| Author | Message | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2004 |
Hi everybody, I just offered my Mark King bass for sale in the swap-and-trade section. What I didn't realize when I bought it, for some stupid reason this bass sounds like Mark King; short, tight plucking tones (if you pluck that is). But I can't get a fat Marcus Miller slap/pluck sound out of it. Too clean. Anyone a suggestion to overcome this? I allready tried a compressor, which helps thickening the sound a bit. Thanks, Cor. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1083 Registered: 6-2002 |
Heavier strings? Panpot more towards the neck pickup? Plucking closer to the neck? Are you using the Q switches? Try different Q settings, with different settings for the filter pot. You could try turning up the trimpots in the control cavity to get a hotter signal. Otherwise, swapping the AXY/MXYs with FatBoys might be an idea. | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 133 Registered: 3-2006 |
I think Marcus bass has an Ash body and a bolt on Maple/Maple fingerboard for a start. Then, it is not easy to get a Jazz Bass sound out of an Alembic, if you really want that sound, you'd better get a Jazz Bass, and ash body makes a BIG difference next to a Jazz Bass with Alder body. I'd say, keep your Alembic my friend, nothing can sound, feel or play like an Alembic! My old Persuader which I had to part with unfortunately, had an amazing sound + feel that I cannot replicate with my Arialembic (Aria body/wood, Alembic PUs/electronics). Further, "unfortunately" Alembic Filters are LOW PASS Filters "only" and the switch is the equivalent of the RESONANCE parameter on an old Analog synth (MOOG, ARP), while it's amazing what you can come up with, you are limited in a way, the BEST and ONLY option would be for ALEMBIC upgrade the LOW PASS filter and offer the option to select PEAKING or BAND PASS Filter as well as low pass, equivalent to a fully parametric EQ, so you could shape the sound directly from the bass itself. My Aria SB sound for instance, is "impossible" to reproduce with my Arialembic, because the Aria sounds "mid range" and the Alembic sounds "bass + treble", even if I use the filter to sweep down to a point were I can get close (more mid range because of a Q-switch boost for instance...), there are still a couple of issues; 1) I cannot roll-off the bass, unless I use an external high pass filter, 2) the Alembic Low pass filter rolls-off everything above the selected cut point (obviously, it is a low pass filter), so you'd loose the higher frequencies, shame. That is the only complaint I would have with it. I don't think we need series 3 to get this implemented, the low pass filter is designed to act as low pass filter, yet, it is possible to make it a selectable low pass/band pass out of the same board, of course it would require some knowledge to do so, I don't have that knowledge unfortunately... On the other hand, if I were you, I would keep my Alembic and would purchase a cheap Fender Jazz bass copy, and order a set of US fender pickups and you are sorted. Don't go for Bass wood for the body, Ash is snappy, Alder is more mellow/warmer. The good thing with Fender is that every single parts are very easy to find, purchase or replace/upgrade. I wouldn't sale my Alembic if I were you, give it some time, play it more, spend more time with it, try different fingering technique, you will find that the Alembics are like no other Basses on the market and they require a very different approach when you play them, I am only starting to understand + experience that, although I am to Alembic. Regarding dynamic processors + EQs, I'd say that you can get a beefier tone out of your bass if you boost EQ between 40HZ and 120HZ max, and do not use shelving type EQ unless you can roll off below/around 40Hz, in fact, always roll off around 30/40Hz when you record the bass. Compressor are very helpful for slap, or fingering as well, especially if you record, in fact I'd say that if your compressor has the right setting, you can get an amazing tone out of your bass, and depending on how you set it, if you play for a while through it, and then switch it of... you my tell yourself, "SCARY!" LOL SLOW attack will be more aggressive and FAST attack will be more soft and "boomy". My other little complain, is that Alembic low pass filter, "only" goes down to 350Hz, I wished it could go lower than that, it would be very useful, especially to get some huge sub-sonic tones in conjunction with the Q-switches. For those who are tempted to say: get an SF-2, my answer is: let me win the lottery first  HTH, LG (Message edited by lg71 on October 10, 2006) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 608 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have the SC version of the bass you have and that too doesn't give a good marcus miller sound, It can get reasonably close, but I understand it's not supposed to sound like MM. If you want to stick with Alembic and get a very good marcus miller tone, can I suggest you look for an Europa. I got one last year and it is very easy to get a high quality Marcus Miller tone with the stingingly crisp bite to it. I've managed to get very close to the sound Marcus gets on the Silver Rain CD and also the earlier less middly tone he used on the winelight album. Maybe you could sell your mk and look for an Europa. They are cheaper too. No idea what your bass rig is but in my experience, I think also the Europa is more forgiving if you haven't got a fantastic bass rig. The Signature models in my opinion don't sound fantastic until you plug them into a fantastic kit. Just my two pennies worth. Jazzyvee | ||
| hifiguy
New Username: hifiguy Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2006 |
I have managed to get an excellent Jaco-esque sound from my SCS with the Q switches in, the filters set about 60% of wide open and the blend knob halfway between dead center and bridge only. Gotta play with fingers to get the sound, and I give the midrange and presence on my vintage Hiwatt head a bit of a kick up. For that hard, barky staccato funk sound this is as good as my (Tokai made) FOJ Jazz. The big-bottom Miller slap sound (as opposed to the twangy Stanley slap sound) is more problematic. An Alembic is so clean sounding and balanced from the lowest E to the highest G that the interesting anomalies one finds in mass-produced basses aren't there. Just as the only thing Robert Fripp can't play is streight 12-bar blues, an Alembic can do everything but that cool but woolly around the edges sound of many Jazz Basses. lg71 is also right on the mark in saying that experimentation with your Alembic is worth your while. The Sig electronics are very powerful and some wild and unexpected sounds are there to be found. Ditto for his remarks on varied playing techniques. Do not sell your Alembic - you will  regret it. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2046 Registered: 9-2003 |
Try an EMW-equipped Orion with an ash body/maple top. I have two with the J-activators. You most certainly can get the J-bass sound PLUS mostly all of the sounds associated with any Alembic. Ron and Co. designed the original EMW COM with that express purpose in mind. Cheers, Kevin PS, the original EMW COM: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_emw.html My EMW #1: http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/8557.html?1093301442 My EMW#2 http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/20447.html?1135739441 PPS, FWIW I understand that bkbass Barry is getting very nice J-bass tone(s) out of his Alembic customs (although it took him years to find them), including a nice Jaco-esque fretless tone out of his '05 Rogue COTM: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_jelly.html | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 407 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have two Essences .. one, the Burkha King, I used in Baghdad, Iraq. The other is one I bought at a place in Raleigh, NC. I can tell you unequivocably that I can achieve Jaco tones with both basses, using the bridge pickup only. If that's what you're looking for, pick up an Essence. You won't be sorry. Alan | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 116 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm able to coax a JB tone out of my 32" hot rodded spoiler with sig electronics. Neck p/u has full bass,Bridge p/u at the 4 O'Clock position blend pot at the 10 O'Clock position. I use 30-90 GHS SS round wounds. The low action and flex in the strings gets that Marcus sound (somewhat)I often muse of taking a lower action to the limit for a full bore Marcus tone but then I catch myself and ask why do I want to sound like Marcus?Marcus sounds like Marcus I'll just try to sound like BK. Oh yeah,the neck is maple w PH stringers the body is Maghogany with a thick accent of Maple and a Burl Walnut top. | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 448 Registered: 4-2005 |
Hey Corny. How about getting a Jazz bass? A player can't have too many basses, is what I say. David | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 140 Registered: 3-2006 |
That's right, this is what I suggested too, and a Jazz bass doesn't have to be a genuine Fender Jazz to sound like a Jazz bass, a much cheaper copy would do the job, as long as you get the right wood combination. On the other hand, you won't be able to get a cheap copy of an Alembic, to sound like a real Alembic! | ||
| terryc
Member Username: terryc Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2004 |
My ten pennies worth(UK member) I own a Mark King and to me it has all the sounds you need BUT and this is a big BUT, the sound as said by everyone before me depends on so many wood/tone setting combinations. Mark King actually uses the Series II basses with the vari-Q controls so it is not exactly like the sounds he gets. As one member has already said, don't sell it, you will not find a better bass in terms of playability, looks and sounds. It took me the best part of a year to get to know what was inside my bass as far sounds go, the tone controls are extremely sensitive especially if you have just been used to passive controls and the Q switches offer even more variation. In three words - DON'T GIVE UP! I also own a Squier Precision which I put an Alembic P/J activator set with twin vols, bass & treble controls plus a Baddass bridge. The body is bass wood but the neck is a lovely flame maple piece(not rosewood fingerboard). This sounds totally different to my MK and is very close to the Marcus Miller sound(even though it has not got an alder body) I guess it is as I say all the different combinations that produce the sound, I would suggest that when trying to find the tone is to keep all amp settings at the flat point so there is no colouration from the amp(I guess you know that already) | ||
| palmann
Member Username: palmann Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2005 |
Why do you want to sound like Marcus Miller? Gruesse, Pablo | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 617 Registered: 6-2002 |
When you are playing a Marcus Miller track at a gig and want some authenticity in tonality and dynamics maybe? Other than that I'm sure we all have our own tone. Keep on plucking. ;-) Jazzyvee | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 119 Registered: 11-2003 |
jazzyvee,for personal satisfaction maybe... Do you think that the drunken fool (outside of myself and other club members)gives a rat's catooty if the bottom end is upheld by an Alembic or a Peavey? Now if you can get the guy to turn away from his pinball game for ten seconds when you tweak the filter that speaks volumes. Only happened twice to me. | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2004 |
The MM sound is merely proverbial. Listen to this guy on a 1972 JB: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HTr5P_xewk4 That's what I like, really FAT and funky. This is my bass: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mOcy1xbECgk To me it sounds snappy, but not as colorful as the JB. Cor | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2004 |
PS: Kevin, very nice bass. Got any sound samples? PPS: Thank you all for replying. Very impressed by the interest of other people at the Alembic club:-) | ||
| tbrannon
Advanced Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2004 |
Cor- What were your filter settings on that Youtube clip? I'm far from the most knowledgable Alembic owner, but I'm absolutely overwhelmed with the variety of settings I can get with the signature electronics on my Rogue 5. Where were your filters and Q's set for that clip? Toby | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 822 Registered: 2-2006 |
Cor, I'm with Toby here. I can get that fat funk sound from any one of my Alembic basses. I do have to EQ them a little different than my Jazz. But that goes for mt other axes too, they all need a lttle something different to get a real fat , but crisp tone. Try cutting the mids and maybe even boosting the lows some. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 823 Registered: 2-2006 |
Cor, here is a clip recorded with my MK 5. Nothing fancy but I do like the tone, and IMHO has a very good fat funk sound. This was recorded with the bass plugged straight in to my sound card with out any preamp or EQ, other than the control on the bass itself. | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2004 |
(Message edited by rklisme on October 22, 2006) | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2004 |
I am not a slap guy but I have to agree with Olie. You need to cut the mids to start acheiving the tone you are looking for. By the way excellent job from both you guys I enjoyed listening to you! Rory (Message edited by rklisme on October 22, 2006) | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2004 |
Straight in to the sound card Olie? Sounds good! The filter settings on the YouTube clip were easy. Balance knob in the middle and the other pots open (clockwise). Yes, I cut the mids on the EQ of my amp. In the meanwhile I discovered that Adriaan's suggestion of adjusting the trimpots was very helpful (I rotated the neck PU trimpot a quarter clockwise). Also, replacing the battery helped (blush...) And finally, I'm expecting my brandnew second hand unknown brand JazzBass this afternoon by the mail:-) Again, thank y'all for your encouragements. Kind regards, Cor | ||
| palmann
Member Username: palmann Post Number: 55 Registered: 6-2005 |
Did you record your clip with the cameras microfone? The other guy seems to plug his bass directly into a mixer or soundcard. Gruesse, Pablo | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hey guys, thanks for posting those clips, to me you all sound great, you shouldn't envy Clarke, King or Miller if I may... Each its own style. I would start to worry and get bored if everyone sounded like Marcus Miller ;) lol What makes life interesting is variety, maybe you tend to forget that none of the following named players sound the same; Jamerson, Clarke, Johnson, Pastorius, King, Miller, Claypool, Graham, so about you get you get your own sound, and listeners can say: "this is him or her" you know... Cor, glad to hear that you went for one of the option I suggested, although I am not saying that I am responsible for it. The great thing about it, is that you can always upgrade the PUs if needed, as well as any other parts, including tuners, bridge, neck, body, scratch-plate, pots knobs and so on... We hope you're keeping your BAD ASS ALEMBIC! Because, you may have not realized that everyone can get a cheap Jazz bass and make it sound like a Jazz, but that is not the case with Alembic! On the subject of Soundcard, computer and software... why not start a new section excusively devoted to the subject? I am sure that many members could benefit from it, i.e: How to get started, minimum specs, soundcard, software, sample libraries and so on... I'd be happy to advise and help, as I am very comfortable in this field. I am sure there are some technophobes amongst us, I have met plenty and help many, they never looked back once up and running... | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 825 Registered: 2-2006 |
Excellent suggestion LG, I recently installed an EMU-1820 in my PC and could use some suggestions. | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 164 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hi Olieoliver, we'd have get the "Goahead" from Mica or Dave I guess... Meanwhile the EMU-1820 is a great card, the preamps are designed by Ted Fletcher who has worked on the Joeemeek stuff, and the AD/DA converters are the same they use on Protools boards. I used to have two EMU ESI32 samplers, EMU were/are still highly respected for the fantastic + unique sounding algorithms for their Filters, much superior than the Akai. In fact Akai samplers are "dead", because of computer technology you don't really need the hardware version anymore (although can be useful and more reliable than computers for live work). But EMU did the right thing, they came up with a software version of the hardware, with more flexibility and feature I guess, but I never tried it though. | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 173 Registered: 3-2006 |
Cor, have you received the Jazz bass? What's the verdict then? | ||
| rraymond
Intermediate Member Username: rraymond Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2002 |
May be a little late for this, but how about using a Sadowsky outboard preamp. As Marcus has an onboard version on his Jazz, the outboard might be just the ticket. Good luck on the tone quest! Reid | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2004 |
Yes LG, I received the unknown brand JazzBass. I now realize that I'm a bit spoilt with the Alembic, because there were many, many things about the bass that annoyed me. On the other hand, I must admit that the basic sound is quite OK. I'll see if I can Tube something this afternoon;-). Groetjes, Cor. | ||
| corny
Junior Username: corny Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2004 |
Here`s a short sample of the cheap JazzBass clone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m7Bp3UMJeE (The video gets out of sync pretty soon, but hey...) Now that I'm able to compare it with my Alembic MK I'm absolutely convinced that I can't get this specific sound out of the Alembic, which I regret, since the Alembic is a lot easier to play. Kind regards, Cor | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 831 Registered: 2-2006 |
Keep fine tuning Cor, I know you can get that sound with the MK. | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2006 |
Cor, thanks for posting the link, it's very nice. I don't know enough wether you can get the Jazz sound or not out of you MK, Olie has more experience in that domain. Personally, I think that you did a very sensible thing, and you can always change/upgrade the PUs on the new Jazz. Congratulation on your new instrument! It's also encouraging for you, to know that Olie can get a Jazz sound out of his Alembic. I'd say once again, I personally found with Alembic PUs + electronics, you have to adapt and rethink/update your playing style, I noticed that the more gentle you are with it, the richer the sound becomes, it makes me think of a luxury instrument for "lazy" people, meaning that all you have to do is "caress" the bass, and you'll get some reward. I hope all this doesn't sound too corny... ;) Also, it's well worth trying some Fatboys, you'll hear a big difference! | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 832 Registered: 2-2006 |
LG you nailed it, "rethink/update your playing style" is exactly what I had to do when I got mt first Alembic. (not too long ago I might add) My other basses, especialy my 76 Jazz, I had to literally attack when I played them. Alembic basses pretty much do all the "work" for you. I have to use a much lighter touch with my right hand and really had to clean up my playing. Very well put LG Cor, the clip was cool too. You have some good chops. Don't give up on the MK. When you finally get it tweaked with your rig, MAN it will kick. I was in you shoes about a year ago. Got my first Alembic and it was great,UNTIL I start to slap...OUCH! I'd kill half the notes playing too hard and too much mid and..yada...yada..yada... But I stuck with it, kept playing with the EQ, "rethinking/updating" (I love that analogy)my playing style, and now If I play funk I play my MK. | ||
| lg71
Intermediate Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 181 Registered: 3-2006 |
Olie, thanks for your confirmation. In fact, a very interesting thing, is that with my Aria SB700 (all original), I can play with a hard attack and it will sound fine, in facts its very well suited for that I think. Then, with the other Arialembic (Aria SB with Alembic electronic + PUs), it's day and night, although, it's the same wood, neck, scale and so on... and you have to play MUCH softer. So, that speak for itself. The only thing I am missing from the SB700, its the very unique + specific midrange that is so "inimitable". It's amazing the difference you hear between the two basses. | ||
| mrbassman42
New Username: mrbassman42 Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2004 |
Just picking up on the end of this thread..... hope i'm not hi-jacking it, I think my question is relevant to the thread. Totally agree.... If you want miller tone you gotta have a 70's J bass with a pre-amp to boost at 40hz & 4hz.... period ! I achieve this with a Custom Shop LTD Ed Fender Jazz 1970 with on-board Sadowsky Pre. However what i've struggled with is achieving a rich full sounding bottom end from my Alembics over the years... you know a tone that fills space in a band and holds the band together..... The Alembic tone cuts through any wall of sound and get's heard on top of the mix but I can't seem to find a way to make a series Bass carry weight in a band. Would the SF2 help sculpt this ? Mark | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2057 Registered: 9-2003 |
An Alembic series that can't cut it on the bottom end? That's a first for me...what are you using for amplification? | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 941 Registered: 10-2003 |
Close the filters about 1/4 turn and pluck a bit closer to the neck. Set your volumes even. John | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 650 Registered: 2-2005 |
Moved response to "How to make it big!" thread. Keith (Message edited by keith_h on December 25, 2006) | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2006 |
All basses sound different. If your after the "standard" jazz bass sound, then get a Jazz bass. My saying is, if it was good enough for Jaco, its good enough for you and me. | ||
| mrbassman42
Junior Username: mrbassman42 Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hi KMH, Using Eden Kit..... Hi JSaylor I've got 3 Jazz Basses love em all, all sound different but all sound like a Jazz !! I just want to use my Alembic for all gigs..... and make it my Gigging Bass and part of "My SOund" so getting some of the best attributes of a great Fender type tone was my aim.... had some great responses here and in the other thread "How to Make it Big" Thanks Guys... Mark | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 428 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have played many types of basses and owned a few as well but have never a Fender. (guitars yes, 4 in fact) I understand the appeal but it was never for me. I suppose it was because I started on Gibson. I think I got a really good full sound for a James Brown cover for the Doomtree xmas cd. I used the f1x-sf2-plx3402-UL212 set up with an Elan 6 w/ Europa circut. I just dialed in what I liked. www.myspace.com/mydoomtree or www.myspace.com/dannobasso |
