| Author | Message | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 492 Registered: 9-2004 |
Now isn't this odd. I guess imitation is the best form of flattery! http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOOGIEMAN-REPLACEMENT-PREAMP-FOR-ALEMBIC-SERIES-1-OR-2-INSTRUMENTS-NEW-UPGRADE-/330786164879?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4d0464508f | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3130 Registered: 6-2002 |
I saw that interesting posting a while ago and there are quite a few other bits of boogieman's alembic replacement gear on ebay. I did think of posting on here but since I have already committed a sin by changing the electronics in one of my basses, I didn't want to perpetuate my disloyalty, especially as I'm slowly realising the shortcomings of my conversion. :-) :-/ Jazzyvee | ||
| longhorncat
Senior Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 473 Registered: 8-2005 |
That guy will be selling Boogieman single coil replacement pickups soon. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1268 Registered: 5-2002 |
Interesting. I inquired about this board, since my Starfire can be noisy, and told him that I had a very early PF-6 and he discouraged me from purchasing it as he thought it wouldn't really be an upgrade. However, I guess someone making a Series type setup from scratch might find this useful. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 493 Registered: 9-2004 |
Seek atonement and buy another Alembic for your sins, my son!!! Me, I get entrance into 'Alembic Made-Man' status when my posts finally hit the magic 500 mark (or so I believe). I think they should change the title of 'Senior Member' at that point to something less geezer-like. How about 'divine member'? or 'endowed member'? His other actual Alembic parts seem to be priced kinda high. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3131 Registered: 6-2002 |
Maybe "Established Member" Jazzyvee | ||
| that_sustain
Junior Username: that_sustain Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2012 |
I think modding an Alembic is a huge loss, unless done out of necessity. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1271 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think they are just instruments. If modding them is what you want to do, then do it. However, 99.9999999999% the original or replacement Alembic components are going to be a superior option. Don't forget that Alembic started as the original modders. What makes modding not such a great option is that few modders can do work that surpasses their standards. Simply tossing in some EMGs hardly seems worth it, but someone comes up with some radically different idea that produces some cool results, who's to say? | ||
| that_sustain
Junior Username: that_sustain Post Number: 30 Registered: 8-2012 |
One of the reasons I financed my bass was out of competition. Columbus Ohio has some good bass players. With the right amp, I'm gonna have a better tone than all of them. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7851 Registered: 6-2000 |
A copy of PF-6B/C card an "upgrade" does not make. | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1282 Registered: 10-2006 |
At the risk of high-jacking, is Doug Edwards still playing (& still playing his 70s Alembic) around Columbus, Daniel? Peter | ||
| longhorncat
Senior Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 492 Registered: 8-2005 |
They've got the Boogieman pickups listed now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330795253256  | ||
| longhorncat
Senior Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 493 Registered: 8-2005 |
and the amp pickup combo http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330795256145  | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3148 Registered: 6-2002 |
In the the advert with the picture of the pickups on the bass it does say that " THIS SALE IS FOR TWO (2) SINGLE COIL PICK UPS AND ONE (1) HUM CANCELER DUMMY ONLY. " Just Sayin' Jazzyvee | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 498 Registered: 9-2004 |
That is so, "White"!! | ||
| longhorncat
Senior Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 494 Registered: 8-2005 |
Jazzyvee How would you describe the hum canceling pickup to someone that wasn't familiar with Alembic? I'm sure he just wants people know it doesn't carry a musical signal. If it was just a hole filler, there's no reason to have it wired up. (Message edited by longhorncat on September 17, 2012) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5227 Registered: 7-2004 |
"That is so, "White"!!" Yea, but in 20-25 years it will be off-white! lol Bill, tgo | ||
| longhorncat
Senior Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 495 Registered: 8-2005 |
Just tell people you're playing an early 80's Fender. (Message edited by longhorncat on September 17, 2012) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1293 Registered: 5-2002 |
Humcanceller pickups can be thought of as being the shared pickups that the other pickups use to create a humbucker. The coils don't have to be right next to each other to be effective. I think using the term dummy pickup is misleading because it does, in fact, carry signal. However, in this case, I would think anyone who would interested as a buyer or seller would know what's going on with them. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2630 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is there " legal infringement" actually in progress with these Boogieman so called replacement upgrades ? First a Series PF6B/C copy and now these Series I/II pickups with hum canceler. Is this without Alembic's consent ?_____ If it is,___ in my opinion it is rather rude to say the least. I think it is not very " Hip " at all ! That is my sentiment about it and my opinion and 2 cents worth. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 499 Registered: 9-2004 |
Not to be a jerk, but for instance the F-2B is pretty much a copy of a Fender preamp found in many common old Fender amps from back in the day. However, as Mica stated, these boards do not an upgrade make. Also, Bartolini has been making drop in replacements for some time of these pickups. | ||
| tmoney61092
Senior Member Username: tmoney61092 Post Number: 816 Registered: 9-2008 |
while I do feel like there may be an infringement of some type here, if you follow this link(http://alembic.com/prod/pickups.html) you'll notice that Alembic makes pickups for Gibsons, Fenders, and Rickenbackers, so you can look at that as an "upgrade" and I feel like it's the same situation as with these Boogieman parts ~Taylor | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2632 Registered: 5-2009 |
I have been aware of Alembic's production of pickups that will fit other manufacturers instruments for as long as they have been around, however I feel that in this case it's like comparing Apples to Oranges. David and Taylor , I can see your point but then I still feel that as Taylor states " While I do feel there may be a infringement of some type here" that Boogieman is " crossing the line " somewhat. The Series I /II PF6B/C circuit board mounted on a brass plate for example and Series pickups with a hum-canceler , who else in current production uses this system ? ____ It just seems wrong to me. The fact remains that if you use these "copycat" parts that you can NO LONGER claim that your instrument is 100% original Alembic. | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 233 Registered: 9-2009 |
I'm not sure if everyone has already seen Mica's response to the ebay listing but it would seem to suggest the good people at Alembic have neither provided consent nor been consulted. The response of the manufacturer says it all. Q: You're using our trademarks, that is not cool and it needs to stop. You can email me at mica@alembic.com or call me at 707-523-2611. I prefer to handle these matters directly, rather than involving third parties or even ebay. Sincerely, Mica Wickersham Thomas Alembic, Inc. Sep-04-12 A: First off, the only trademark that I know you have is for the name "Alembic" for musical instruments. If one wants to sell a dining table called Alembic , they are free to do so. You CAN NOT trademark electronic circuits , further this circuit is not the same as the 40 years old PF6 you are still offering. This board is offered as a Boogieman brand and as a replacement. However , if you have any recorded trademarks or patents (recorded before yesterday) for the circuit you claim this board imitates - please provide copies for review. Your argument is as laughable as if would Mercedes -Benz objects to GoodYear offering tires as a replacement for Mercedes-benz. Further, be advised that unless you can immediately provide documents that prove you have patents/trademarks for the above board, you are otherwise harassing me and I will contact Ebay. By the way , when you (and any other maker) started to make replacement pick ups for precision and jazz bass , did you had a OK from FENDER??????.... and last.....is business really that bad ?..... | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1393 Registered: 12-2004 |
Kinda bummed, I thought this would make an interesting upgrade for my beater fretless. But the dude sounds like he's a jerk, and doing business with jerks never, ever turns out well. Has anyone actually tried a full setup? Bradley | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 880 Registered: 4-2004 |
Printed circuit boards can be subject to copyright protection. I'm not sure if boogie man changed enough of the PF-6's nuances on the board for it to be safe.... | ||
| sjhoffma
Advanced Member Username: sjhoffma Post Number: 266 Registered: 5-2008 |
Wow, that guy sounds like an ass! As far as I'm concerned, Alembic is known just as much (if not more) for their electronic work than anything else, despite producing incredible and breathtaking woodwork as well. If someone made a bass that was essentially the same specs as a series I or II, even if the electronics were different, it would still be infringement of the company (Fernandez anyone?) What is the justification that a company's trademark work can only be limited to wooden body shapes, and not electronics? All the fender replacement bodies you see for sale, regardless of the company making them, are all either officially licensed through fender, or give credit to their trademarked "Strat" design. If someone is making replacement pickups, especially replacements for a company that is known for their electronic work, it would stand to reason they need to give the same credit where credit is due, or atleast consult the company for their approval. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1294 Registered: 5-2002 |
OK, I should be careful here because I am in the limbo between law school and having a license, so I cannot provide legal advice. But, I will say that it's important to remember the different types of protectable intellectual property. When we say a company's trademark work, it's a bit confusing. Trademark usually refers to the name, logo, etc. but can also can refer to headstock shape, inlay type, etc. (see Fender, Gibson and PRS). What makes the trademark issue interesting is that it is not the functionality of the feature that is protected but the non-functional aesthetic aspects. So, trademark doesn't really help when it comes to functional designs like circuits and pickup design. What trademark is designed to protect is against the likelihood of confusion as to the source of the product. If the circuit board says BoogieMan in big letters and does not say Alembic, then there isn't much likelihood of someone thinking that it was made in Santa Rosa. It might argued that the shape and configuration of the two pickups and humcanceller in the middle could be a trademark configuration. When I see that, I certainly think Alembic. But patent might useful. If the design is sufficiently unique and non-obvious (among other attributes), then it can get a patent. I don't know for sure if Alembic got a patent on its system (humcanceller, filters, etc.) but even if they did, it would have expired already unless they had managed to renew it. Given the huge cost of getting a patent, it might not even be worth it in this case, since it's not a design that is or would probably be in common use. Defending the patent would be pricey as well and licensing it would not bring in all that much revenue. Copyright is also something that can be brought to bear and could apply to circuit board design. However, it would apply to the exact layout and design and it's not always clear if it is something the courts would uphold. Mike is right, if Boogieman changed the layout enough, even if the design is functionally the same, it is not protected. Where people have gotten into trouble is when the whole board is directly copied, sometimes even including the original in-house company designations and/or name and logo! Opening a device from Company B and finding a circuit board labeled Company M is a serious problem. I don't think that is the case here. Trade secret can be used to protect intellectual property, but it is subject to reverse engineering, which in this case would be pretty simple. So, there isn't much help here. At the end of the day, what really protects Alembic from Fernandes and BoogieMan and other imitators is not the legal world but the fact that real Alembic instruments are real Alembic instruments. We know the kind of care and craftsmanship that goes into each one and we know that it is extremely costly and difficult to match that. The reputations of Ron, Susan, Mica, et. al., including past contributors to Alembic who have gone on to their own stellar careers, make it clear that the real value is in the original instruments. When it comes to things like circuitboards, I don't see it as too consequential because to be really useful, you need an Alembic bass, which means that you already have the circuit board and the pickups and have little need of purchasing the copy. Alembic is largely protected because they are Alembic and anyone who gets something that is not Alembic knows that they are not getting the real deal. My sense is that Boogieman or other copiers of this type are not really going to make much out of this or put much of a dent in Alembic sales. I would imagine most of them just quietly disappear after a while. Again, I'm not really a lawyer, I've only played one at final exams at school, so please do not base any action on any of these statements. Despite my analysis, there might be a very real argument to be made in court on behalf of Alembic. To quote Frank, "I might be totally wrong." Hopefully one of our real lawyers can chime in. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1797 Registered: 2-2005 |
No argument about the guy being a jerk. Not knowing the patent and copyright status of any of the circuits we can't say if this is legit or not. Reverse engineering is a valid method to perform product development as long as it is done so it doesn't infringe on any patents. There is certainly lots of room here for the Boogieman to not infringe and be a legitimate case of reverse engineering. Keith | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 1292 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hmmm - I can't decide if I'm more shocked that it took this long for someone to put out a copy of the best, or that anyone would bother, since, as Edwin points out, anyone who would be interested in this would know it's not the real deal. I was thinking that I might file this away as a cost-effective route in case I ever decided to try building a bass, or found an abused one that needed some EMGs pulled out or something, but since the guy has revealed himself to be an ass, forget that. Peter | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 234 Registered: 9-2009 |
More than anything else, it's Peter's last comment that would make me wary of purchasing anything from him. Mica's question appears reasoned and non-inflammatory (i.e., "hey let's talk about what you're doing"). The response she got was anything but. Makes me wonder what would happen if I purchased the stuff and found that, for whatever, reason, I wasn't satisfied with it. Wait a minute...there it is "No Returns Accepted." | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 235 Registered: 9-2009 |
Just read my post. Clarification possibly needed. I didn't mean to suggest that I would hesitate to purchase anything from Pater, but rather the Boogieman. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1295 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yeah, it seems like a crapshoot. 40+ years of reputation for the best vs. fly by night ebay salesman with an attitude? Well, time will tell, but I don't think Alembic has much to worry about. If I were Boogieman and had some serious chops and wanted to get Alembic's attention, I would be as nice as possible because if he's really on top of all this stuff, maybe it would turn into legitimate employment. Sort of like Steve Vai sending Frank Zappa a transcription of The Black Page. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1930 Registered: 9-2002 |
Corvettes are getting mighty speedy here lately, but Ferrari is not going out of business. Lots of rangefinder cameras (including my fave Fuji XPro), but there's only one Leica. You can buy Citori skeet guns all day long, but it's still not a real Made-In-Belgium, FN Custom Shop, Browning Superposed. I could go on, but you see where I'm headed. Musical instruments are the biggest 'me too business' in the world. There's lots and lots of handmade axes out there, but ALEMBIC owns an original spot in that market. It's a good business for the Wickershams, but a drop in a small bucket vs. the Yamahas and Fenders of the World. Aftermarket parts for these axes would indeed be a 'cottage business' ! Plus, with the Pit Bull Customer Service Department and a No-Return policy, I think you can see where THAT's going as well. I might put somebody else's keys or strap locks on my Alembics, but Ron's electronics are the heart of these things, and I could not imagine for the life of me using anything else. I'd end up with a musical equivalent of one of those Jags with a transplanted Chevy V8. No Thanks. J o e y | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 500 Registered: 9-2004 |
I hate to tell you this, but Ferrari has been owned by Fiat for years. I can also tell you that if my XKE had a chev engine, it would be slightly lighter and go faster and be way easier to work on... and Leica uses Japanese parts and technology to make the digital stuff work right. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1455 Registered: 6-2002 |
pardon the tangent...just wanted to celebrate gtrguy's 500th post...woohoo!!! O.K. ...back to my somber , but not sober being. carry on ~~~  Elwood | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5231 Registered: 7-2004 |
And Volkswagen owns Porsche, but I'd still rather drive my 968 than a Beetle. Others have tried to copy Alembic's innovations in the past, Aria and Fernandes to name two, but I doubt few if any players who wanted and could afford an Alembic settled for Aria or Fernandes. I own both guitars and, while the woodwork is very nice, the electronics just don't cut the mustard compared to the original Alembic stuff. On my Fernandes, I pulled out the electronics and put in Alembic. And might not Mesa have an issue with "Boogieman" too? Bill, tgo | ||
| jzstephan
Intermediate Member Username: jzstephan Post Number: 123 Registered: 1-2012 |
A better analogy would be Ferrari GTO kit car  or a real GTO  with the real stuff under the hood  | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 501 Registered: 9-2004 |
Yes, 500 posts!!! And still playing the devils advocate! And Porsche tried to swallow Volkswagon but Volkswagon ended up swallowing Porsche, even though the Piech family sorta took it over years ago. And a new Honda 4 door Accord is faster than an old 911, or so I hear. The lesson is that any company in this day and age needs to be aware of the world market and what the competition are up to and adjust accordingly. No niche is safe, no client base is secure. I think the recent ads Alembic have been running show that they are aware of this. They do put out one of the best instruments made, which is why I have one or two, but I also have a Fender and a Yamaha and a Musicman. I have been watching the Voodooman EBay ads for guitar amp switching pedals that they make to rival the OEM amp pedals. They made better, cheaper pedals and I thought "what a great idea", especially for the awkward older Mesa Boogie channel switching pedals that they improved upon. They started out small with just one or two pedals and now offer a whole big line of them. Well, I checked EBay last week for them and found that other companies now are making the same aftermarket pedals and that they look better and sell for even less. That is the Free Enterprise System at work, for better or worse. Now if you take that to the global arena, you see America buying stuff cheaper from China, and we outsource jobs and material to them now, for better and worse. High-end Eastman guitars are rivaling anything we can make and many players are picking them up, just as we bought ‘made in Japan’ once it was good. Things change and we need to keep up. | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 236 Registered: 9-2009 |
The key questions here would seem to be: (A) Are the electronics actually better or just cheaper. There's a real difference between something new offering better tone, greater flexibility, etc. and a product that is merely less expensive. How many times have all of us taken a shot at something that appears to be too good to be true and found out exactly that; (b) How much faith can one put in a product that while it claims to make one's bass sound 21st century (whatever that is) can not be returned if one is not satisfied; and (c) The lack of customer service skills the guy appears to possess. Is there anyone here who would want to have to deal with this person if his product turned out to be less than expected. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3152 Registered: 6-2002 |
Good Point Hammer. A while back before I had my Series II I had some ACG filters installed by John East. These are the same filters that Stanley Clarke has in his Spellbinder basses. Low and high pass for each pickup plus cvq and master volume and balance. I really put them in because I wanted to see if I could get access to a series bass type of sound before I splashed out on a real one. Thankfully they sound really good but don't sound as complete tonally as I was expecting and are slightly noisier than alembic pickups. The high pass filters are not really a lot of use to me apart from adding some attack on the notes. As a consequence I don't use that bass as much as I did before. I'm toying with the idea of putting the Europa electronics back in the bass and buying a non alembic bass to put those other filters in. In contrast to this boogieman person. Alan Cringrean from ACG guitars and John East were fantastic about helping me get the setup right and John even did the mod to get master volume and balance and installed everything in my bass at no additional cost. Jazzyvee | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1394 Registered: 12-2004 |
Jazzy, Did you use the ACG with Alembic pickups? Bradley | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3153 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yep I did, John did all the necessary mods to get everything working with the low impedance pickups. jazzy | ||
| jim777
New Username: jim777 Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2012 |
Being difficult to work with doesn't really imply anything about the quality of the work though. Anyone who has ever dealt with Ken Smith or Alexander "Howard" Dumble would attest to that. I also can't actually see anyone buying this stuff for their Alembic - if you had a Series II bass and found it noisy or whatever why not get rid of it and get something quieter? Who is the target audience for these products exactly? Maybe someone buying it for a home made instrument, or as a kit to ship off to a custom builder, but not for an actual Alembic! Who would do that?!? And not for nothing, (keep in mind I'm a bass player since '73 but new here before the pitchforks come out!) it might just be that a few more Alembic copies floating around might bring some more recognition to the brand as well. It's not a great thing, or somethign you would seek out certainly, but it doesn't need to be entirely negative. Best preamp/electronics product available aside, there are still probably 1000 bass players who've played the Bongo's 4 band pre for each bass player who has played an Alembic Series instrument. And even Mike Pope is selling multiple snap together configurations of his pre that will fit in anything these days. Fodera pre for 300 bucks, basically. There is an apect here of Oscar Wilde, "The only thing worse than being talked about is NOT being talked about". I wouldn't buy one myself, but I would be interested in seeing just how many are being sold. i can't see him ever hitting triple digits with these things honestly. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1398 Registered: 12-2004 |
Jim, Difficult to work with implies everything I need to know about the product. I was going to buy one. What happens when you need support? You think Mr. Jerkface is going to take care of you? No, he's going to tell you you're holding it wrong. This is the same reason that I won't do business with someone who treats a barista/waitperson poorly... they will always find a way to do you wrong. Bradley | ||
| jim777
New Username: jim777 Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2012 |
Your response to his 'jerkitude' is not objective though Bradley; which doesn't make it bad, either. Lots of folks love their Ken Smith basses, and some even keep them after dealing with him ;-) But his personality and ability to relate well with others is a well known sore point. Some people won't buy his stuff because they've heard he is difficult to get along with - that's up to the individual certainly but no reflection on the quality of his work. Were you really considering buying Boogieman's bits and pieces for a Series II instrument though? That does surprise me. And again, I only looked at one or two eBay ads but I saw nothing that resembled "I will not support this product if you buy it - once it ships you are on your own". Anything you want to infer from the actual ad but is not there is really up to you, but not based on anything concrete but rather gut feelings. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 504 Registered: 9-2004 |
I have an old series one that had the electronice guts removed years before I bought it and changed to bartolini pickups and preamp. It took me a couple years of searching to finally find another old Alembic setup for it and buy it and get it shipped (it got lost for a while in shipping, too), and it still cost me almost a grand. If I had seen these parts for sale then I would have been tempted. I also now see he is now cutting the price on them and selling un-populated circuit boards for series instruments too. It kinda looks like they are not selling too many of them and want out, or else Alembic gave them a good tongue-lashing!!! | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 505 Registered: 9-2004 |
Now as to people’s attitude; I have worked in hospitals for years and known a lot of surgeons. After a while I got tired of dealing with the ones with an attitude and began to gravitate towards the ones who were nice. After a few more years of getting to know folks who worked with them in the OR, I found out that many of the ones who were a PITA were the ones who had the best patient survival rates and some of the ones I really liked were losing patients that they should not have been losing. It was an eye-opener and really changed my outlook on life. Give me a PITA any day if they know what they are doing and I am lying there on the table under the knife! Of course, this does not translate to the Boogieman person at all, it is just one of my little life-observations. Truth is, there is nothing like an Alembic! That is why I love them and that is why I visited the Mother Ship a few years ago and got to meet the fine people involved in making them! Dave | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1803 Registered: 2-2005 |
You know if the e-bay listings didn't say Yonkers, NY I would have suspected Hal as the manufacturer. Keith | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 248 Registered: 9-2009 |
Jim: You make some good points about how much many people will put up with if the product they are purchasing is exceptional. I know that I've done this many times if I feel the hassle is worth it. The thing is...we don't know that about the product this guy is producing. Ken Smith may have some unique ways of dealing with customers, but his product has sufficient recognition as a superior one that he can get away with it. My thoughts on the Boogieman not supporting the product in question were not so much based on his responses to questions (which did not come across well), but rather, his no returns policy. Now while it may be a hassle to deal with ebay, paypal etc. with returns, if one has a good product, believes in that product, and wants to sell sufficient numbers to make a name for oneself, a no-return policy might not be the best strategy to take as you bring it to market. I don't know many people who would be willing to invest that amount of money in a new product (which may, in fact, be excellent and is of course a lot less expensive) that they know little about other than the claims made by its developer. If the claims are true, I would personally consider his product if I ever find that Guild Starfire I lust after. I'd agree, however, that replacing original Series I or II electronics with his product, unless they weren't working and could not be repaired would border on craziness. And of course all of this doesn't take in to consideration any of the legal issues that may exist. | ||
| jim777
New Username: jim777 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2012 |
True as well. As I had said earlier, I cannot possibly see him selling 100 of these things, and mostly due to the rarity of basses with series electronics out there. Very few bassists have ever played a Series bass and have any real idea of what it entails or means. And there are so many preamps out there now to compete with, that have firms behind them not just tinkerers with copied circuit boards. Also, as someone else pointed out a lot of his ads now say "half price". Again, I don't know anything about this guy or his stuff so it may well be that they ALWAYS said 'half price'. Like a furniture store near me that has been 'going out of business' for at least the last 4 years! But my initial thought was that he went hard into this thinking he'd see a market and simply hasn't and wants to basically sell off his stock and be done with it. I would assume he'd support it for a little while, at least until it all sold at any rate. I don't know though. Since he says these only fit in Alembic Series basses though, he really took a very, very wrong turn in the 'reach the widest audience' department. I can understand why Alembic would be upset, but I personally would be far more worried (if I were Alembic) if he was selling something that sounded just like an Alembic pre but could drop into a jazz bass, for instance. there are quite a bit more of them around than Series basses. | ||
| nnek
Member Username: nnek Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2009 |
Actually his price has gone up by $20 and no longer offers "or best offer"... I have a series 1 that has just plain out stopped working. I don't know what it is and might have been tempted to try a new pre as a fix at $165 (which it appears they had sold for), but at $199 plus shipping I'm not so sure... however for the starving musician comparing the old electronic updating price from the Mother ship at $1450 plus coast to coast shipping of the bass.....what's the owner of vintage equipment and limited means to do? | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 1122 Registered: 6-2002 |
If putting a $165 replacement card in a bass fixes it's problems, then so be it. I am not saying it is better than Alembic's card, it just is what it is. I would rather have a working series bass with a fake card that one that will not make music at all. After all these instruments are tools and what good are they if they are silent. It is just another solution to spending for an upgrade and having to wait until Alembic can get to it. It certainly beats gutting the bass and stuffing in Barts or EMG's. It probably would be a great alternative for your ailing Fernandes too! Just my opinion. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3171 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm curious about the calibration aspect of these. We know Ron calibrates the alembic series electronics and pickups on the bass so that there is a good match between the bass, individual pickups and electronics. Also the noise cancelling systems are optimised in Ron's coil systems whilst on the bass. Can a buyer be sure that these pickups are going to be a good match for the pickups and importantly quiet? The replacement system I've got in my Europa, the noise levels from them are quiet but audible unlike the original Alembic electronics which are silent in respect to noise. Maybe in the interests of fairness a set would need to be bought tried out and reported back. However the downside is that if they indeed turned out to be very good, boogieman could maybe use the feedback as "Endorsement by the Alembic Forum". Jazzyvee | ||
| lidon2001
Senior Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 494 Registered: 4-2005 |
I agree with Michael. Send the guy a message and see if he will let one go for the old price. (Message edited by lidon2001 on October 05, 2012) | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 506 Registered: 9-2004 |
Better yet, Have everyone on this thread send me say, $15 each, and I will buy a setup and try it out and report back!!! ;) (just kidding) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7860 Registered: 6-2000 |
If you have an Alembic PF card, you can send it here for a FREE test if there is some problem you can describe. We have had a long-standing (actually, the entire length of time we've made these electronics) flat $75 fee for repairing or replacing the card with either a new one or a rebuilt one at our choice. We do charge $350 retail for a brand-spankin' new card. I can't see anything of the high frequency noise cancelling network on the cards for sale on ebay. These would still likely need the upgrade. | ||
| nnek
Member Username: nnek Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2009 |
That's GREAT news Mica. I had no idea that there was any such service. I will pack up my card today. What is the preferred procedure as far as scheduling and work order etc? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7861 Registered: 6-2000 |
Make sure you pack it in a static safe bag and then in a sturdy box (I will be so mad if it shows up in a padded envelope). Insure it for the $350 replacement cost in case things go awry on the way here. Include a note that has: 1. your name and return shipping address 2. phone number(s) and email for contact 3. description of the problem you are experiencing 4. serial number of the instrument the card is from We'll let you know when it arrives and when the work is done (usually only a few days for just a card). Then we'll settle the account and ship it back. The $75 doesn't include shipping, but we bill that at the exact price without any markup. | ||
| flpete1uw
Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2011 |
When I sent my Distillate Pickups / Electronics back. I was confident by reputation and sonic brilliance that this was the right thing to do. There is something about the Peace of Mind that all has been checked out, Tested and meets original Specs. I couldn't be Happier with my Bass now. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1461 Registered: 6-2002 |
hmmm...maybe there's hope for my '78 series one guitar. Though I suspect at least one of the pickup coils is open, testing the card would be a huge step forward. I've never had the guitar working with it's original electronics and pickups. Thanks for the reminder Mica ! | ||
| nnek
Member Username: nnek Post Number: 80 Registered: 8-2009 |
Mica, As my bass has no signal at all....I'm thinking I should send you everything. what should I insure my shipment for if I send all the electronics with or without pickups? I am afraid of sending the pickups for some reason....(can't believe i never thought of sending the guts without the bass.. I was really afraid of shipping the bass coast to coast!) | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10914 Registered: 5-2002 |
Elwood; you can test the pickups by simply switching the pickup leads where they plug into the card. For the old style connectors, guidance is here. New style is here, and remember to pull on the housing rather than the wire. If the pickup selector switch is moved from the neck position to the bridge position, and you are only getting sound in one of those positions, then if you switch the leads the other selector switch position will be the one with no sound if the problem is indeed a pickup. If you switch leads but the selector switch position with no sound stays the same, then the problem is not a pickup. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1462 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ahhh..hehe..well... I bought the guitar ten years ago on ebay (my first Alembic purchase) and it arrived with the guts cut up and nonfunkshunning  . The pickup housing is broken and the coil is exposed on one pickup. There is continuity on the humcanceller and I think one pickup IIRC, it's been a while since I tested it. Currently the guitar has an activator in the middle and a couple passive G&L pickups at the neck and bridge just to keep her up and running. Thanks as always, I've got a blue box and cable stashed away for the day she is complete again. I only paid 900 back then and was a newbie to ebay, so I never got worked up about the sellers lack of disclosure. If she would have been fully functional I would have lost her in an emergency liquidation years back, so looking back you could say there were positives about the guts being hacked. I'm very happy to still have my first Alembic. {{{{ H A P P Y ~~~ D A N C E }}}} (Message edited by elwoodblue on October 06, 2012) | ||
| that_sustain
Member Username: that_sustain Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2012 |
Lucky you. My first two Alembic basses are pictured on this site. That's all I have of them. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 507 Registered: 9-2004 |
Man, if you have the PF6 card, you are more than half way there. I think Alembic often has the molds for the pickups and can make them in the right color and they are not too horribly expensive. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10918 Registered: 5-2002 |
Elwood; yeah, I was figuring the situation was going to be something like that, but thought I'd give it a shot just in case. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1463 Registered: 6-2002 |
hehe...thanks Dave, I get the feeling some here are getting to know me ...that's nice gtrguy...it's all there, I bet new pickups will be needed, just gotta bring the project to the front burners. |
