| Author | Message | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hello Friends , I'm actually looking to start a new rig configuration with an all-tube preamp...of course , " our " Alembic F 1 x " came first to my mind ...i would also know if any of you have other experience on other brands with a full and rich pure and all-tube preamp or amp ? ... Tkx a lot ! Alain ...from Belgium... | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2073 Registered: 2-2006 |
I thought the F1X is a hybrid. Tube/solid-state pre-amp. Either way it's a great pre-amp. I have one in my rig and it gives a rich warm tone tone and retains some great punch. OO | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 560 Registered: 9-2002 |
The Demeter VTB201s is good. Ive had one for years...very clean and transparent...but if I had it to do over again Id get an F2B. | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 244 Registered: 10-2004 |
Tkx for comments , ...i'm no expert , but the F2B has all the same features than the F1X , but in stereo , am i correct ? I also heard about Aguilar and the new Ashdown all-tubes head...but never tried one of these , i actually plays on a Ebs Fafner head , that has some problems now due to 4 years of intensive rehearsal , live gigs and ...road of course... Alain | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 2095 Registered: 6-2002 |
From the descriptions, the single-channel F-1X has a cross-over and a deep switch, both of which are missing on the dual-channel F-2B. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3533 Registered: 7-2004 |
I believe the F-1X has an effects loop while the F-2B doesn't. Bill, tgo | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2078 Registered: 2-2006 |
YEP, my F1-X has a deep switch, cross over, effects loops and a XLR direct out as well as a bright switch (which I think the F-2B has). OO | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2079 Registered: 2-2006 |
While we're on the subject, I was reading through the manual for my Basspod Live and found this. Is this accurate? Jim Furman designed the F-2B?  OO | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 7567 Registered: 5-2002 |
The circuitry in the F-1X and F-2B are not the same, and do not sound the same. You can read about them here. Basically, the F-1X has a single tube stage, and the F-2B has two tube stages. In the F-1X, the preamp's gain is provided by one side of a 12AX7, then come the tone and volume controls, and then a solid state circuit restores the signal to drive the output jack. In the F-2X, after the tone and volume controls, instead of the solid state circuit, the signal is restored by a second tube stage to drive the output jack. To my ears, the difference is that the F-1X is cleaner, and the F-2B is "tubier". I think both of them are great preamps. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2080 Registered: 2-2006 |
So for a true ALL tube pre-amp you would want the F-2B correct? OO | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 7568 Registered: 5-2002 |
Olie; I don't really know what "all tube" means. Jim Furman did work with the Grateful Dead and with Alembic, as did a lot of people. In a not completely unrelated vein, you may find this thread to be of some interest. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 2082 Registered: 2-2006 |
Thanks Dave, that's some interesting and technical stuff in that thread. Some over my head. Alain, you may check out Mesa Boogie. I've never really played through any of their gear but they are mostly tube amps. Flip can probably add a little insite here. OO | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2173 Registered: 3-2004 |
I know of bass preamps out there that use as many as five tubes. Not only is the input gain controlled by tube, but so, I believe, are the boosts associated with the EQ controls. That's my definition of an "all-tube" preamp. Now, whether those additional tubes do anything to improve the tone is subjective. Everyone has a tone palette they are looking for, and the guts of the preamp shouldn't matter as much as the tone coming out. If you search around here, you'll find other preamp discussions where we talk about some selection issues and using something like a line 6 pod vs a "real" tube preamp. They're just hitting the streets now, and are really pricey, but I'm hearing good things about the Roland VB-99. -bob | ||
| briant
Advanced Member Username: briant Post Number: 266 Registered: 12-2004 |
All tube preamp? Aguilar DB 680 - ten tube stages of tubey tube goodness. I have an F-1X as well. I use it for different things than the DB 680. To me the F-1X has a more 60's sort of vibe going on. | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 245 Registered: 10-2004 |
...as the db 680 isn't produce anymore , i looked at the db 750...seems to be a real nice piece of tone maker !!! ...the price is really high as well...will i hear the difference compared with my Fafner ebs head ? Alain | ||
| 12stringwilson
Junior Username: 12stringwilson Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2008 |
AMPEG SVT You can find a used one from the 70's or 80's for a decent price. I own tow 70's models and nothing sounds sweeter to me. | ||
| 12stringwilson
Junior Username: 12stringwilson Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2008 |
AMPEG SVT You can find a used one from the 70's or 80's for a decent price. I own two 70's models and nothing sounds sweeter to me. I run them thru a cab w/ two 15"s and a cab with eight 10"s. Knocked 4 painting off my walls this weekend getting carried away at the house. lol | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2179 Registered: 3-2004 |
The preamp version of the SVT would be any of the SVP-XXX models. I know there was an SVP-CL (Classic), an SVP-Pro and maybe one other model. Personally, I love the tone of the F-1X for purity and punch, but I mostly use the digital modeling stuff live for versatility and quick tone changes. I might be looking for more tubes if I weren't playing an Alembic bass, or maybe even an Alembic lacking dense neck woods. That just doesn't seem the right thing to do with all that inherent bass tone. It's just too sweet to muddy up. For a 100% tube rig, there are a handful of oldies out there that really get the job done. The SVT is said to have a limited tone palette, but is brilliant at what it does. The Boogie 400+ is called "too modern" by those who aren't into it, and loved by those who are. Seems like the opposite end of the tube spectrum from the SVT. The earlier Boogie 400, on the other hand, is well loved for buttery warmth and is somehow different in tone from the replacement (this is my personal favorite of those I have played, and it makes even a $50 bass sound great). The Sunn/Fender has a great rep for power and more versatility, and a lot of people also like the old Peavey Classic 400. Newer stuff is also out there, including the Traynor YBA-200 head which gets great marks for usability and reasonable weight. Peavey has some new models showing up on their lists as well, but I've heard very little about them. Some of these drop to the 200 watt range, which seems like it should be fine for just about any purpose. Of course, there are also a handful of boutique-class heads. You know, the ones that start in the $2K range. I can't say I've had any direct experience with these, so you're on your own if you want to get the cost of your rig to rival the cost of an Alembic. No one ever asked what you're looking for in a rig. Is it about imposing size? Tone and portability? Recording? Live use with or without house support? Always good to have an idea of what someone is really looking for before throwing out too much advice... -bob | ||
| terrace
New Username: terrace Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2008 |
Just today I picked up my GK Fusion 550 which I originally ordered in early 2006.It's still in the box so I can't yet comment about it but it has 3 - 12AX7 tubes which drive the preamp & EQ. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 7605 Registered: 5-2002 |
A three year wait? The motorized knobs sound interesting. Let us know what you think. | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 247 Registered: 10-2004 |
I tried the aguilar db-750 head ! ...waowwww...what a sound ! Really fantastic ! ...and so simple to use : plug and play : i think my choice is made ! ...is someone using this amp here ? Alain | ||
| briant
Advanced Member Username: briant Post Number: 272 Registered: 12-2004 |
The DB 750 is nice. If I wasn't a preamp whore I probably would have purchased one instead of picking up the used DB 680. The DB 680 has slightly more options if you're into twisting knobs - truth be told I normally keep everything at 12 o'clock, plug in, and go. You can still find DB 680's used. You can also get to an "all tube" configuration if you hunt down a used DB 728 - this was the power amp that Aguilar originally intended to be paired with the DB 680. It is 400W of all tube goodness. I played through that setup a long time ago. It was sonic heaven. "I know there was an SVP-CL (Classic), " I have one of these as well. It does a fine job of making the "real" SVT sound go without all the weight. But it isn't quite the same. I dig it. I use it from time to time. But it will never replace an SVT Classic or one of the vintage jobs from the 70's. | ||
| bassman4
New Username: bassman4 Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2009 |
Hey Gang! I use an Eden Navigator Pre...great tone and a killer DI output too...Pretty much just set it all to "flat" and go for it! EDEN WP100 NAVIGATOR The Eden WP100 preamp features a tube input stage, dbx type compression with variable threshold and rate controls, tube character control, enhance control, the famous Eden semi-parametric eq, front panel D.I. output control, mono pre-eq loop, stereo post-eq loop, side-chain loop with front panel blend pot, variable crossover, stereo led output meters, tuner out, a set of stereo and mono XLR outputs, and a defeatable limiter. The front panel switches that defeat the compressor, enhance, mute, and turbo boost are duplicated on a lighted footswitch that connects via a standard, easily replaceable midi cable. $1,099.90 WP100 SPECS Distortion <.01% Frequency Response 10Hz - 20KHz ±2dB Headroom N/A Dimensions 17"w x 3.5"h x 12"d Weight 12 LBS | ||
| djmckaytx
New Username: djmckaytx Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2007 |
I am using a late 60's/early 70's blue line SVT with an Ampeg 610HLF cabinet. Have used lots of others, both tube and solid state...but this is the real deal if you want the tone. Depending on your playing style (and especially your Alembic), it doesn't have to be a one dimensional amp -- but it will be if all you want is tube power and tube tone. YES, it weighs a ton. YES, they can be finicky and YES, if you don't know how to set them up maintenance can be expensive. But there's a reason why many of the best won't have anything else. To each his own amp...but after 30 years of playing this is it for me. Here's more info on it (with pics) and it's (famous) previous owner. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408788&highlight=rachel+bolan | ||
| 0vid
Intermediate Member Username: 0vid Post Number: 156 Registered: 4-2003 |
I have the F-1X in my main rack, and I like it for live work as I use the crossover. It used to be in the studio. In the studio I use an early VTBP 201 which has been my main studio preamp for years now. To me the difference between the VTBP and the F-1X is not a lot, if you play it flat but when you start to use the EQ the differences become more apparent. I also have a Read purity, which is the 'tubiest' of the lot. My only grouse with the Read is that it has a tube driven DI, which is theoretically a nice marketing idea, but sonically can result in two distinct tones - i.e. you are not necessarily sending via XLR to board, what you have in your normal 1/4" line out. That is the case with the Read; the XLR is much thinner (by far) than the 1/4" line out in tone. The Read has very strong output, and the EQ is solid state but pretty good. I've had the Trace V type preamp, which was nice but I wasn't using it anymore and so I sold it on. It has a nice mid shift if you need it, but it wasn't to me as good as either the F-1X or the Demeter, or the Read. Live, I use the F-1X all the time and I patch a parametric EQ to tame certain basses, the F-1X stays 'flat'. I also have a Rane compressor (DC24) which I use very occasionally. It is the most versatile preamp I have and never lets me down. One time I had two F-1Xs, but sold one to pick up the rare Read purity. Jack Read no longer makes instruments or preamps commercially, he now works for a big name corp making expensive pay through the bose, oh sorry nose, speakers using cheap multiple drivers, | ||
| dean_m
Senior Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 442 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Gents, Ampeg did make a couple of different 1 rack space, all tube, preamps. The first was the SVTIIP which turned into the SVP-PRO. Basically the preamp only version of the SVT III and the current SVT 3 PRO. Then Ampeg then made the SVP-CL which was supposed to reproduce the same signal path as the now current SVT-VRs preamp. As of now Ampeg does not offer a stand alone preamp so buy as many F-1Xs and F2Bs as you can. | ||
| llobsterbass
Junior Username: llobsterbass Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2004 |
second that vote for the Eden Navigator. clean, tons of headroom, sweet tube tone which can be adjusted to taste. It's got enough tone options to do anything, but sounds amazing just flat. | ||
| bassman4
New Username: bassman4 Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2009 |
I hear you LLobsterbass! I've got the sound guys telling me they "don't have to change a thing with my DI feed; just adjust the volume in the mix"...Of course that's because they also get to hear that clarity and tone from the Eden 210XST / 212XLT Cab combination I like to use on stage...plenty of Punch and Bottom from the XST cab, and plenty of clarity and articulation from the 212XLT's...I am loving life right now with the new Essence (Europa)5-string! | ||
| benson_murrensun
Intermediate Member Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2007 |
Ampeg made a 1-space tube preamp with Billy Sheehan's name on it, the SVP-BSP. I have had good luck and sounds with my Yamaha PB-1 preamp. It'a all solid state, and I'm sure it doesn't compare to the higher-end tube stuff; but you can find them used for $100 sometimes. Incidentally, I also have the guitar version of the Yamaha preamp, I can't remember the model; it is 1-space as well and actually has an Accutronics spring reverb inside. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2227 Registered: 3-2004 |
That PB-1 used to be a standard for a great preamp cheap. They were $100 on the used market back in the 80s. I haven't seen one under $250 more recently, but you never know. They did have a good basic tone and the shaping was pretty advanced relative to what most bass amps could do at the time. | ||
| dean_m
Senior Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 443 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Benson, Yep... you are correct about the BSP too. I forgot that one. Although not really as big of a seller as the PRO and CL it was still a great preamp for certain things. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 413 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've been testing a prototype of Brad Sarno's SMS Classic. I've only had it for a few gigs, but so far it's been great. It comes with reverb built in so that if you want to use it for guitar (its principle market, I would imagine), it's all there. I really like it. It's a bit more smooth and hifi sounding than my F2B and I haven't had a chance to directly compare it to my F1X (which is also a prototype, so I don't know how close to the production versions that one is). The Classic is very reasonably priced and both my guitarist and keyboard player are interested in checking it out for their rigs as well. Brad's been talking to someone who's building powered speaker cabinets that will integrate into a 400 watts combo with the preamp. His website is http://www.sarnomusicsolutions.com/products/smsclassic.html and if you want to take it to a whole 'nother level, look at his Revelation preamp. It's got a lot of great options. Brad is a very cool guy and is very willing to work with people in finding their sound. He's also very influenced by the Alembic preamps and their ethic of excellence. If you get in touch, tell him I sent you his way! Edwin | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 385 Registered: 11-2006 |
ok je t'ai reconnu !! :o)) mon expérience personnelle: F2-B en 1980 et F1-X maintenant ... je resigne pour les 2 avec une préférence pour le F1-X, Autrement est sorti chez SWR le Marcus Miller, mais je ne sais pas ce qu'il vaut ... trop de potards à mon avis.... Un conseil: Alembic ! | ||
| smokinbear
New Username: smokinbear Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2008 |
Hi all ,Loving a Kern ip-777 w/ sf-2 in the fx loop into a crown macro tech 2402, the kern is like a f1-x only waaaay fatter!!!! From the crown i run a hard trucker 2x15 and a ampeg 4x10hlf. Way more than i need but how can one resist? | ||
| krystoof
Junior Username: krystoof Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2009 |
Salut, Alain Personnellement, j'utilise le preampli Groove Tube "The Brick", preampli micro avec 3 lampes ET une entrée ligne. J'en suis super content, simplissime, un seul potentiomètre de gain, et zou, Galinette, un groooos son velu et bien chaleureux! Terrible!!! Mais je ne te cache pas que je n'ai jamais essayé les preamp Alembic ( une lacune à combler, un de ces jours!!!) For our anglophone friends : Hi, Alain, I'm using theGroove microphone Tube preamp "The Brick", with three lamps inside AND a line imput. I'm really found ot it, so simple, just one gain pot and let's rock!!! Awonderful warm and fat sound! Amazing!!! But I confess I never tried Alembic preamps ( I'll have to, some day, anyway, it's my destiny ;-))) Xtof | ||
| toddharris
Junior Username: toddharris Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2008 |
I've been using my new GK Fusion 550 for about 3 weeks now and am in love - had uses a GK 700RB which is now my standby - The GK motorized A/B settings are great when I switch basses ('74 Series I and a 79 Koa Eagle BC Rich) - let's me keep separate settings and jump from one to the other with the foot switch. Loving the warmth of the tube driven EQ section - plenty of power. |
