| Author | Message | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2008 |
I'm new to Series basses, having just bought a 2003 NOS Series II (the 4-string fretted bass "Almost Twins"). My other Alembic experience is with Signature electronics. I had the bass by itself for about a week and a half before the DS-5R arrived, and everything worked as expected, using just the batteries (obviously not the LEDs) and a regular instrument cord to the amp. Both Bridge and Neck pickups worked fine, alone or both together. When I set up the DS-5R (also NOS) using the 5-pin cord from my bass and with one instrument cable from the Bass / Mono out into my amp, only one bass pickup works at a time (depending on the setting of the DS-5R Stereo / Mono switch), but not both together. When the Stereo/Mono DS-5R switch is in the "stereo" position, the neck P/U is heard, but not the bridge P/U. When the DS-5R switch is on "mono", only the bridge P/U is heard, not the neck P/U. Changing the P/U selector switch on the bass doesn't affect the situation, only the DS-5R Stereo / Mono switch does. Setting up the DS-5R with both supplied patch cords (from bass and treble outs) into a two-input amp, both P/Us work when the Stereo / Mono switch is in "stereo", but only the bridge P/U works when set to "mono". No difference in pickup effect from using the front versus back outputs. Is the DS-5R supposed to work this way in "mono" mode (ie only one pickup at a time when the 5-pin cord is used)? Seems to me that it should transmit either the neck pickup, the bridge pickup or both, depending on the bass P/U selector settings, when using "mono" mode, but as I noted, I'm new to Series basses. If it is not supposed to work this way, does anyone have any ideas about what might be causing the problem? Thanks. -Jon | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 483 Registered: 1-2008 |
Mono output on the DS-5R should give you both PUPs if your PUP selector is set for both PUPs. | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2008 |
That's what I was expecting, but not the case on this one. If bass selector is on "both", either neck or bridge output is heard depending upon the setting of the DS-5R Stereo / Mono switch. -Jon | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 984 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jon, Mike is correct, both PU's should work in the DS-5R mono setting with the bass PU selector set for both. To the best of my knowledge when running on batteries your experience is normally not the case. When using the 1/4" bass output I believe that only one PU functions. It sounds as though the electronics may have been modified (summed) to utilze the 1/4" output of the bass for both PU's when operating on batteries. I did not believe that this modification normally affects the 5-pin I/O but in your case it sounds as though it has. Maybe others with experience in the 1/4" bass output summation will have answers to what happened in the 5-pin designation. You may be able to get the wiring diagram to assist. If you can get some close-up pictures of the cavity this also may help in the analysis. Art | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 484 Registered: 1-2008 |
Yea, to get output from both PUPs with a mono instrument cord, the wiring has been altered (thus the NOS designation may not be Kosher). Check your 1/4" wiring first to see if there is a problem there (see: http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/29811.html?1152754164). | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2008 |
My impression from the FAQs was that this issue (stereo 1/4" jack so both pickups together not available on battery) was on pre-1988 Series instruments and on newer instruments, the 1/4" jack is factory wired in mono. However, as I said, I don't know much about these. I'll look at the wiring to see if I can tell if any modifications are obvious. -Jon | ||
| poor_nigel
Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2009 |
As owner of the five-string Twin, I will say that the DSR-5 and cable I received are still in the box, untouched. The set I already had work as they should with the five-string. So, if there is a glitch/mod going on, I imagine it is probably in the DS-R5 or the five-pin cable, and not your bass. All pieces are under warranty, so not a big problem if one of the three actually needs fixing. I would think you would want a spare 5-pin cable. I bought a 30 foot one from this guy: http://www.bayoucables.com/alembic-series-cables-click-options-p-117.html Quality job, and if you tell him you need it in a hurry, perhaps you won't have to wait in his backlog for too long. You could then see if it is a cable problem - though from your explanation, it would not make much sense. Congratulations on picking up the other Twin. The sound should be amazing. How do you like those knobs? I have mine posted in the Showcase as a Europa, in case you want to see more current pictures of a relative of yours. Whatever else goes on, do have fun! | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2008 |
Hi Thomas. My box and cable were also still in original box and packing. Everything appeared to actually be unplayed / unused. I'm hopeful it's the cable or box. I don't want to expose this one to another trip across the country, since it survived this one. My brand new Dragonwing had its neck snapped off by UPS in November, which is why I bought this one. Thanks for the cable link. I love the Twin. Very different sound from my DW. I actually like these knobs (appear to be quilted maple shafts, mother of pearl tops with gold dots), although I also like the ones you put on the 5-string. I had to shim them a bit as some of them were loose, but everything fine now. I'll see how they do over time. I'll post some pics in Showcase when I get time. Now, if I can just get this cable, DS-5R, P/U issue sorted out... -Jon | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Jon, Post some pics when you can. The stereo/mono part of the circuitry isn't terribly complicated so we may be able to help you solve the mystery here. Essentially, the "summing" resistors used in the bass to make the 1/4" jack mono are the same as those used inside the DS-5R (though the values may be different). The only reason there is a switch on the DS-5R is because the "bass" output jack doubles as the "mono" out. (You could have a 3rd dedicated "always mono" out using resistors and no switch.) Anyway, if you scroll down in this thread: http://www.alembic.com/club/messages/449/8044.html you will see what the inside of a stock DS-5R should look like (don't look at the second modified version). You can just make out the summing resistors which go from the switch to the "mono" out. Does NOS in this case mean New Old Stock? I've learned something. Jimmy J | ||
| pierreyves
Senior Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hi, sorry to disturb this thread, but I have a DS-5R I never used, because it's waiting for my serie II. In front of this unit, I was thinking it was output (left, right...) but they are INPUT ? output are on the back side ? If I understand, I can plug my signatures in the mono jack in front and use my 2 F1-X with the back output ? | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 985 Registered: 7-2007 |
There are 1/4" outputs on both the front and rear of the DS-5R unit. The INPUT is only through the 5-pin connector. HERE is some basic information for the DS-5R. | ||
| pierreyves
Senior Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 548 Registered: 11-2006 |
thanks  | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2008 |
Took some pics of both DS-5R and bass but haven't figured out how to resize so can't post yet. Working on it. Pics of bass wiring are hard to interpret: It's a Europa body style and both the 1/4" and 5-pin jacks are edge mounted, so it's a very tight electronics cavity. | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 989 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jon, If you send the pictures to the email in my profile I will gladly resize and post them for you. Cheers, Art (Message edited by artswork99 on February 22, 2010) | ||
| slawie
Intermediate Member Username: slawie Post Number: 167 Registered: 8-2002 |
If you paste a picture into a Word document. Right click on the picture and select Format Picture.... in the new window Click on the "size" tab in the window select Lock aspect ratio. Reduce the size (either scale or size) Click on the "Picture" tab, click on the "Compress" button. Make your adjustments then save the document. You will be able to paste the modified picture from this document. i.e. right click copy then paste. slawie | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2008 |
Art, I just sent you 4 photos. Thanks for your help. I'll try to learn how to do this. -Jon | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 990 Registered: 7-2007 |
Note from Jon: This is the best image I could get of the 5-pin connector wiring. The 1/4" jack is just above, where the tip of the pencil is pointing. There is one brown "orphan" wire from the 1/4" jack (at the pencil tip, just above the bright yellow wire) that just stops. There is also a brown wire on the ribbon connector that stops at about the same length, but I don't know if that is coincidence, design or wire failure. At any rate the 1/4" jack works fine.     (Message edited by artswork99 on February 23, 2010) | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 155 Registered: 8-2008 |
Art, thanks for relaying the pics. Here's my theory (a-hem!)... The unused wire on the bass's internal ribbon cable is normal although I can't really explain (nor see in the picture) your other "orphan". Jon, can you confirm for us that the DS-5R works correctly in stereo mode? As in, the neck PU comes out of the bass jack and the bridge PU out of the treble jack? If that's true then I think we can say your bass and cables are fine. Furthermore, the shot of the DS-5R shows the amazingly solid Alembic factory wiring we know and love with the possible exception of the resistor running from the 1/4" jack to the switch. (Art, are you able to zoom to the switch/resistor/jack for us?) That resistor should at least have insulated leads... And it needs to be the same value as the other resistor clinging to the side of the switch or it won't sum properly. Replacing that resistor with a lessor value could lead to your symptoms.... Just a theory! Jimmy J (Message edited by jimmyj on February 23, 2010) | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 991 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jimmy, Thanks for bringing that up... Good eye, you are so correct in seeing that there is no insulation on that resistor which would be so unlike Alembic. I did a re-solder on my 5-pin connector over the weekend and they even insulate the ground wires within the connector. Even the bends on that resistor look unlike their work.  | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 156 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yes, very odd. Except for the missing insulation it all looks correct and not obviously disturbed. The two resistors even look like the same components but we can't read the values. Mismatched values is still my guess... Jimmy J | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 25 Registered: 12-2008 |
Jimmy, the I think the answer to your question is yes, although I didn't use two different amps to check. When the DS-5R is used with the two patch cords, both into an amplifier input, and the DS-5R Stereo / Mono switch is in "stereo", both neck and bridge pickups are heard through the amp, as selected by the bass P/U selector switch: Neck, both or bridge. Using the same setup, but then flipping the Stereo / Mono switch to "mono", only the bridge "treble" pickup comes through the amp. In this condition, moving the bass selector switch to neck pickup results in no sound. Although I can't do it tonight, I could try the experiment again tomorrow night using separate amps to ensure that there is complete separation between the neck / bass and bridge / treble outputs. I ran the the patch into two inputs on the same amp, [one input is damped by 15db, so I could tell which DS-5R output was operational due to the volume difference]. However, my notes show that either the bridge or neck was available from the DS-5R bass / mono output (depending upon bass selector switch) while only the bridge was available from the treble output jack. Since it was about a week ago when I did the test and my original note of "only neck" was coming from the DS-5R bass output was crossed out and replaced with "either bridge or neck", I'm now not sure and think I need to repeat and confirm before saying definitively. -Jon | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 157 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Jon, OK, things may still be alright... When you set the DS-5R's switch to mono you should only use the single "bass" or "mono" output jack leaving the "treble" jack(s) disconnected. So the test is, in stereo, connect a single cable from the "treble" output to your amp's input, you should hear only the bridge pickup in two of the four positions of the bass selector switch. Now (turn the amp down) move that single cable to the "bass" output (turn the amp back up) and you should hear only the neck pickup in two selector switch positions. Now, while still connected that way just flip the switch to mono and the sound from both pickups should be there. Let us know! Jimmy J | ||
| pacificshine
Junior Username: pacificshine Post Number: 38 Registered: 7-2008 |
Jon, If you validate that everything works correctly in “Stereo” mode on the power supply, then I think from the description of the symptoms it appears that you have a bad bridge P/U summing resistor or an open circuit (switch contact?) when the switch is set to "Mono", so the result is that only the bridge P/U signal passes through the summing circuit. I checked the DS5 / DS-5R schematic and it confirms that in "Stereo" mode the two P/U signals pass individually through the Mono/Stereo switch and on to their respective 1/4" jacks and the resistors are not in the circuit. The resistors in the schematic are 20 KOhm but other similar values should also work OK. I can't tell from the photos what value these resistors are but if you have access to a multimeter you should be able to solve this mystery. Also, when the switch is in "Mono" and no patch cords are plugged into the 1/4" jacks, you should be able to validate this resistance by measuring from the “Mono” out ¼” jack tip to its two corresponding 5 Pin jack contacts: From "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#2 and also from "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#3 on the 5 pin jack. Both resistances should be the same or around 20K. | ||
| poor_nigel
Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2009 |
After seeing the picture of the funky resistor, I decided to panic and open mine and check it out. Behold! I did not get the same results as Jon. I get lights on the unit and LEDS, but no sound what-so-ever. No configuration or switching produces any sound. They should have different problems, as they are not even made with the same components.   | ||
| poor_nigel
Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2009 |
I was thinking of offering Jon my spare and I would just wait for the repaired one from Alembic to show. I have an extra, no problem - Wrong answer. I sure am glad I did not, or who knows when he would get to play his bass as it was intended to be heard. What are the chances of two out of three DS-5R's being glitched from the same batch sold to a single client? I will say that upon closer examination of the box mine came in, it was opened and sealed again. The unit looks untouched. So I do not think it has been tampered with. There are points to the five-string bass where I think quality was dropped and I was going to just bring the bass to Santa Rosa this fall and I am sure it would get taken care of. I guess I will be bring this along with it. Are these bad luck basses? I wonder if the third unit works? I do not have any real reason to be peeved right now (though I obviously am), as I do have a working one. However, after getting stuck with a $550 shipping fee for the bass and this unit (which took a well over a month to get here), I am in no mood to pay a penny more in shipping to get what I paid good money for. I will be very curious to see how Jon's unit works out. I hope it is something simple and he is up and running properly soon. | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 158 Registered: 8-2008 |
Thomas, Check to make sure that the ground wire is properly connected to the 5-pin jack (right side of your top pic). I believe it should be soldered to the chassis ground lug of the jack and then continue from there to pin-1. Your bass LEDs would light if they saw the + and - voltage but you would get no audio without proper ground. Just a guess. Jimmy J | ||
| poor_nigel
Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2009 |
Hey Jimmy: Since it is just an audio signal problem, I can track it down with a multimeter. I'm sure you're right that it is a bad ground. I was actually more upset by the fact that I was using my vacation time to mess with it than the fact it is not functioning. My job is extremely stressful, so I really value what little vacation time I get. I still cannot get over the odds of two units from the same buy being glitched. Alembic electronics are very expensive, but they are also very reliable - go figure . . . | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2008 |
This gets more and more strange. I'll try some of the posted suggestions tonight and/or tomorrow and report back. I've got a multimeter but anything beyond measuring resistance is outside my competency... | ||
| pacificshine
Junior Username: pacificshine Post Number: 39 Registered: 7-2008 |
Jon, Here a simple experiment you can do that will tell you whether you have an open circuit in the Neck P/U signal path in “Mono” mode on the power supply (you can actually do this without pulling the unit out of its rack or opening the case): 1)Turn power to DS-5R off (or unplug from AC) 2)Connect a mono 1/4" cord to “Mono Out” on DS-5R. Leave other end open. 3)Connect your 5 pin cable to DR-5R. Leave other end open. 4)Put DS-5R switch on “Mono” 5)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 3 on 5 pin connector (female end) 6)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 2 on 5 pin connector (female end) 7)Both readings should be the same (about 20 K Ohm). If you put the DS-R5 switch in “Stereo” mode and perform the same test you’ll see that the resistance drops to zero when you measure from ¼” plug tip to pin 2 on the 5 pin connector. If you move your ¼” plug to the Treble jack on the DS-5R you’ll see the same zero resistance if you use pin 3 on 5 pin connector (bridge P/U output). The ground wiring on the 5 conductor cable uses the shield (braided jacket) that connects both to the metal body of the plugs and also to pin 1. That can also be verified with a multimeter. I once went through all these tests when I suspected something was wrong with an older DS-5 but turned it out to be an operator error. Let us know how it goes. If the system works in stereo mode then you know the 5 pin cable is good and it must be the summing circuit. Also, a bad ground should affect both channels. --Alan | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 661 Registered: 10-2006 |
Jon, if I'm following all this correctly, you're plugging both DS5-R outputs to your amp & toggling between stereo & mono. Stereo works fine, but mono does not. If this is the case, the first test you need to run is unplug from the treble jack, switch to mono, & see what happens. This is how it's supposed to work, so if you don't get both p/ups that way, then start looking for an actual problem. Peter | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2008 |
Jimmy and Peter, I did try just the bass/mono out (single line) to amp with 5-pin into the DS-5R initially. When that didn't work correctly (see first post) I then tried the dual patch into two inputs (simulating stereo amp). To followup Jimmy's note 157, I again tonight tried the both the single line out and double line out. Clarifying my earlier response, when using both patch cords into two amp inputs, the neck comes only from the bass output; the bridge comes only from the treble out, when the DS-5R is in stereo mode. Leaving all connections the same, switching to mono mode results in only the bridge pickup coming through the amp via the treble DS-5R output. No sound from neck pickup. When connecting the DS-5R to the amp only via the Bass / mono output results in only neck pickup heard when in stereo mode and only the bridge pickup heard when in mono mode. Measuring the resistor between the stereo/mono switch and the treble out jack yields 35,000 ohms. I'll next try measuring the resistance via the 5-pin, although I'm guessing which pin is #1 or #2. I'll assume #3 is the one in the middle... Thanks so much for all the help. I really appreciate the support from the club, particularly Art and Thomas with the photo help. More later. -Jon | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2008 |
Duh! I just saw the pin numbers in the light. That makes it Much Easier. | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2008 |
Alan: Measuring per your first post - "when the switch is in "Mono" and no patch cords are plugged into the 1/4" jacks, you should be able to validate this resistance by measuring from the “Mono” out ¼” jack tip to its two corresponding 5 Pin jack contacts: From "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#2 [mine measured 35,000 ohms] and also from "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#3 [mine measured 35,000 ohms] on the 5 pin jack [on the DS-5R]." From your second post (with the 5-pin cable connected and patch cord connected to appropriate output): "2)Connect a mono 1/4" cord to “Mono Out” on DS-5R. Leave other end open. 3)Connect your 5 pin cable to DR-5R. Leave other end open. 4)Put DS-5R switch on “Mono” 5)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 3 on 5 pin connector (female end) -- mine is 35,000 ohms 6)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 2 on 5 pin connector (female end) --mine is 0 ohms 7)If you put the DS-R5 switch in “Stereo” mode and perform the same test you’ll see that the resistance drops to zero [mine is 16,000 ohms] when you measure from ¼” plug tip to pin 2 on the 5 pin connector. If you move your ¼” plug to the Treble jack on the DS-5R you’ll see the same zero resistance [again, mine is 16,000 ohms] if you use pin 3 on 5 pin connector." So, it seems that my measurements are different than your note indicated should be present, but can you tell what that tells us? Bad 5-pin cable, something with the DS-5R, something else? -Jon | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 992 Registered: 7-2007 |
So cool to get this kind of assistance through our community! Jon, thanks for the kind note and you're quite welcome. I think that we're close to the solution. | ||
| pacificshine
Junior Username: pacificshine Post Number: 40 Registered: 7-2008 |
Jon, Your measurements don’t seem to be consistent with your symptoms. Also, the two sets of measurements should agree, but you report different results (whether you measure inside the case or through outside cords you should get the same results). I just verified these measurements while my power supply was in the rack and the results were according to the schematic. Try to re-perform the second set of measurements and see if the results are different (they should confirm the symptoms). Also check and see that the two orange wires going to the switch are not shorted, which would explain your zero Ohm resistance in “Mono” mode between the neck P/U wire and the mono jack (as if its summing resistor didn’t exist). Also make sure the two orange wires are connected to the bottom and center pins of the switch (hard to see from the picture). An open resistor (the one connected directly on the switch) would explain the symptoms but your measurements suggest otherwise, so the mystery continues. Let me know what you find out. --Alan | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 160 Registered: 8-2008 |
the plot thickens... Jon, thanks for taking those measurements but I agree with Alan that the results are still inconclusive. I feel we're getting closer though. We're surrounding it! The first part of your answer, testing inside the DS-5R (power disconnected please!) and resulting in the same resistance value from pin-2 and pin-3 to the mono jack in mono mode - indicates that the summing circuit is functioning correctly. As a side note, if you checked the resistance between pin-2 and pin-3 the result should be double the individual readings. However, your second set of results, with cables, does not concur with the above and generates a few more questions... #1: in step 6 above you say "0 ohms". Do you mean the ohmmeter swung all the way UP (to zero) or that it did not move at all (infinite ohms / open circuit)? #2. How is the battery in your ohmmeter? If you touch the meter's two test probes together does it read 16k ohms? Here's why I ask: in the photo you posted above (via Art) we can clearly see the violet wire goes from pin-3 directly to the "Treble" 1/4" jack (and then continues to the corresponding jack on the rear panel). The resistor network happens after that direct connection so pin-3 to the "Treble" jack must be zero ohms - or the same reading as when you touch the two test probes together... #2.5 in step 7 above you have identical readings in "Stereo" mode from pin-2 to the "Bass" / "Mono" 1/4" jack and from pin-3 to the "Treble" 1/4" jack. That indicates all is well again and we're back to our state of confusion... So if the summing circuit is correct in part one, and stereo mode is correct in step 7, then the dang thing should all be working as advertised... It is rare for one of these switches to fail but it is possible and it may be intermittent - be sure to snap it back and forth several times while testing. This feels strangely like doing computer tech support for my relatives, almost more difficult to explain than anything. Wish we had some kind of screen sharing so we could all remotely poke at the gear in question. Ha! Hang in there Jon, we'll figure it out. (Message edited by jimmyj on February 24, 2010) | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2008 |
I replaced the battery and tried the tests again this morning (after 2 cups of coffee) and got different results. The battery was indeed weak. I appreciate your patience; I'm at the limit of my (non-existent) electronics knowledge. Here are the results with the new battery; I'm not sure why the difference on one measurement - probably operator error as someone mentioned. "when the switch is in "Mono" and no patch cords are plugged into the 1/4" jacks, you should be able to validate this resistance by measuring from the “Mono” out ¼” jack tip to its two corresponding 5 Pin jack contacts: From "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#2 [ no movement - infinite ohms] and also from "Mono" / "Neck Out" to Pin#3 [ 20K ohms] on the 5 pin jack [on the DS-5R]." From your second post (with the 5-pin cable connected and patch cord connected to appropriate output): "2)Connect a mono 1/4" cord to “Mono Out” on DS-5R. Leave other end open. 3)Connect your 5 pin cable to DR-5R. Leave other end open. 4)Put DS-5R switch on “Mono” 5)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 3 on 5 pin connector (female end) -- 20K ohms 6)Measure resistance from tip of ¼” plug to pin 2 on 5 pin connector (female end) --mine shows no movement / infinite ohms 7)If you put the DS-R5 switch in “Stereo” mode and perform the same test you’ll see that the resistance drops to zero [mine is now 0 ohms] when you measure from ¼” plug tip to pin 2 on the 5 pin connector. If you move your ¼” plug to the Treble jack on the DS-5R you’ll see the same zero resistance [ mine is 0 ohms] if you use pin 3 on 5 pin connector." Re-measured the resistor between the switch and the treble out. It is actually 20K as expected. Sorry for the faulty readings last night - should have checked the battery first. What a dope. It was a long day. The orange wires seem to be connected cleanly to the switch and not touching anything else. Maybe these will make more sense now. -Jon | ||
| pacificshine
Junior Username: pacificshine Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2008 |
Jon, I think you just discovered the problem. Your new set of measurements is now perfectly consistent with the symptoms. In stereo mode, there is a direct path (zero resistance) from both pickup outputs to their corresponding ¼” jack outputs and in mono mode your “Bass” (Neck) output does not make it to the Bass ¼” jack and only the bridge P/U is heard. What this means is that you either have a bad (open) 20K resistor (the one with both ends hanging on the switch), a bad switch contact (but only in mono mode, still a bad switch if this is the case), or a bad connection of that resistor. It looks like the two orange wires are OK because they work perfectly when you put the switch in stereo mode and the little exposed jumper wire connecting the two pins on the switch is OK because that passes the Bridge signal to the Mono (Bass) ¼” jack when the switch is on Mono. What you need to do next to really nail this down is to measure that resistor (on the switch) and to measure the switch contact (the set of contacts where the resistor is connected) when it is placed in “Mono”. From the middle contact to the top contact there should be zero resistance in Mono mode. Overall, there should be a 20 K Ohm resistance between the Mono jack output and pin #2 on the 5 pin connector (and right now you have an open circuit or infinite resistance). Keep up posted here at Ground Control. We will help you to successfully complete your mission. --Alan | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2008 |
Jon, Excellent work! Here is how to check what Alan said: With your newly powered ohmmeter (!!) touch the following points on the switch:  (That's the upper left and center right connections as viewed from the rear.) You should see 20k ohms between these two points regardless of the switch's position. If there is no reading, infinite ohms, the resistor has failed or become physically disconnected. If you do see 20k there then test the switch points here:  (Upper left to center left.) In Mono mode, switch down, these two points should be connected - zero resistance. If they are not then the switch has failed. Alembic's factory assembly work is stellar but there is always the chance of component failure. Let us know what you find and we'll work on helping you repair it. Jimmy J | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2008 |
Jimmy and Alan, thanks for your help. I'll check it out when I get home tonight. Special thanks to Jimmy for correctly recognizing that I need visual aids for this. Thanks! -Jon | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2008 |
Measurement of photo 1 (upper left and center right connections) reads 20K. Measurement of photo 2 (Upper left to center left, in Mono mode) reads no meter movement - infinite resistance. So, does this mean it is a bad switch? -Jon | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yep, sounds like a bad switch. How bizarre! That also explains your symptom or bridge PU only in mono mode. So we've found the fault, now we need to ask; can you solder or do you have a buddy that can make a couple connections for you? Jimmy J | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2008 |
Unfortunately, every time I've tried soldering in the last few years, it has resulted in a huge mess. Big lumps of solder and there is often loud screaming... One of my bandmates may be able to do soldering. I'll have to ask him. What switch am I looking for (and where can I get it) if he believes he is competent? I assume I could also ship it back to Alembic for re-work. I feel differently about shipping this box than I do the actual bass. It's had its one trip with UPS, and I am VERY happy it is not involved in this. Thanks, thanks, thanks again to all who helped on this. -Jon | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 6613 Registered: 6-2000 |
Jon, since it's be unused for many years, the lubrication in the switch has congealed. Using the switch about 100 times might make it work. If it does, it won't stick again with at least annual use. The contacts are gold, so it can't be the contacts, but if the lubricant crusts up, in can mechanically block the contact. The switch is a DPDT type, but these are special ordered for the exact replacement. You could get a temporary switch locally (probably with a chrome bat handle) or we could send you a new switch. But we're of course happy to have you send it in here for a warranty repair which is no charge and no charge for return shipping to you. Thomas, on yours, it's obviously not the same problem. You can elect to bring it by when you are in California (soon, right?) or send it here a head of time. Since it's under warranty, there's no charge for return shipping to you or the repair itself. Everyone else, thanks so much for jumping in and giving excellent assistance! We can fix all the power supplies | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 34 Registered: 12-2008 |
Mica, thanks for jumping in. I'll start the exercise routine tonight (just heard Bob Greene speak Tuesday night so I'm all ready to go), and will let you know what happens. That seems the simplest approach to start with. -Jon | ||
| jimmyj
Intermediate Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2008 |
Yay! Mica to the rescue! I knew pots sometimes need to be exercised (or exorcised) but didn't realize it applied to these switches too. It makes sense though, I only have to sit in one position for about an hour and I don't want to cooperate. Ha! Hopefully Jon can revitalize it. If not, send it to the Mother Ship for service! JJ | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 993 Registered: 7-2007 |
Jon, I've been out of town and getting caught up. So glad that you now have some answers. Art | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2008 |
SUCCESS!!!!! After following Mica's strict exercise regimen for the past 9 days (1200 reps to date), the switch is now behaving properly. Both pickups available in mono; one per output when in stereo. Thanks to Mica and club members for the rescue. I'm so happy. -Jon | ||
| artswork99
Senior Member Username: artswork99 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 7-2007 |
That is great!! | ||
| poor_nigel
Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2009 |
I am really glad your unit is functioning properly now, Jon. Big question - How does your ebony-necked bass sound? Is it as good as you were hoping for, or better? The ebony in my body and neck have shrunk significantly more than the maple on mine (It has thick lams of ebony in it). You can easily feel the ridges all the way up to the joint in the headstock (I do not find this bothersome). The sound of this bass, even unplugged, has been beyond my expectations. It took me over two weeks to get it setup and the neck settled in and adjusted correctly, but now that it has, it plays and sounds like no other bass I have played. The six years this bass hung on a wall my have not been so good for some of its electronics, but it added six years to aging the woods for a little better sound, in my opinion. I have always thought aged woods sound a bit better than newly build guitars. If this is not true, it does not matter. I like the looks of aged guitars better, so it is still a plus to me. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1532 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thomas, I agree with you about the aging of the wood improving the sound. Keith | ||
| jon_jackson
Junior Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 36 Registered: 12-2008 |
Thomas, I continue to be impressed with the various tones I can get from this Series bass. It is taking some time getting used to it as the single coils sound much brighter, with a little less growl and slightly more transparent than my Dragon Wing Signature (at least to my ears), especially after I put new Alembic strings on the SII. It is true that these Series basses show all the warts of one's technique. I've just had the power supply available as of this morning and, although I may be imagining it, the sound seems to be more powerful and robust versus just the batteries. As to the age of the wood and ebony lams, yes I have noticed some very minor shrinkage differences between the neck ebony lams and the maple, but not as much as you describe. I don't really notice it. Basically, I can feel it only when deliberately trying to feel it, not during play. I was tweaking the neck every few days getting the action low, but that seems to have settled in over this last week. Part of the issue was I originally put on some lightly used TI Jazz flats until the new strings came and the tension difference between those and the Alembics meant I had to continue to adjust the neck (not to mention the humidity differences between San Diego and central heat in a hard Midwest winter. All is well now as it seems to have stabilized. The body wood combination is about the same as my DW was, which is why this particular instrument caught my attention. Sustain is impressive. Hit a note, put the bass down and go grab a glass of wine and a snack, come back and it's still ringing. Seriously, the sustain lasts all day long. I do have the same gold finish issues on the bridge and tailpiece that you described on the twin 5-string, so if you find a solution, I'd love to hear about it. Not a big issue, but it is the only thing that is not perfect. All in all, I'm very happy with it. I'm still eager to get my new DW because the sound is so different between the two types of pickups / electronics and I like the body shape (built-in right arm rest), but this will definitely tide me over until Mica, et.al. have a chance to get it into production. I'll post some pictures when we get a nice day here so I can use natural light. -Jon |
