| Author | Message | ||
| mrbeezroom
Junior Username: mrbeezroom Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm trying to find the best starting point to the quickest learning curve(does that even make sense?)in integrating my recently purchased SF-2. I have a Stewart World 1.6, a F-1X, Korg DTR-1, Furman PL-8 and now the SF-2. I'm playing an Orion 5 and a customized Ibanez Musician w/ Sadowsky electronics. I play through either an Accugroove El Whappo or an Eden DT210. The choices are somewhat overwhelming. What I could use is some advice on the best way to wire it up and someone's experience and/or success with the best tone settings on both Alembic units. I'd appreciate anything anyone can share. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1671 Registered: 9-2002 |
See: http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/6134.html?1069586402 The MPX-100 was left out recently. SF-2 in the effect loop of the F1-X. I work in bi-amp so Channle B from the Dynacord gets lowpass goes to Glockenklang 15", Channel A high pass goed to GLockenklang 4x10". Korg gets gets the "full range" out from the F1-X. All power comes from my powersupply what is in my case the Americanaudio thing. Tip 1: start working with the SF-2 as 3 band channel unit, so in mono. Tip 2: work with a high general input level on the SF-2 and a LOW level on the F1-X Tip 3: for better understanding of what the SF-2 does IMHO you better start working with teh SF-2 channels in band-pass mode, than choose a bandwitdh-channel that you want to emphasis in your sound and than "tweak" that bandwidth. Just some ideas. Paul the bad one | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 916 Registered: 5-2002 |
My suggestions: - Run the DTR-1 off the second input of the F-1X so that it stays out of the signal chain. - Run the SF-2 in the effects loop of the F-1X. - As Paul suggested, run the SF-2 in three channel mono mode. My current setting: - I have the SF-2 input gain all the way up. - I use the first filter in low pass mode. -- I vary the first filter gain depending on the room and to tweak the tone. Right now it's on 5. -- Right now my first frequency is 110Hz and the damping ratio is 1.25. I don't change these often. - I vary the direct gain as a tone adjustment. The direct gain is the dry signal; so adjusting it changes the relationship of the F-1X output tone to the two filters. Since I run the filters in low and high pass modes, the direct gain is for me a mid-range adjustment. Right now mine's at 7.5, but I vary it a lot depending on room and to tweak tone. - I use the second filter in high pass mode. -- Again, I vary the second filter gain depending on the room and to tweak the tone. Right now it's on 7. -- Right now my second frequency is 680Hz and the damping ratio is 1.5. I don't change these often - The bass and mid on my F-1X are both at 5 and the treble is at 5. I don't change these often either. - I run the F-1X output full range to the power amp. If you try these settings you'll probably find that you don't like the resulting tone. I suppose my tone could be described as "clean", i.e. not crunchy or ballsy or overly growly. My low filter settings give me a very warm, broad and even low end; and my high filter settings give me a broad and even high end bite. Taste in tone varies significantly among players and it is unlikely that you will find these settings to be just right for you. I did not just stumble upon my current settings, but kept working at them until I got to the point where I am now. And they will no doubt change some more going forward; which for me is part of the fun of chasing tone. | ||
| mrbeezroom
Junior Username: mrbeezroom Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks for the input. I just needed a place to start that didn't sound awful and I wasn't sure if I should include it in the effects loop. I'll be putting in some hours exploring. Chasing tone on the SF-2 instead of at the music store is a whole lot cheaper and less frustrating. Any other ideas? Feel free to chime right in. | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 126 Registered: 11-2003 |
John, I use my SF-2 in conjunction with my Ampeg SVT IV Pro Amp. The Ampeg has two amplifiers and a crossover, so I use it in the biamp configuration. What I do is run the power amp out to the ins on the SF-2, and then that into the power amp ins on the Ampeg. Works great. My channel A is by 1X15 cabinet, which is set at low pass. The B channel goes to my 4X10 cabinet (both are Ampeg BXT models), set at high pass. I did try it in the effects loop, but it just sounded better to me running it the way I do. I do have to watch the volume levels, since it has a tendency to clip, particularly when using a bass with active electronics. Funny, my alembics don't clip out no matter what I do ... imagine that! Anyway, I think you'll find the SF-2 an invaluable piece of equipment, particularly for non-alembics, and non-active electronics basses. It does wonders for my Rickenbacker 4001 and '73 Fender Jazz. Hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine. Best regards, Alan | ||
| mrbeezroom
Junior Username: mrbeezroom Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks Alan | ||
| thebass
Intermediate Member Username: thebass Post Number: 157 Registered: 3-2003 |
Hi, I'm running my F-1X/SF-2 setup almost the same way: F-1X 1st, SF-2 in the FX loop, switched to mono. The 1st SF-2 filter acts as a bassbooster in bandpassmode, freq. 80..120Hz, filter gain upon room requirements or taste. The second filter works in high pass mode, filter gain fully left, freq. 1kHz or higher. The SF-2 input gain is always fully up. I set my volume and drive with the F-1X input volume between 4 (very clean) up to 6 (just a tiny little bit of distortion). I don't use the X-over of the F-1X I have connected my Tuner (a Korg CA-30 cheapo) to the low pass out of the F-1X and set the X-over freq. to 600-700Hz. This works very fine since the tuner gets less harmonics (which I use quite extensively) and has more accuracy. | ||
| glocke
Junior Username: glocke Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey Mr. Beez... I was just wondering how you like the stweart poweramp? Is it effected much by dirty power? I have a QSC/Demeter set up that I hardly get to use becuase some places I go to have some problem or othr with dirty power... | ||
| jeff
Member Username: jeff Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2003 |
John, I know this question is not related to this thread, but I notice that you listed the Accugrove El Whappo as part of your rig. In another thread, (see http://alembic.com/club/messages/402/10130.html?1088145767), I was attempting to find out if anyone has ever auditioned, or even heard, the 21" Whappo Grande. Have you? What are your observations? How do you like the El Whappo? Thanks. | ||
| mrbeezroom
Junior Username: mrbeezroom Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2004 |
glocke, I love the Stewart. 1600 watts and 13 lbs. Haven't had any noise problems. I use a Furman PL-8 power conditioner. jeff, the El Whappo is great. Great tone and can take the power. I did communicate with someone about buying an F-1X (I think his name is Jean Baudin). He plays a Conklin 9-string (low F#!) with an El Whappo and the 21-inch sub. He seemed happy with his cabs. You might want to do a search for jbaudin here and/or at Talkbass Forums. Hope this helps. | ||
| jeff
Member Username: jeff Post Number: 68 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for the info on the Accugroove cabs. I also have an F-1X and SF-2 and I am nowhere near exploring all of the possibilities. I purchased the SF-2 recently and it arrived with a chart that illustrated various settings that I found to be VERY helpful. One of the settings is for a "shake the walls" kind-of bass, which I really like. If you don't have this chart, I'm sure that Alembic will be happy to send you one. | ||
| geddy
Junior Username: geddy Post Number: 21 Registered: 7-2004 |
mrbeezroom Jean Baudin, he's the guy with the q-bert bass isn't he? lol I think he plays in nuclear rabbit, not sure though. | ||
| joram
Junior Username: joram Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2004 |
He's the guy from Nuclear Rabbit, with the fanned fret 9 string pacman bass. http://www.conklinguitars.com/artistprofiles/baudindescript.html http://www.nuclearrabbit.com/ Those guys from NR are strange, to say the least. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 922 Registered: 5-2002 |
Earlier in this thread I suggested running the tuner off the second input of the F-1X. I've changed my mind. A fellow member emailed me about this and I did some checking. Here is what I have found. I checked the F-1X manual and read the following: "Input Jacks - Input #1 is high gain, the most frequently used. Input #2 pads the input signal by 6db and is recommended for use with very "HOT" basses or keyboards to prevent overload of the input stage. Two instruments may be played simultaneously by using both jacks, the signals will then be equally weighted." The quote above says that when two instruments are plugged in, the signals are equally weighted. So I just went and turned on my rig and sure enough, having the tuner plugged into the second input does attenuate the signal from my bass. With my bass plugged into Input #1, when I unplug the tuner the sound from the speakers is louder. Since I'm running full range, the high and low outputs on the F-1X are free. So I tried plugging the tuner into them; but my tuner did not like being plugged into either one of them (I had tried this before, but thought I would try again to make sure). I'm guessing this is because of the phase difference between the crossover outputs and the full range output. The tuner is just not as well behaved as it is when it is plugged into the second input. At the moment, I do not have a cable with quarter inch plugs on both ends that is phase switched to see if that would help. When I have a chance, I will switch the connections on a test cable and see if that helps the tuner live with being plugged into one of the crossover outputs. I'm hoping that by switching the leads on the cable, my tuner will work properly plugged into one of the crossover outputs. I would rather have it plugged in there so the signal from my bass will not be attenuated at the input. Werner, in his post above, said that he has his Korg tuner plugged into the low-pass output and that it is working fine. And Paul states that he runs in bi-amp mode and has his Korg plugged into the full range output. My tuner is a Sabine RT-1601. If anyone else has any comments on this issue I would very much like to hear them. | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 274 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave, I have a RT1601 also. I plug my bass into the tuner and loop out of the tuner into the F-1X input. Easy as pie! That way I can use the front panel mute if I don't want to tune at performance volume. So the setup is: Epic > Tuner > F-1X > QSC Some gigs I use a Shure wireless setup, Then the receiver takes the place of the Epic in the above chain, with a long monster cable in case the wireless system dumps out. I can pull the wireless offline and swap the long cable to the bass and keep playing. Mike | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 429 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mike, Do you notice any signal loss through the wireless set up? | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 275 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Hollis, I'm not seeing it in terms of level at all. There's an output level adjust on the receiver to compensate for any drop, but it has no unity setting, and where I've got it set there's no level drop. There may be some frequency loss, but I can't hear it in a live bar setting with the rest of the band going. My lead guitarist always sets up next to me, with the drummer on my other side, then the second guitarist, and sax/keyboard player out at the other end. Mike | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 928 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike; I've been avoiding having the tuner in the signal chain since, as a general rule, the more stuff you have in the chain the more noise you introduce into the chain. I'll A/B it today and see if having the tuner in the chain add's any discernable noise. If not, then I'll go with that solution; perhaps sticking it somewhere in the effects loop. | ||
| cntrabssn
Junior Username: cntrabssn Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave, It sounds like you may be on the way to a solution, but I just wanted to add a couple of things: I don't think the phase of the signal feeding the tuner makes a difference here, since the tuner sees only a single input signal. Also, I'm not sure that attempting to flip the phase with a cable will work, or is a good idea. The crossover and full range outputs are single-ended, referenced to ground. A reverse wired cable will essentially short the output driver to ground through the input of the tuner. At best, you'll get no signal at the tuner. At worst, you could get no signal and a damaged output device. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm wondering if your problem is related to the level or harmonic content of the signal feeding the tuner. You could see if the tuner behaves differently depending on your volume setting. Also , as Werner said, tuners like to see a simple signal, as pure as possible. Perhaps running the tuner post EQ (SF & F1-X) is freaking it out. Since you're already using the low pass output, experimenting with the crossover frequency might help. - nate. (Message edited by cntrabssn on October 16, 2004) | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 930 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nate; thanks for the response. On your first point. Some of the members here are running one cabinet out of the full range output and a subwoofer out of the low-pass output. To do that they are reversing the phase out of the low-pass side (to eliminate the distortion that otherwise occurs). How does that situation differ from the one I was describing. I think you are right that the tuner was "freaking out", an apt description, running post EQ. There are several components affecting both level and harmonic content in the chain. I did try placing the tuner in the chain between the bass and the F-1X; and I could not hear any additional noise. So, that's where I'm going to leave it. Another day, another lesson learned. | ||
| cntrabssn
Junior Username: cntrabssn Post Number: 22 Registered: 6-2002 |
Dave, To correct for the phase difference between the full range and crossover outputs, you need to reverse the phase at one set of speaker terminals. Note that if the F1-X line outputs were balanced and you were using balanced power amplifier inputs, you would be able to invert the phase on one of the interconnects between the F1-X and the power amp. In this case, we're compensating for phase cancellation that results from trying to use two signals that aren't phase coherent. This situation differs from your tuner scenario because there is only one signal we're worried about, not two. You're just sending a signal to the tuner that you don't intend to use elsewhere. Since the tuner sees only one signal (e.g. low pass from F1-X), there's nothing else to cause the phase cancellation at the tuner input. By the way, you should also be able to use the tuner as the first device in your effects loop without difficulty. You'll get the benefit of using the first half of the tube as a buffer. I hope this helps. - nate. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 934 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nate; thanks for a clear explanation. For the moment, I understand; but I'm sure I'll forget again in the future <g>. |
