| Author | Message | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3230 Registered: 6-2000 |
Hi Alan, Chip finished the mock-up of the body shape:   It's amazing what you can do with carpet tape. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, I trust that isn't my neck there - I wanted the cone headstock as on John's basses, not the V shaped. After reviewing photos of John's basses, I still think it's too thick at the "waist" if you will, e.g., where the upper and lower body halves pinch together in the middle of the body, particularly on the lower horn. The cutaway on the lower horn also needs to be deeper from what I can tell as well - on the picture I sent it appears to be almost even with the end of the truss rod. The curve upward from the middle of the upper half to the upper horn also appears to have less of an upward angle in the picture I sent as opposed to the mock up. In other words, it's a bit more parallel to the ground as it were if we were to hold the instrument parallel to it. The lower horn appears to be too thick across, and shorter than on the picture I sent as well. From what I can tell the end of the lower horn is almost equal the middle of the 17th fret. Overall, not a bad first attempt at all. Chip did very well indeed. Let's go ahead and try making those changes and see what we come up with. I must say, seeing a FTC thread for my bass has me stoked! Thanks, Alan | ||
| petre
New Username: petre Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2006 |
since i have tons of free time on my hands [while at home on a sunday afternoon], i made an animated gif showing [first and darkest] the original spider [from thewho.net] with the new one superimposed. i drew lines up the center of the neck laminates and across the bottom of the fingerboards, and scaled the new body to the width of the fingerboard of the original. this is for entertainment purposes only. <img> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y121/ventrata/animatedspi.gif | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2003 |
Peter, Thanks so much. That really helps put the two in perspective and assists greatly in getting the body shape right. Mica, Please take a look at what Petre's done. It pretty much confirms what I stated in my original response to the pictures. Thanks, Alan | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3307 Registered: 6-2000 |
Here's round II:  Overlay of round II over original body reveals there's a touch more "massaging" to do on the shape, but it's closer than the first one:  Round III should be conclusive. More to come soon. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, Looks better. I think we'd agree we've got a ways to go, but this is a step in the right direction to be sure. Can't wait to see Round III! Thanks, Alan | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1152 Registered: 3-2004 |
If you're planning to "fix: the electronics layout, you may need to leave a little more wood in that area. I suspect at least part of the reason it ended up so cramped was a lack of space in that quadrant. I doubt Alembic would have designed it that way on purpose... -bob | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 362 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bob, We'll see how it goes, I guess. It's not something we have to decide on at the moment, but getting the body shape right is very important to me. It's why I went with this custom in the first place - get it as close as possible to the original. I am willing to make some changes as I'm the one playing the instrument, but not so much that I lose the original intent of the project. I really like the original's body shape - it is much "sleeker" than my Spyder. Looks to me like we'll be able to make it a reality. Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it. Alan | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1153 Registered: 3-2004 |
Alan- Just pointing out that there may need to be a trade-off decision there. Once the wood is gone, it can't be added back, so best to consider it before further body slimming occurs. I love playing Exploiters, they balance so well. I will be watching this one shape up, good luck with it! -bob | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 363 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bob, Roger, got it. This is why we went the mock up route - we have the opportunity to play with it a bit before we actually go to cutting the wood for the actual bass. One of the things Susan told me when we discussed this instrument was that for some reason, they didn't keep the template for this bass, though they now do such things. Additionally, the Spyders were designed to have a body shape that would appeal to a wide audience of potential players. John's basses were made to his specs, and this bodyshape is no different. Same goes for the neck, etc. - his fingerboards, for example, were completely flat. Anyway, If we don't get it right, we can go back to square one with a Spyder body shape and start over. This is what I think Chip did with the first iteration - as I own a Spyder, what he did looked like my bass. Now that he's cut it down somewhat, it is much closer to what I've got envisioned. Again, I'm not averse to making changes I feel will make it more playable for me. Now, if it were the actual wood for the bass, then we might have a problem. Luckily, in this case, it's only the mock up, so I think we're good here. Anyway, from what I can tell things are moving along nicely. Can't wait to see round III! Thanks, Alan | ||
| 2400wattman
Intermediate Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 187 Registered: 11-2005 |
Alan, if John's fretboards were flat, does that mean that his strings were all the same heighth? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3388 Registered: 6-2000 |
Chip has been working on this body a bunch. Here is the latest:  To my eyes, we are almost there. The upper bump (I can't call it a horn) needs to be rounded slightly. The lower horn needs to be a scoonch longer and ever so slightly more pointy. Keep in mind when comparing the solid Mahogany body to the finsihed bass on the right to follow the Mahogany on the finished bass for comparison. It's easy to be distracted by the top laminate being smaller, so everything looks much bigger in mock up than it does when finished. If you agree with me about the little issues, we will probably just start building the body for your bass with those very slight changes to the template, rather than making another mock up. You'll let me know. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 370 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, I agree that the "upper bump" needs to be rounded and smoothed at the waist and at the top of the bump before it goes down into where it meets the neck. It also needs to be a bit more parallel to the neck, if you know what I mean. The angle on the "upper bump" going towards the neck appears a bit too steep to me. And I agree on the lower horn - it does indeed need to be more "pointy." I also think that on the bottom of the bass, the body needs to be more rounded at the points (the upper rear of the bass, and the lower rear of the bass near the controls). Might be a photo-ism that I can't see, but that's what I think it needs. Please extend my sincere thanks to Chip - he's doing a fantastic job. But then again, this is Alembic after all - of course he's doing a great job! ;-) Also, wanted to make sure that we all know that I wanted a walnut body, with Bird's Eye maple for the top (and back). I'm considering the idea of walnut lams for the neck, maybe ebony (and yes, I know that will increase the price; I'll work this with Beaver F as needed), but I haven't made a definitive decision yet. As we haven't begun building the instrument yet, we have a bit of time. Let me know if this is untenable for you guys, and whether you need a decision now. I'll be home fairly soon, and I plan a trip to Santa Rosa sometime in August. I can't wait to finally visit and see my bass in progress in person! Thanks for the update, Alan | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4026 Registered: 5-2002 |
Alan; it's great to hear that you will be coming home soon!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3440 Registered: 6-2000 |
We're looking forward to seeing you, Alan. Chip finished the latest template. I've placed it over the old mock-up:  Mom and I inspected this very closely, and feel it's just right, including a slight correction here:  today's template over the picture of JE bass. Note how the template is slightly larger here. We don't feel the carving on the original you are comparing it too was careful. There are some weird angles and abrupt changes there, and it doesn't even go around the inlay evenly. What we're thinking is to proceed with the build on this template. This would give you the option of after seeing it with the laminates and roundover, having Peter carve it down more if you felt it needed it. Sound like a plan? | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 373 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, Thanks for taking the time to get this body style right - I know it must be a lot of work and painstaking. My take is that the angle of the upper horn on the left hand side of the bass, as you look at it, needs to be slightly more acute, upward every so slightly - it looks a bit too parallel to the fingerboard/neck to me. Also, I think the rounding where the upper horn merges into the rear horn on the left side of the bass could be a bit "softer;" it appears to angle back up more steeply than on the picture of JE's bass. Is it possible to fix those two things? If we can, I think we're there. I'm also thinking that maybe the angle at the picture was taken is affecting my judgment, but I'll defer to you guys since you took the picture. If you want to wait til I visit to make the final changes to the template, that's cool. I'd rather get it just as we want it rather than move too quickly and not get it there. Let me know what you think. We're almost there, and I'm really pumped. Thank everyone at the Mothership for the great work they're doing for me. Best regards, Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1484 Registered: 7-2004 |
Alan: This looks to be shaping up as a very cool project. Great news that you'll soon be back so that you can make the trip to Santa Rosa. I'm sure you and your's are very excited. Best wishes for a safe and uneventful journey (at least until you hit the states, then enjoy all the events you want!) Bill, tgo | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 374 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bill, Thanks. It will be great to be home again with my wife ... and my Alembics! Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1490 Registered: 7-2004 |
Alan: In that order? (You may not want to, and probably shouldn't, answer that)! LMAO Bill, tgo | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 375 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bill, Yes, in that order. That is, if I want to stay married! Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1491 Registered: 7-2004 |
Amen, brother! Bill, tgo | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, Any movement on my bass? If not, that's cool. Just curious. Alan | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3652 Registered: 6-2000 |
The calender in assembly is mostly dedicated to you for next week, Alan. I'll get you lots of good progress shots so you can see all the neat details. | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica, Thanks. Can't wait to see it. Don't feel like you have to dedicate all your time to me .. I've been to the Mothership and know you have lots of folks you have to attend to. I also know you guys are busier than a one-armed paper hanger ... Can't wait to see my bass as it progresses. Say hi to your Mom, Dad, and Val for me ... Best regards, Alan | ||
| ox_junior
Advanced Member Username: ox_junior Post Number: 348 Registered: 3-2004 |
Isn't there a song about a one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple paper hanger?  | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1698 Registered: 7-2004 |
I believe so - wore short shorts and quite friendly, as I recall. Bill, tgo | ||
| dtrice
New Username: dtrice Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hi, I am new to Alembic. I am currently looking at having an Exploiter built. I really like the way his body shape has been altered to more exactly replicate JE's personal bass. Would it be possible to save this new shape's dimensions in order to build another one? | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 411 Registered: 11-2003 |
Daniel, I see no reason that the craftsmen and women at Alembic can't do the same for you. I was out there in August, and Chip had the templates in hand; as my bass is the first attempt at recreating that particular body shape, I would think that the good people in Santa Rosa will hold on to it like they do their other shapes. Susan told me that she had quoted many Entwistle style basses, but none had actually gone on to make a custom order. To my knowledge, mine will be the closest thing one can get to John's original basses without actually buying one (which would be hideously expensive). Alan | ||
| mtnst8
Junior Username: mtnst8 Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2006 |
I'm curious how the bodies would have changed from JE's. According to the Featured Custom page (June 2003) for the Spyder basses, "We used the same templates for the body and peghead shapes as we used on John's basses." Clearly though the one you're having built differs from that and more closely reflects JE's. What would explain the difference? Brad | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2003 |
Brad, When I initially began the process of ordering a custom, I had a wonderful conversation with Susan about this. Apparently, back in the day, they did not save all their templates (though they do now). This was the case with John Entwistle's Spyders. I own a Spyder, but I wanted one like his, or as close to it as I could get. One look at a picture of his basses and you can see that the Spyder Limited Editions and those he played have different body shapes. I can't explain why the Featured Custom page states what it does, but I do know that the great people in Santa Rosa did the Photo Shopping necessary to get the body right. To wit, the upper horn meets the neck further up, the cutaway is a bit deeper, and the bass itself is thinner at the "waist," if you will. Susan told me each bass they made for John was slightly different, so if there is variation in the body shape, this might also be a reason for it. I do know, for example, that John's V head Exploiter had the long tailpieces that are similar to those on my Spyder; the one's on others were much shorter (I'm having these recreated for my bass as I'm cramming a bunch of Series II electronics into the body; I need all the room I can get!). I'm only speculating here, but I'm sure Alembic had good reasons for any changes made. I'm sure a phone call to Susan or Mica would clear it up if you're so inclined. Alan |
