass. Understandably, resting it on the lowest string that's not being played is a great way to help keep unused strings damped. Now putting it under the strings? I think I'll stay away from that, it might get stuck! I love all the feedback on this though. But Jazzyvee, regarding looking at your hand, the first time I looked at my left hand while playing cello I was really amazed. It was doing all kinds of things that I hadn't been aware of. Especially with damping strings. It was like someone else's hand ;P In any case maybe the lesson here is that, just like the left hand, let your thumb be free! Don't lock it down, let it float and you will be more relaxed and fluid in your playing. SoM | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 303 Registered: 7-2002 |
After so many years of anchoring my thumb in one position on the bass. I had a rude awakening when I went to BIT. That was the first thing my teacher tried to break me of. It was impossible!!! And, yes Paul, they did actaully call it a "floating thumb technique" But, when I switched over to 5 string, it was necessary. The spacing was too much to try to anchor my thumb. Every now and then I will rest my thumb on the B string which allow me to play my 5 like it was a 4 string. I think whatever technique helps you play best is the proper technique, as long as it dosn't develop into something thats going to injure you. There are techniques that will cause an injury, but in this case anchoring or not anchoring really won't hurt you. My favorite quote is from Jeff Berlin who basically says, there is no need to practice techinque, technique is something that will develop as your need to play music develops. In other words, musical knowledge is the mother of technique. Just my two cents!!! Dino (bptfo) | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 417 Registered: 11-2003 |
Going to BIT was probably a priceless experience. Attending Jeff Berlin's school in Clearwater is one of my goals. That's still way down the road but hopefully not in the too distant future. I'm not getting younger. Sam | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Sam, Yeah BIT was a life changing experience. I went there for the one year certificate and then taught there for 6 years after I graduated. I still miss it from time to time being back here in Boston now. Jeff's school is very small but I HIGHLY recommend it to anyone willing to learn music. Jeff can be very controversial in some of his opinions on how music should be taught and learned. I do have to agree with him though on a lot of issues regarding music education today. Peace, Dino | ||
| adriaan
Advanced Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2002 |
Come to think of it, I'm sure the floating thumb thing happens to me all the time. Some things you just don't know that you're doing them, and when questioned you try to answer in the same terms - and so my answer was about where I put my thumb when I decide to put it in any place in particular. (At least with regards to the serious part of my answer.) When I picture myself playing, I'm sure my right hand is traveling in all conceivable directions. The fingers often line up with the neck, rather than across the strings. The palm of my hand can come close to the strings, or go way up to use a little more downward force - probably a distant cousin of the typewriter technique. Then again I may be exaggerating the whole thing in my mind. Anyway, I don't play as much as I'd like to, and so fatigue is not an issue when it comes to choosing playing techniques. Let's see what happens if I start playing more often - I could of course try spending less time here ... (Message edited by Adriaan on April 29, 2004) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1311 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi my greek-american-long-lost-thought-brother-Dino ...how are you ...I think I will call you soon for a good "uncle" talk. Yep ...my friend and first bass-teacher Koen Leeman was Alex's Sklarevsky's roommate for a year at BIT. He explained to me it was ...well ...oh ...huh ...life a life changing experience. About the thumb thing. Yep ...I "float" and for a unknown reason the "dampening" of strings happens with my LEFT hand. If I study pictures of myself playing I see my left hand more or less "flattened" on the fingerboard and spreaded wide. It has a "reach" reason but also a "dampening" reason. Paul the bad one | ||
| bob
Advanced Member Username: bob Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2002 |
This is a fascinating disucssion. I guess most of the slappers must have just seen the title of the thread and shrugged it off as, 'to each his own', otherwise by now we would have seem a comment like 'my thumb never rests' <groan...> jazzy - I'm with you on this, better to just let the fingers do what they want, because they're way smarter than I am. Sometime last year (before my Alembic arrived) I noticed one evening that the little finger on my right hand was resting over the bridge saddle of the B string. I thought, "that's weird", just ignored it and went on playing. But then I noticed it again a couple nights later, and became more curious about why it was doing that. So I experimented a little on the B, with my little finger in various positions, and it turned out that it was doing a very subtle damping - somewhat like a compressor, perhaps. If it wasn't there, the B was a little soft and flabby sounding in comparison to the rest of the strings. But with a very light touch - and in a very precise location, within a range of less than 1/16 of an inch - it tightened up the tone very nicely. At some later point, I noticed it would occasionally sneak itself in between the body and the string, sort of like what you described for your thumb. Not really pressed in there, but positioned just so that on a large excursion, it would damp the string a little, but with more gentle playing it wouldn't be in contact. It's just amazing to me that 'my finger' figured this out on its own, with no conscious thought whatsoever. Getting back to the thumb, it seems to me people are talking about at least two or three different kinds of 'floating', and it's worth being clear about that. One case is when you want to move your plucking position up or down along the length of the strings, to get a different sound. Several people here mention this, though most of them are still looking for places to rest their thumb as they shift this way (end of the fingerboard, neck pickup, etc.) Another standard case is when playing across the strings, where one suggested approach is to always rest the thumb one string above the one you are playing. That's useful, but I'm just not good enough to reposition my thumb that frequently... And assuming your wrist or arm is somehow braced against the body, I don't understand why you need to also brace your thumb - but that's just me, and whatever works for you is fine. I kind of think of these first two cases as drifting or shifting, more than 'floating'. In my case, my right thumb is never braced anywhere. It just sort of hangs in a relaxed postion, more or less as it would if my hand were hanging down by my side, and laying perpendicular across the strings. But it stays in light contact with the fatter strings, and with my fingers angled back towards the bridge about 30 degrees, it always seems to be resting lightly on the strings below where I'm playing. Meanwhile, my left is naturally damping any strings above the one I'm playing, so both ends are covered - without thinking about it. Sometimes the thumb decides all by itself whether to let a lower string sound a bit longer, or damp out immediately, or maybe do a little primitive percussive thing. All this is fine by me. One of the great things about my Alembic is that the B is so solid that my little finger is free to explore new territory - it's not really plucking yet, but my third finger has become a lot more active, and I think the pinky is doing some new stuff sometimes (but I'm trying not to pay attention to it). -Bob | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1313 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Bob ...an amazing story about your pinky. There are moments I have that problem with my whole hands they are doing things not intentionally and not controlled by me. For instance in the neighborhood of a glass of beer or standing aside a beautifull woman ...oh ...huh ...in that last case I DO get the beating of which I always aske ...WHY????? LOL Paul the bad one | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 420 Registered: 11-2003 |
My fingers sometimes take a mind of their own when driving. Especially the first two, or sometimes just the one in the middle. About moving my thumb it's more for better reach than bracing it. I've found in my case by letting my thumb wander it gets in the way. Then again since this thread I've been paying more attention to what the ol' digits are up to. When I focus on where everyone is I get messed up. I guess the bottom line is play have fun and what happens happens. Sam | ||
| 811952
Intermediate Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think you guys have convinced me to videotape my right hand while I play something and see what I'm actually doing with it... John | ||
| son_of_magni
Junior Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2004 |
Bob, great post! Exactly what I was thinking. There is a big difference between moving your thumb around to different locations and 'floating' thumb. Floating implies to me that it's not pressed against anything solid. And thank you for the detailed description of your thumb technique. It sounds like a near ideal method. The only thing that I don't like is the idea that I would have to maintain my hand position (reference actually) by bracing my wrist or arm against the body, which I definately do not do. That reference is what I accomplish by placing my thumb on the fingerboard or pickup. Damn, if only I had two thumbs on my right hand! Your story about the pinky is also interesting. Similar to what I saw when I looked at my left hand when playing cello. On bass I can't play if I look at my right hand, especially in a mirror. It just gets me confused. John's idea of making a video would be fun, and we could all post the results! | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 500 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bob; you said "I don't understand why you need to also brace your thumb". I don't know anything about anatomy and very, very little about physics, but I've examined this issue in my playing in the past and it does appear to me that anchoring the thumb makes power and speed more readily available for the fingers. If someone who has always anchored the thumb plays a fast aggressive live and then trys the same line without anchoring the thumb, they may find the attack much less precise. I think the word "fulcrum" applies here; and perhaps Newton's Third Law of Motion. I have a video of John Patitucci. He does not anchor his thumb. His technique is similar to yours in that his thumb follows his fingers, muting the strings above those that the fingers are striking. And he does it with no apparent loss of speed or precision. From time to time I practice this technique some, especially on six string; and I also from time to time practice the technique of anchoring on strings rather than pickups, again especially with the six string. But at this point, when I'm digging in for power and speed, I still anchor on the pickup. But I do constantly work on my technique; so perhaps someday my thumb use will evolve. | ||
| flaxattack
Junior Username: flaxattack Post Number: 28 Registered: 4-2004 |
only been playing mine three days- orion 5 and have short stubby nubby fingers- god was not fair to me! but so far- and i use my fingers instead of a pick 1st- my neck pick up has enough room between the pickup and the body that my thumb fits very comfortably in there the pick up itself is only bout an eigth inch above the body so its a real comfy position and i am just to the right if the pick up from that same spot 2- if i want a bright sound i swing my hand twds the bridge pickup-or rest on the bridge p.u since it sits almost 3/4 of an inch over the body i also notice the sound is a bit louder and tad less bassy 3- i can also sit on the neck at the 24th fret when i want a warm less trebly tone pveral the best spot i found is about 1 inch south of the neck pick up- best overall tone and volume and to be totally weird- i fingerpick in front the bridge pickup using thumb,1st,2nd and 3rd stubs and depending on the tune fingerpcik with just thumb and 1st doe real fast repeating one of these days i might try a pick....but there for guitarists or bass players that couldnt vut it as guitarists... haha | ||
| wideload
Junior Username: wideload Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2003 |
I paid close attention to my technique at rehearsal last night, and my thumb never left the back of the neck. Oh... and the other one was mostly planted on the block of ebony between my pickups, sometimes anchoring on the pickups themselves as I move fore and aft. Funny, my thumbs were the only fingers that did the right thing on every song! Flax- I too have Swiss Milker hands, making some of the moves I see impossible to replicate. My son has massive mitts, and can stretch first fret to sixth. But I am so very much more tasteful than he...  Larry | ||
| 88persuader
Junior Username: 88persuader Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hi ... I'm new to this group but it's an interesting thread so i thought i'd put in my two cents. In regards to finger plucking positioning I use to always brace my thumb on the pickup of what ever bass I played. If i wasn't braced I'd lose my balance and get sloppy. Well once I started playing 5 and 6 string basses, like others in this group I found myself using the B string as a thumb rest. Since I've been an Alembic owner I've made some other changes. 1st I started using heavy gage strings because I wanted to develope my popping slapping style and when i put the action low I found myself hitting the string against the neck when i didn't want to and I would sound sloopy. The heavy gage strings help me get this under control. Now because I took myself out of my comfort zone (playing multi string basses & slapping popping) I find my thumb doesn't rest on anything in paticular anymore. Generally it kind of goes where ever it wants without thinking about it. Sometimes on the B or E string, sometimes a pickup, sometimes the actual neck of the guitar (when I finger pluck the strings directly over the neck) sometimes it just rest against the body. And of course when slapping & popping it never rests! ...lol Sorry couldn't resist saying that! I sat in with a friend's band a few weeks ago and he had a Rick 4001. I felt very uncomfortable with this bass and had to play with my thumb actually not resting on anything ... suspended in air. It wasn't the most comfortable situation to be in but it was nice to know that WHERE the resting spot was or wasn't didn't stop me from doing the job. I was still able to play the 4 or 5 tunes I did with his band because i wasn't married to one "resting spot." So i guess my opinion is to try ALL positions you can think of. You never know when you'll be in a situation where you'll be forced out of your comfort zone while playing some strange bass. Not to mention the different tones you can bring out of your bass in different positions and with different striking/plucking methods. That's my two cents! ;-) Ray | ||
| bigideas
Junior Username: bigideas Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2004 |
i currently play a fretless jazz bass (i don't like it, i don't want it, but its all i've got). the action is crazy high due to fender putting the heaviest flatwounds they had on it, and that warping the neck. now i've put nylons on it. this means i've had to be creative (and playing a well setup bass has become a rare relief.) like ray my thumb goes everywhere: front pickup, bridge pickup, side of neck at joint, side of neck at twelvth fret. i also use my thumb to slap (popping is very hard on this bass), so sometimes i'm just out there. finally, i've started trying a hooked finger approach. sortuv like popping, but i'm just plucking the string that way (i've heard that jamerson did something like this). i haven't figured out where to put my thumb for that one yet. so i'm just everywhere. matt |
