| Author | Message | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hellooo, Mica! Wow, she's really coming along and lookin' Schwueeet! Have you had a chance to come up with anything for the control layout? I don't know about you, but it gives me a headache trying to think how I want all that stuff layed out, if I'd like it that way, or this way, or another way, or if it would all fit, etc. =[ I'll see what you come up with. You're the expert and have the experience at stuff like that. Just keep me posted as to what ya come up with, and we'll take it from there! Thanks for all your help, Have a great day, Mike =] | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5114 Registered: 6-2000 |
Here's what I've come up with:  I don't think there are many other options for getting all those controls in there, so I hope you like this one. This is just a rough layout, if you approve it, the actual drilling will be measured out for symmetry. | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hello, Mica! I really like it, but what about the master Volume control and LED switch=/? Would that REALLY be pushing the envelope? I don't know if i see a place for it in there. Maybe a side-mounted jack would help?? I've been mulling over this for a while,and I'm baffled. Everything looks well-placed and convenient, except for the lack of the master vol. control, and any ideas on the LED switch? Am I expecting to put too much metal on too little wood =)? I would like to have the Master volume, but maybe it's not absolutely necassary. I don't know. What do you think? See if ya can come up with something, I'll continue to rack my little pea-brain, and we'll come up with sumpin! TTY soon, have a great friday, Mike =] | ||
| briant
Intermediate Member Username: briant Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey Mike, Usually when you've got a pickup selector and individual volume controls for each pickup you don't have a master volume. It sort of becomes overkill at that point but I *can* see certain times where you'd still want to have it. I'm guessing there simply isn't going to be enough room in there to add anything else!! That's a lot of stuff. :-) | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2006 |
Yes, Briant, is is somewhat perplexing. A veritable forest of knobs and switches; master volume neck volume neck filter neck Q (3 position) (0+4+8dB) bridge volume bridge filter bridge Q (3 position) pickup selector switch mono stereo switch LED on/off switch overall bass control (like on an Orion) overall treble control (like on on Orion) So 7 knobs, 4 mini toggle switches, 1 rotary switch in all. I've been researching ideas, and I believe it might be possible. Look at Custom Series II basses, notably "Dragon Fly", "Raging Bass", "Hot Lava", Paul's Gorgeous "Mele Aloha", and most notably, my bass's Older brother, the Outstanding "Thunder and Lightning". These wonderful instruments all have 10 or 11 controls, and most of them have 3 rotary switches, where mine only has 1 with 2 toggles for the Q's. Also, Mine being a "Ghetto Series .05", I have no 5-pin connector. Unless the Anniversary cavity is smaller than Series or routed differently, or the Bass/Treble module takes too much interior room,I'm hoping we can come up with a solution that is logical AND attractive. I would prefer to keep the Master Volume. I play live, and it is much better for fade-outs and adjusting stage volume without screwing up my individual neck volumes that I have found my "sound" with. That is also why I chose the Anniversary Electronics. Just more control. (Am I just a control freak=[!)I would also prefer not to have anything on the upper or lower bout if it can be avoided. Anyhoo, Mica is a wizard at these things, and I'm sure between her knowledge and experience and my minute collection of Grey Matter we can resolve this little issue! Thanks for your input, Brian, Stay tuned!! Have fun, Mike, tho =] (Message edited by 5stringho on February 08, 2008) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5121 Registered: 6-2000 |
Side jacks take up more room, so that's right out. The Anniversary cavity is the same size as the Series I/II cavity, but the Series I/II has a separate battery compartment, where your bass doesn't. The bass and treble controls were an add-on, and frankly, I don't think it's possible to add everything in the available space with any degree of comfort. So we've got to talk options. One option is to convert back to Signature electronics and then you'd have a volume and blend instead of 2 volume controls illustrated. You'd lose stereo too, so that's where the LED switch could live. You could also kill the idea of the added bass and treble controls. Then there would be enough room for me to play with getting a master volume and an LEDs switch in there in a logical manner. Or, since the toggle switches take up much less room than the pots and their circuit cards, you could also change the Orion-like bass and treble controls to Europa-like bass and treble switches. The last and most unattractive option for me is to leave the control list at the 12 stated items. There's only two routes to go there. One is to have things just really too close together, and the other is to route a separate battery compartment to give more room in the main compartment. The latter will take more time, since we've already rubbed out the bass and it will likely need some refinishing after cutting a new cavity. Digest these options and let me know what you think. | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 241 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hellooo, Mica. Hmmmmm.Lemme mull this over. I had a feeling this was gonna happen. I think the most logical option is just to trash the Master Volume idea, and see if there would be enough room somewhere for the LED switch. That would leave me with the same tone options. I dunno. Maybe trash the Bass and Treble. Is it REALLY necessary with the "Q" switches and filters? A separate cavity is definately out, and as usual, you're right. It would just be too cluttered and probably a pain to use, especially live. Let me research this over the weekend, maybe get some feedback from more knowledgeable Alembecians, and I'll get with you early in the week. Thanxxxxx, Mica, have a great weekend! Mike=\ (Message edited by 5stringho on February 09, 2008) | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 642 Registered: 11-2004 |
Mike, I have Signature electronics with the Rogue bass/treble switches. I can tell you that I have NEVER used the bass/treble switches live and I rarely use them when I'm fiddling around at home. I tweak the filters and Q's constantly, but if I want more bass or treble I just adjust on the amp. If you're already used to using the controls on your amp to boost/cut your bass/treble response then you might not miss the bass/treble controls on the bass. Good luck Toby | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hey,Toby-I really appreciate your input. I considered the Bass/treble switches, but on my Excel, I RARELY turn my Bass/treble control knobs all the way up (6dB) boost, and never turn them all the way down, and the swithes are set @ +6dB boost. It would clip my Eden. I set everything flat, and, like you, constantly fiddle with the controls. I've never had filters and "Q's" before, so I would prefer to keep the Bass/Treble knobs. Me being a control freak again =(. I also change basses quite a bit (which I HOPE I won't have to do once the new one arrives!) and much prefer to not have to change the amp settings. Our soundman whines and snivels. If we do away with anything, it will probably be the Master Volume. It would be nice, but I have other bass with the individual volumes, and I find a way to work with them. I could probably adjust:}, but I want to explore all the scenarios. I thank you again for your thoughts, stay tuned!! Have fun, Mike, tho =] | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 244 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hello, Mica!! Hope you had a great weekend! First of all, idea; Do you, or have you, ever used stacked pots? I don't recall seeing any in the archives, but if that's an option, a stacked Bass/Treble set would be fine, and we could keep the Master Volume with a minimum of hassle. Just a thought. I would really like to keep all the controls if we can. If that idea is not possible, choice #2. From my research and some very helpful input from other Alembic owners, most notably Mark Shepherd, here is what may be an option to work in all the controls in an a attractive and functional manner: Mark's 8 string has the same number of knobs, and more switches, so I think this will work! I really like the design you came up with, and this keeps the basic configuration while working in the additional Master Volume control and toggle. Looking at your layout, 1) begin by spreading the knobs on the upper and lower row as far out and close to the cavity edge as possible. 2)Add the Master volume where the Neck volume currently lives. 3) Move the neck volume where the 4-way is now, leaving the Bridge volume as is, just closer to the bridge as earlier stated (you'll see...)That keeps the volume controls all in line and order. 4) Move to 4-way to where the Q's are on the bottom row. 5) Next, adjust the output up just a hair, to make it symmetrical with the rest of the middle row, while placing it as close as possible to the cavity edge towards the bridge end. 6) since the toggles are more space efficient, this should work-Place the Stereo/mono switch logically next to the output. 7)Bridge Q toggle next, bridge filter knob follows. 8) Neck filter knob, with neck q toggle to the left. Move the 2 filter nobs minutely closer together if necessary, but of course as far apart as possible. 9) LED toggle last in line, closest to the cavity edge towards the neck. 10) Bottom row- Bass control, 4-way p/u selector switch, treble control, all spread out symmetrically to mirror the top row. Mica, you are the expert and know how much can be done, the final call is up to you as to whether this will work or not, but it appears to me to be logical, attractive and functional. What do you think?? Workable? If not, do you have any other idea's on how we could work this up? I would rather exhaust all options and explore all scenarios before we start deleting things. I hope I'm not being too much of a pain, as it is not my intention. I would just like to have my ultimate Bass! But, I'd also like my own Island in the Caribbean =) One more minor detail- with the single set of Bass/Treble controls on Anniversary Electronics I believe in Stereo mode they will only work on 1 pickup? If that is the case, which pickup would not have the control? I can deal with that, as I'll probably only run mono for now live, probably using stereo mostly while recording. Just wanna know. Welllll, just check this all over an let me know whatcha think. I definately don't wanna rout out anything else. I kinda want my bass!!!!!!  Have a great day, and have fun!! TTY, Mike=] | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 262 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hartmut's doubleneck has concentric knobs, Mike, but I seem to recall (and the search function is going WAY too slow on my computer today, so I don't have a link for this) Mica writing that Ron said he wouldn't do that again. Peter | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2006 |
Or (I know, Oh, Gosh, here he goes again) 1) Top row as stated above. 2) Bottom row as stated above Middle row: 3) Output as stated above 4) Bridge and neck filters basically same as above, in the center of the spread. 5) Place bridge Q under bridge Volume, sorta between the top and middle row, stereo/mono under Q toggle, between middle and bottom row. 6) place Neck Q toggle in same position to the neck side between the upper and middle row. 7) place LED toggle under Q toggle, between middle and bottom row. Maybe this is more logical? I drew out a diagram of both, but I can't post it, too big. Gotta figure out how to resize if I can. Lemme know whatcha think, Have fun, Mike=] | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5129 Registered: 6-2000 |
Can you email me your diagrams? Then I can make sure I'm really following your descriptions when I try and rearrange things. Concentric controls are not an option at this time. Normally, the bass and treble controls would be for one pickup only in either stereo or mono. It is possible to out the stereo/mono switch before the bass and treble controls, so they are always on the tip of the output. This will have it affect the bass (neck) pickup in stereo, but both in mono. It's a little custom wiring harness, but completely possible to do. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5130 Registered: 6-2000 |
Got your emails today with the diagrams. Here's how I've adapted your ideas to work with what's under the knobs:   A-D should be on a straight line, but this is just for a quick look. Depending on your preference, we could assign the controls not explicitly labeled something like: A neck filter B bridge filter C bass D treble 1 neck Q 2 bridge Q 3 LEDs 4 stereo/mono Also note that the stereo/mono switch is usually installed as a half-height paddle, so it's harder to hit on accident. Another option is to use the layout in my first post on this thread, change the stereo/mono switch to the LEDs switch, and leave the stereo/mono switch inside the bass. You can always take the backplate off to change the mode when you record since you've indicated you probably won't use it much otherwise. Anything you can omit will gain comfort space between the controls. You could also use a volume pedal instead of a master volume, but of course, you need to commute back to it for the overall changes. Just some thoughts. Let me know if you like either of the new ideas, or if this sparks something else entirely. | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1898 Registered: 4-2004 |
my 2 cents i would be concerned about the selector switch so far away since i got one on scarlet i use it more than i thought during tunes. i dont really think the treble control is necessary as alembics are brighter to begin with and the q filters and switches give me more than i need and once i set the treble at the amp there is more than enough manueverability maybe put the switches in the middle and move the knobs to the bottom this is just my opinion.... | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hey, Flax! I really appreciate your views and input. In consideration of the B/T controls, I have found, on my Excel and other Basses, I find myself using the Treble Control mainly to CUT the high freq's. Especially when I'm going for an old-school blues vibe, dub tone, or, on the occaisions my bandmates MAKE me play some gawd-awful (gulp) quasi-country crap some drunk invariably asks for (choke, gag). I've also thought a lot about the 4-way placement. Maybe it'll change once I have this bass, but I normally don't find myself changing pick-up's during songs. If I need a different tone, I generally change RH position to closer or further from the bridge. But I DO change tones and P/U's a lot before songs. I think (maybe hope, anyway) having the 3 volumes together will be better for me and my "style" (whatever THAT is!). I'll learn to deal with the 4-way. But the thought DID cross my mind, especially since you pointed it out. Anyhoo, thanxxxx again for the insight, and if I'm ever in the neighborhood, I'll buy YOUSE a Beah!! Have fun, Mike, tho =] | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 250 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hello, Mica!! Just wanted to let you know I'm still contemplating the layouts. I'm pretty sure I know which way I want to go, but I want to be 100%. I also want to include my Son in the process,as he will, ultimately, wind up with this beauty in the future. I'll let you know today or Monday at the latest, so the Elves can get to Drillin' and Fillin , and I can start usin' my anti-hyperventilation Paper bag!!! Have a great day, TTY soon, Mike =] | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hello, Mica! Hope ya had a great weekend. just wanted to let you know, my little pea brain has finally made a decision on this layout thingie. Back and forth, up and down, looked at it from every angle, and here it is! After much consternation, I have decided to DELETE the MASTER VOLUME and go with the original layout you came up with (post 5114 on my FTC). Like I told you before, I REALLLLLY like that setup. After talking with several owners on and off the FTC, I've decided the Master volume just wasn't all that important, the B/T controls are, as is the Stereo switch. And, as much as I like the layout you came up with including all the stuff, I think, over time, it may have just been too much. On the basses I have with the 2 volume controls, I really don't find myself missing the master volume. The guys I talked to that only had the filters and Qs said they didn't miss the B/T controls, but the ones that HAD them loved 'em. This will also leave a little breathing room. 'Nuff said! One more little detail- The LED switch. I would like to have it placed between the Neck Volume and Bass control, as far forward as possible before getting into the Battery cavity (toward the neck). UNLESS, of course, you have a better idea! I know everything will be symetrically perfect when drilled, But I'd appreciate one more final mock-up before we actually drill, if it isn't too much trouble. After that, as soon as scheduling allows, please have Uncle Bob Drill'em, and Dad fillem! I'm starting to get excited again Thanxxx again, sorry to be such a pain! Have fun, Mike.... P.S.-Thankxxx everybody, esp. Mark, Jim, Flax, Toby, & Peter.... (Message edited by 5stringho on February 16, 2008) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 5145 Registered: 6-2000 |
This is just quick for positional reference, but based on your emails and posts:  Confirm with me and I'll work on bringing the controls in nice straight rows. | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hellooo, Mica! Thanks for taking the time to put together a final mock-up for me. I appreciate it, and it looks GREAT! This is the one. Everything is accessible, well placed, and logical. I knew you would come up with a winner. Did ya get my strings??? Thanks again, Have a great day, Mike =] | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1909 Registered: 4-2004 |
no master volume? wow i think that is a huge mistake i have one on scarlet and none on wolf getting the right balance on levels and then being able to turn it up with one knob is huge the other way- sheeet do i add more bridge or neck oh no= wrong let me do this- where was that setting? | ||
| 5stringho
Advanced Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hey, Flax, we'll see how this works out. For the last month or so I've been intentionally rehearsing and gigging with dual volume-control basses, just to see if I would really miss a master. I find that the vast majority of the time I play with One volume maxed, and the other in the "sweet spot", just below max. Most of the time, it's Neck max, bridge down. For fadeouts and stuff, I just roll the side of my hand over both volumes. Works pretty good. I also adjust right-hand technique to dynamically raise or lower stage volume. A master volume would have been nice, but, I've found for me, not a necessity. I really liked the layout Mica designed sans Master, and thought the others, though also attractive, were too cramped for space. With the controls we have on this Bass I should be able to get just about anything I want out if it (I hope!) and there's still gonna be a lot of "where was that setting?" =O Thanxxx again for your input, good luck in the JobQuest, also. Have fun, Mike, tho =] | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 322 Registered: 3-2004 |
I suppose if you really missed the master volume, you could always add a volume pedal to your signal chain (although that is one more thing to drag around). Just a thought. |
