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hb3
Advanced Member
Username: hb3

Post Number: 240
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 4:30 pm:   Edit Post

I was thinking of installing some on my SC custom.

I was looking at the Schallers, then saw some reports of screws not fitting, stripping out, making the holes bigger, etc.

Anyone have any experience with installation?
cozmik_cowboy
Intermediate Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 172
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 5:13 pm:   Edit Post

About every player I know that uses strap locks uses Schallers. With the pull release (as opposed to most others' push-button type) accidental release is impossible. The channel on the strap cradling the post is belt-and suspenders security. As to the screws, yes, they're a little bigger than most stock strap button screws. I've seen this cure the stock strap button working loose - the stock screw has stripped the hole, but I've never seen nor heard of the Schaller screw coming loose. I wouldn't use anything else.

Peter
chuck
Intermediate Member
Username: chuck

Post Number: 170
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 5:25 pm:   Edit Post

I installed my first set of Shaller strap locks this past saturday.Almost everyone at the N.C. gathering was using them.They are great.Use a little candle wax or bar soap rubbed into the screw hole and on the screw thread if they fit to tight.

Chuck

(Message edited by chuck on July 22, 2007)

(Message edited by chuck on July 22, 2007)
hb3
Advanced Member
Username: hb3

Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 6:08 pm:   Edit Post

Cool. I guess what I specifically read about the Schallers was that somehow the pressure or weight exerted on the screws caused the screwholes to become bigger over time or something.

Heh. He said "screwholes"....
2400wattman
Senior Member
Username: 2400wattman

Post Number: 425
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit Post

If you move a lot and shift your bass around you might want to get some longer screws as the screws that come with the Schallers are about the same length. If not then the stock screws will be fine. Other than bolting the strap directly to the bass, these are the best you can get. I also recommend putting a little carmex or vaseline on the strap button to lubricate it. The friction can work the screw lose. I'm going to stop here..................
keurosix
Intermediate Member
Username: keurosix

Post Number: 190
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 9:13 pm:   Edit Post

Hugh,
Straplocks are the way to go. There are two types: (Schaller) One has a standard post that attaches to the guitar, with a horse-shoe shaped strap attachment that has a spring-loaded pin you pull up on to release the lock. This is the better design. The other (Dunlop?) has a long strap barrel attached to the guitar, and a large capped strap attachment that inserts into the barrel and locks in place when you push down on the button on top. This design has 4 tiny ball bearings that lock in a groove in the barrel, and retract when the top button is depressed releasing the lock. I have had these fail numerous times, and they wear out quickly because the balls are too small. Also, because the lock releases with a push of the button, you can drop your guitar with a misplaced bump! That'll scare your pants off too! Imagine pulling up your guitar and your pants too! You'll miss more than a few beats!
I can also say that any straplock needs to be checked often for loosening hardware: Check the nut on the strap with an adjustable wrench. Leather compresses. Check the screw in the body. Alembics with a mahogany core tend to loosen up on the screws. You can tighten it only so much before you need to add a toothpick. If this works only temporary, you may need to follow the fix in the FAQ section about drilling out the hole, gluing in a hardwood dowel, and redrilling. Sorry, I can't find that post right now, but it it there. I have never had to go this route yet, but it really depends on how much you move around when you play.
Kris
dannobasso
Senior Member
Username: dannobasso

Post Number: 608
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 9:20 pm:   Edit Post

Old trick I use on all my basses (I shift and move around a lot) is to get a wooden toothpick, place it in the hole [sometimes 2 pieces] to really make the fit tight. Very often the Schallers are a smaller diameter screw than other brands. Even with this treatment I still have to tighten up the screws from time to time.
I only use schallers on my instruments.
hb3
Advanced Member
Username: hb3

Post Number: 242
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post

I wish I'd spent the bucks on recessed strap locks...
2400wattman
Senior Member
Username: 2400wattman

Post Number: 426
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 22, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post

The recessed locks are the Dunlop brand which are of the same design Kris was talking about. I've actually seen the posts break on these things. They're just not very reliable over time and they will break. Schallers are the way to go, or you could check out the DiMarzio ClipLok straps where there is a portion of the strap screwed to the bass(on each end) with a "female" clip end on it and the strap clicks to it.
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 1558
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:12 am:   Edit Post

With the Schallers, don't forget to re-tighten the nut on the strap - it gets loose over time.
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler

Post Number: 582
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 1:48 am:   Edit Post

I use Schallers on all my basses, they're great! Just use the original screws from your bass (not those supplied with the Schallers)
The screws on my (ex) Gibson the Ripper did not fit in the strapholders (screwhead too big) so I sanded them down to fit.
to_81_0190
Member
Username: to_81_0190

Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 2:05 am:   Edit Post

I agree to Adriaan. It's very important point.

When I changed strap button to straplocks, I have used original screw for straplocks to prevent the screw hole loose. Then the original screw head was larger than the hole of straplocks, I prepared another set of original screw and ground it's head to fit.

Toshiaki
terryc
Advanced Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 216
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 5:57 am:   Edit Post

I have the locks on my MK signature bass and as per usual the holes lost their threads.
Use the cocktail/match stick trick but put a few drops of thread locking liquid in the hole, this stuff is used on bolts which are prone to vibration, it doesn't completely glue the screw in but if you have to remove it at sometime use a good quality and tight fitting screwdriver to loosen it. Don't use epoxy because if the screw snaps then its new holes or a very careful drilling job!
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2547
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post

I also use Schallers on several guitars and have had no problems. I thought about the recessed locks, but decided against it. With the Schaller system, if my strap breaks, or I forget it, a regular old strap will work in a pinch. With the recessed locks, forget or break your strap at a gig and you're SOL.

Bill, tgo
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 1480
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:52 am:   Edit Post

I used the Schaller many years ago but stopped and went with the Dunlop after I had one come loose during a gig.
The nut on the saddle unscrewed. I've use the Dunlop since probably the 80's and have never had one drop.
You are right about the recessed locks Bill but I never show up to a gig with just one guitar or strap. Guess my boy scout roots kick in here. LOL

Be prepared, Olie



(Message edited by olieoliver on July 23, 2007)
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler

Post Number: 584
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 7:56 am:   Edit Post

Super glue or Loctite ;-)
Never had any problems with that...
olieoliver
Senior Member
Username: olieoliver

Post Number: 1481
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 8:25 am:   Edit Post

I had loctite on it when it gave loose.

Olie
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 1269
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:18 am:   Edit Post

I've squeezed a drop or two of Evo stick 'no more nails' into the screwholes of my schallers. Never had one loosen up since.

Graeme
jet_powers
Advanced Member
Username: jet_powers

Post Number: 333
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 9:24 am:   Edit Post

I've used the matchstick method in the past and found it takes about five years for it to stop working.

JP
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 2548
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post

I ALWAYS check twice that the nut (holding the clip on the strap) is tight before clicking the strap to the guitar. I LOVE the solid sound and feel when the Schaller locks into place.

Bill, tgo
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5348
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit Post

The recessed strap locks look great; but there was a thread around here quite some time ago where there were a couple of stories that lead me to believe that Schallers were the way to go. Of course there are negative reports on Schallers too, but I've used them for a long time and I'm happy with them. I can't remember but it seems to me I must have put lock washers on my strap at some point because they no longer seem to get loose. Like Danno, I tighten up the screws from time to time. And I've probably got a piece or two of match stick in the holes. I've often thought of getting some tiny lock washers for the buttons; and I might try Terry's suggestion of thread locking liquid.
keavin
Senior Member
Username: keavin

Post Number: 1262
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, July 23, 2007 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post

as a safety precaution i've stopped using straplocks & screwed my strap into my Bass which is what stanley clarke does.
alembickoa
Junior
Username: alembickoa

Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 7:44 am:   Edit Post

Well...I have recently been using the ORIGINAL strap locks which work great, are readily available, and economically viable.

Ya know those little plastic thingamajigs that come on bread bags? That's what we used before strap locks hit the market. They still work great, don't change the originality of the instrument, don't wear and tear the instrument, and, are a rather unique conversation piece should anyone happen to notice you using them.

Just a thought.
tbrannon
Senior Member
Username: tbrannon

Post Number: 508
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 7:52 am:   Edit Post

I use Schallers- they've always worked well for me. I check the strap screw once a month or so without any real problems. I've always found that the screw needs to be tightened pretty frequently on a new strap- once the leather is compressed and the strap is broken in I rarely have to tighten them.

I too have used the plastic tabs from bread bags. They work.
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 1272
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:07 am:   Edit Post

Keavin. When I saw Stanley in London recently, he was using straplocks. Just visible in this pic...
strange but true

Graeme
benson_murrensun
New
Username: benson_murrensun

Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post

It seems that the screws come loose less frequently if you use nylon washers between the strap posts and the guitar.

I, too, have used the toothpick-in-the-hole trick; I dip the end of the toothpick section(s) into Elmer's glue first. Not too much glue, please...
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5353
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 3:40 pm:   Edit Post

Interesting angle on the five pin in that picture.
byoung
Senior Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 734
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 5:17 pm:   Edit Post

Dave,

That's a 1/4" plug. You can see the 5-pin socket next to his middle finger.

Bradley
cozmik_cowboy
Intermediate Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 176
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:17 pm:   Edit Post

And the straplocks appear to be Schallers.

Peter
terryc
Advanced Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 220
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 2:04 am:   Edit Post

That plug is a large Neutrik 1/4" jack plug..very robust, almost bullet proof, can be stood on and don't bend
essenceman
Member
Username: essenceman

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 2:56 am:   Edit Post

I don't think it is a 1/4" jack, Terry. Neutrik do make angled XLR plugs in all flavours (3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 pin). I bought one of these when I was toying with the idea of powering my Essence remotely - it's a beautifully-made plug. I've not seen a Neutrik 1/4" jack in the same casing.

Here are a couple of pictures of mine:

Angled XLR

Neutrik have updated their products since I bought mine. Here are links to the relevant pages on their site:

Angled XLRs http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/audio/204_997818242/RX_Series_productlist.aspx

1/4" jacks http://www.neutrik.com/uk/en/audio/204_789383662/1_4__Prof._Phone_Plugs,_X-Series_productlist.aspx

(Sorry, this wouldn't work as a link, you'll just have to copy and paste it.)

Cheers
Rob

(Message edited by essenceman on July 25, 2007)
terryc
Advanced Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 221
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 8:31 am:   Edit Post

Essenceman, if you look closely it is(byoung verifies it and you can see the 3 pin XLR plate near his finger) and I know because I have one on one of my leads. Same mount casing as XLR but 1/4" pin
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 817
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 9:12 am:   Edit Post

I'm not surprised he is using batteries in Europe (ie 1/4 inch jack). It probably easier to replace batteries than lug around a DS5 or the different voltage.

Keith
bassdr
Member
Username: bassdr

Post Number: 97
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post

When the screws holding my Schallers stripped out the holes in the wood I installed threaded bronze inserts into the wood and use machine screws. No more loosening screws. I also check the nuts that secure the strap locks to the leather strap everytime I play to make sure they aren't loose. I don't want to drop Flame Koa Essence! Michael
essenceman
Member
Username: essenceman

Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post

Terry,
I stand corrected!
Rob
terryc
Advanced Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 222
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:36 am:   Edit Post

Bassdr - what a brilliant idea, I am off to the fastners suppliers to get some and do the same, maybe that could be a standard fitment for all Alembics and stop us putting cocktail sticks & matches in the holes
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5357
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 7:15 am:   Edit Post

Thanks Bradley!
newuser
Junior
Username: newuser

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 5:45 am:   Edit Post

Hey Bradley, care to share the dimensions of your threaded inserts? Thread count? Source?

E-Z LOK makes them and I've ordered some 1/4"s from www.barnhillbolt.com (6-32 and 8-32 which is what they have). Will search for bolts when the inserts arrive. Schaller inner diameter is 1/8", but can be drilled a little larger (I've done this on an Gibson Tobias bass before as its OEM screws had a larger diameter than the Schallers).

Alembic has a source for even smaller ones as used for truss rod and control plates, but I found nothing that small on the net.

Thanks in advance!
newuser
Junior
Username: newuser

Post Number: 37
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 4:29 pm:   Edit Post

So the inserts showed up and just in time as this morning I was able to pull the Schaller stub and wood screw out with no effort. The 6-32s are the way to go. Since the bass has a Rogue body shape I had to get a drill that can swivel. Then I took a practice run on a scrap of wood. Next I drilled the 1/4" hole for the insert.

Be sure to read Mica's post in the FAQ: (Information Related to All Instruments) Installing threaded inserts

Carefully insert the insert ;)

I chose not to use Mica's method. I wanted a 'fix' that can be removed w/o drilling an even larger hole (although I imagine you could use a tap and dye set to remove inserts installed the right way). So instead I carefully worked an insert 3/4 of the way in, then backed it out and disposed of it. You guessed it, as careful as I was the slots started to lift and tear. The second insert went all the way in and a little more as per E-Z LOK's instructions (1/16" below the surface).

I threaded a small lock washer, then the Schaller stub, then a 1/4" nylon plumbing washer and screwed it all up. Hoorah! All is now well.

For the heck of it I used a Q-tip to SPARINGLY put a little ProLink chain lube (a "dry" lube for bicycle chains) on the stub and the U shaped channel. If you try this please be careful, the fumes are not pleasant, I don't think it would do the finish any good (when applying to chains I try not to let it drip on my tires as from experience I believe it causes the kevlar bead to fail prematurely), and you really don't want it to get on the fingerboard or your strap.

Check list:
Brass Threaded inserts @ 6-32s
steel bolts 6-32
1/4" drill bit, swivel head drill if working on Rogue shaped basses
right angle ratching screw drivers if working on Rogue shaped basses
tiny lock washers
1/4" nylon washer

Pics done with cellphone-cam, sorry.


Drill and Bass
Drill and Bass

First insert
First Insert

right angle ratching screw driver
Right angle ratching screw driver

Inserted
Inserted

Constituent parts
Constituent parts

Done!
Done!
newuser
Junior
Username: newuser

Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 4:35 pm:   Edit Post

Oops! That should read "ratcheting" not "ratching".
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5391
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit Post

With pictures!
xlrogue6
Intermediate Member
Username: xlrogue6

Post Number: 129
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post

I just did the low tech fix on the upper button on my fretted Rogue, this time using plastic epoxy.(I've tried numerous adhesives to hold the dowels in place, best results so far from standard epoxy, which lasted a couple of years.) I'll try Dan's method the next time things loosen up. Good to know there's another 6 string Alembic playing cyclist on the board. Personally, I like Finish Line on my chains...
valvil
Moderator
Username: valvil

Post Number: 1030
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 11:46 pm:   Edit Post

I just found a new (to me) type of straplock that I really like. Easiest by far to install on a strap and very secure, I'd say way better and safer than Schaller or Dunlop, and better looking and reasonably priced to boot.

Zeppelinn ( yes 2 'n's ) is the name of the brand. Couldn't find a website for them but here's a link to a store that carries them.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--MUPZSL600

Similar concept to the Dunlop but has a different way of mounting on the strap; also the release happens when you pull on the straplock between the strap and the body of the instrument, so there's no chance of accidentally releasing it. The screw that secures the part that goes on the strap is long and if for some reason it starts loosening, you can rest easy, there's no way you won't notice it ages before it happens.

Highly recommended.


Valentino
georgie_boy
Advanced Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 278
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 8:14 am:   Edit Post

I've been using the Schallers for years now.
When I got my Series 1 some 7 years ago, all I did was remove the Alembic studs, fit the Shallers to the strap, and insert the ORIGINAL screw back into the body of the guitar, with the new strap locks------------so simple!
Never had a problem.
I do however, like most people, check that the nut on the strap is good and secure.

G
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 1248
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post

I'm another one in the Schaller camp. I have them on two basses and a guitar. The only issue I have is the strap holes tend to be smaller that the threaded lock post and have to be trimmed. More a nuisence than a problem.
jet_powers
Advanced Member
Username: jet_powers

Post Number: 338
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post

The only time I have a problem with the Schallers is when using my Exploiter. The rounded thingy you grab to release it sticks into my gut. So I just remove it when playing that bass....

JP
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 1280
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 1:33 am:   Edit Post

Sam. Smaller strap holes are a blessing with the Schallers. It means, with a bit of effort, you can screw the threaded post into the strap before fastening the nut on. Gives a little extra security - I'm using Levy's straps. So far I've never had a nut loosen but I've taken the precaution of adding a drop of glue to the screws on the basses.

Graeme
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 1250
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 7:19 am:   Edit Post

You are right with that, Graeme. I use Planet Waves except on my Thumb Bass. I use a Comfort Strapp to counteract the neck dive. I've had no problems with nuts loosening either. Of course my basses don't go through the rigors of gigging.

Sam
82daion
Member
Username: 82daion

Post Number: 67
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post

I've used Schallers for some time, and have always had good luck with them, as long as I make sure the nuts on the strap pieces are tight.

I've got a set waiting for my Series I when it comes in.
haddimudd
Advanced Member
Username: haddimudd

Post Number: 212
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 7:18 am:   Edit Post

Valentino, thanks for that link!

I have regular problems with the Schallers on my doubleneck. Maybe they can't handle the extra weight?

The problem in my case lies not with screws or nuts but the locking parts:

When the strap pulls, it usually orients the lock into a position in which the opening of the slide turns to face downwards, towards where the bass will be able to escape. Only a bit of extra weight/pulling is required and the lock will slide off its counterpart. It seems like the two connecting parts don't have a sufficiently tight grip at each other. I can't see any adjustments for that particular issue.

I wish they would not slide on sideways but rather connect from the front. It seems like the Zeppelinn version works that way. I am curious to check them out...

Hartmut
byoung
Senior Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 740
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post

Hartmut,

I installed a pair last night. I think that you will like them-- they are very sturdy, and definitely seem failsafe. I spent some time fiddling with them, and they have a very satisfying "click" when they seat.

One thing, though-- I would not suggest installing them with the screws that they come with (they are substandard). Install them with the Alembic screws (like everything Alembic, they're over-spec'd). You will need to trim some of the head to make them fit, but well worth the hassle.

I did mine with a disc sander attached to my drill. Took just a couple of minutes.

If I remember, I'll try to post some pictures of them installed on the Epic.
byoung
Senior Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 742
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 4:15 pm:   Edit Post

Pictures:

straplock
straplock2

Bradley

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