| Author | Message | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 770 Registered: 12-2004 |
If a cat dont even play an alembic anymore & he's got a alembic sig model but he's bangin on somethin else all night??? | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 845 Registered: 11-2003 |
Are you referring to Mark King? Just wondering. Alan | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2648 Registered: 10-2002 |
While we're at it, I don't see the point in calling a bass a signature model if it doesn't exactly represent the instrument the named artist plays, especially in the electronics dept. Further, my sig deluxe is a balance'K' 5 string. i don't think any of the named artists have ever played anything remotely similar :-) Graeme | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2537 Registered: 6-2002 |
The Signature basses originally featured a copy of the artist's signature on the front of the headstock, at least for the SC, MK and EVH varieties. Anyone for another round of "Name that Alembic"? | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1283 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have an MK Signature, it has no autograph on the headstock and has the humcancellers, vol, filters, pan and Q switches. Mark King used Series II basses so I agree with your comment jacko. I think the Signature came about that the choice of woods was Coco Bolo for the MK and Rosewood for the SC. Maybe they shoud rename them ?? Anyway it it still a great sounding bass, maybe they should be called Series | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 592 Registered: 5-2007 |
I agree, while SC flirts with other basses, he plays his Alembic short scale basses most the times I have seen him. Once he played a German sounding bass with weird P/U configuration for one song only around 2004 or 2005. Then he played his Spellbinder for one song with RTF and not at all with SMV. MK has not played an Alembic in years. Maybe a 'Big Tony' signature bass. Definitely a Jimmy Johnson signature. | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 43 Registered: 9-2009 |
I never believed in "signatures" in anything unless the artist had a hand in the original art. However, I believe signatures is a way for the producers to appreciate the artist for the years of loyalty for the brand. I don't believe an artist must stay with an instrument forever, nor do I feel producer(s) have to continue the artist(s) signature line. Objects change, and people do too. The signature of all things, eventually get's forgotten and becomes of no significances eventually. "Down the street you can hear her scream you're a disgrace... As she slams the door in his drunken face... And now he stands outside, And all the neighbors start to gossip and drool... He cries oh, girl you must be mad, What happened to the sweet love you and me had? Against the door he leans and starts a scene, And his tears fall and burn the garden green And so castles made of sand fall in the sea, eventually... A little Indian brave who before he was ten, Played war games in the woods with his Indian friends... And he built up a dream that when he grew up, He would be a fearless warrior Indian Chief... Many moons past, and more the dream grew strong until Tomorrow, he would sing his first war song and fight his first battle; But something went wrong, surprise attack killed him in his sleep that night... And so castles made of sand melts into the sea, eventually... There was a young girl, who's heart was a frown Cause she was crippled for life, And she couldn't speak a sound, And she wished and prayed she could stop living, So she decided to die... She drew her wheelchair to the edge of the shore And to her legs she smiled you wont hurt me no more, But then a sight she'd never seen made her jump and say: "Look a golden winged ship is passing my way..." And it really didn't have to stop, it just kept on going... And so castles made of sand slips into the sea, eventually. JMH - Peace and love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 15, 2010) | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2538 Registered: 6-2002 |
There are definitely JJ Signature models out there, just check the Showcase section. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2490 Registered: 3-2004 |
In general, I agree with you guys. I don't know the history of any of the "Signature" players in terms of their electronics packages. I also couldn't tell you about their wood recipes to know if the "Standard" or "Deluxe" represent at least the wood combination that any of them used. That said, I don't care. I can see that some people might, but many (most?) who order these instruments are customizing them in one way or another. I don't think it's deceptive and no one believes they are actually getting the identical instrument their heroes played. What those guys may be doing today has no bearing on the fact that they made great music that put their names forward while playing Alembic. If anything, Alembic might look at an update to their image with regard to the "Signature" instruments. We're heading toward the end of the careers of MK and SC. These models have been around for 20-25 years and while both are still active, I don't believe either is as popular as they once were. Of course, Alembic isn't looking to appeal to every kid with $1000 in his bank account and an urge to be like some rock star hero. So, rather than just complain, what would you have Alembic do about it? Would you discontinue the use of the player names once they cease to use the instrument? Would you only offer the exact version played by the star, though it might double the price over a Standard? Here's what I would do. First, I would keep an eye out for known players using Alembic instruments live or in studio. Second, I would list a third level, the "Signature Authentic", that represents the configuration used by the named player. One really nice aspect of this in the Alembic world is that they can list it without ever having to build it. If none are ordered, it's not like they would be stuck with a bunch of inventory or templates to unload. The investment is a little research and a web page. There are quite a few great players for whom an authentic model could be offered. Of course, everything is just fine today, so they don't need to do anything... -bob | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 44 Registered: 9-2009 |
"We're heading toward the end of the careers of MK and SC..." - bob That was a major slap. No-way I believe those guy careers are ending... Anyway, I believe statements like those, are reserved for the artist, and their creator to affirm, and confirm. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 15, 2010) | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1284 Registered: 11-2004 |
When I bought mine back in 1998 at New York I thought it was a Series I but then it dawned on me that it didn't have a dummy humcanceller. I don't think their careers are coming to an end, look at Les Paul, he carried on albiet in a small way until he was too ill to do so. Unlike sports, the arts can be a lifelong career and as far as the bass models are concerend I guess the only person to answer a) why they were developed and b) are they to continue is Mica. They could be renamed Series III( I missed that out on my last post), Series bodied basses with humcanceller PU's and matching electronics. In all, Stan Clarke is always going to be associated with Alembic. | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2009 |
Bob, I believe, and agree with the other things you said -- no doubt... It's like going to a sandwich shop... You could order the Elvis authentic - "Peanut Butter and Banana" or just a boring burger and a cup of coffee. Only, there's nothing boring about any Alembic -- with or without a signature. Franky, I believe we all have a signature, which only our flaws makes us different, and that's cool too.  Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 15, 2010) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2491 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm not saying that either guy will be done tomorrow. SC was huge in the 70's and he's still prolific in his work, but he's closing in on 60. Sure, he'll keep playing, creating and entertaining until they seal him in a box and that could be 20 or 30 more years, but I have a hard time believing he'll regain the status he had 35 years ago. MK is in his 50s now as well. Level 42 was near the top of the UK charts for much of the 80s, but they have done little in the past 15 years other than live work. They had great success internationally, though never did as well in the US. MK's solo stuff never made the same impact on consumers. Like SC, he will probably keep entertaining for at least another 20 years, but there are probably very few arena dates in his future. In any case, no one lives forever. Many can't continue their careers through the entirety of their lives. Many artists who achieve success and security are more inclined to do their own thing in later years rather than worry about promotion and commercial success. There's no rule that says that neither man can achieve a success in excess of their past exploits, but if you had to wager on it, would you bet on SC to come out with anything to exceed School Days? | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2027 Registered: 6-2002 |
I personally don't really care if an alembic is called a signature bass or not. It could have been called an alembic biscuit tin. I bought my first alembic because I wanted a bass that looked and sounded "similar" to the one Stanley Clarke used but at a price I could afford. It was only when I had started to look for such a bass that I was aware that there was a signature model. If it were not for that I would not have any alembics now. It became an entry point for me into the family of Alembic instruments. After all a signature is only a representation of something. Stanley as we know has had a number of alembics over the years so if a signature was supposed to be an exact replica of his bass, which one do we choose? The signature bass is a representation of the basses he uses It's not called A Stanley Clarke Replica Copy bass. I'm happy that Alembic have such models that are less expensive but are made with the same quality and give you something in it that is also available on the top of the range, you can buy into that and enjoy the relationship with the company and the instrument. ----------------------- Are we now to question Hal's naming of the Alembic Tomahawk? Because with respect I don't think the Alembic Tomahawk can be used like this. :-) "The tomahawk was a primarily hand-to-hand combat weapon used by Native North Americans. It was also used as a missile, and could be thrown with impressive accuracy. It was occasionally used for a rushed scalping job. " I jest(er) haha I couldn't stop myself. Jazzyvee. | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 46 Registered: 9-2009 |
Jazzy, Imagine watching the movie "Deer Hunter" and instead of Robert De Niro or Christopher Walken being slapped around, while tied down to a chair, that's me when it comes to taking all the shots... My mouth is bleeding and my nose -- is more than likely broken... and I still laugh and say: "Is that all you got... Haaahhh ahhhh Hahhh!" ...And I still smile, broken teeth and all. Faith is all we got. One last point: I love my Toma_Hawk so much, I wouldn't trade it for any bass made by Alembic or anything else. This bass has my values encapsulated with the worlds best bass makers in the world. Don't hate, innovate. Peace and Love. Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 15, 2010) | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2009 |
By the way, With all those basses Stanley played, or own in his well earned and deserved collection -- not one of those basses were designed for the efficiency of "FUNK" tactics. But then again, if you are blessed with the anatomy of a large person, you probably wouldn't need much help anyway. So, I say again... Thank GOD for the ELECTRIC BASS, because I just don't have enough room for anything up-right, but a up-right vacuum cleaner... Peace and Love, Hal- | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2028 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hal, I hope you haven't misjudged my comments. I was not trying to insult, you or your bass at all. I was merely using the name as an example in an attempt to say that fact a bass named after something, does mean that it has to be a replica it's how the bass does the function it was designed for that matters. The original object is merely represented by the shape. Hate is not something I embrace, Innovation is why I have alembics. Funk is it's own reward. Apologies if I have offended. Jazzyvee | ||
| eligilam
Advanced Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 275 Registered: 2-2006 |
I'm starting to get that sick feeling again... | ||
| toma_hawk01
Junior Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 48 Registered: 9-2009 |
It's cool Jazzy. Honestly, I never trip on the truth of something, for this is what I live my life for. It's games people play, I don't like. I think, if we were to someday meet, our music would be SLAMMING! I believe this to be true too. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 15, 2010) | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 593 Registered: 1-2008 |
I had honestly never even heard of Mark King before I started hanging-out here and I'm STILL not sure of EVH's claim to fame (no offense intended). I'm REALLY ashamed to admit that I didn't know Les Paul was a person until I was in my 20's... I just thought it was a cool name for a guitar!!! I guess my point is that sometimes a name transcends the person... it comes to stand for something else. | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 581 Registered: 4-2004 |
First navigating this site, (approx 10 years ago!!?!!), I had a hard time sorting through the SC/MK/standard/deluxe/sig lingo when it came to identifying some Alembics. Just like how every now or then a Small Standard Europa gets listed as a SC standard, or a Series I gets listed as a MK deluxe.... I like Bob's idea of the website having an "Authentic" recipe spreadsheet! -Mike | ||
| slammin
Member Username: slammin Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2009 |
I think the "Don't hate, innovate." is the rain cloud, this time. You accidentally mis-read a good vibe from Jazzy, aimed at you. Still, amusing to read, so I guess amusing for me to participate, if one would call this participating, lol. Really, poetry is not my strong point. Reading it, or professing anything I need to say. It's never poetic. But, I do recognize it. Hal, will you write my marriage vows, should I ever decide to marry again? You have such a very profound way with words that I think the best divorce lawyer would have a very hard time building an arguement against. I mean, it would be a tripnotic experience to have your words be the glue that ties me to my next ex, lol! Again, all in good fun, because I love hearing folks' minds, and Hal, you are an open book! That is compliment, and warmest given. I feel ya! | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2009 |
Jay didn't have to apologies for anything. I was reading his message, and then all of a sudden, the dynamics changed, after my bass came into the discussion for the first time. "Hey man, you can talk about me, but my basses are off limits..." Jay, knows I am cool with him, and I hope he feels the same way about me (which I am sure he does...). Peace and Love, Hal- | ||
| oddmetersam
Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 77 Registered: 7-2008 |
When I pull my MK Sig Deluxe out of her case and tell the goggle-eyed onlookers she's an Alembic (which I repeat very slowly to make sure they hear the company name properly), the actual model designation is obviously irrelevant to most of them at that point! Mainly, I look at it this way: All of us have our own (Your Name Here) Signature basses, since no two are identical and they become magical extensions of ourselves in ways that are so different than any other instrument we could possibly own. Kinda like the mind-meld between the natives in Avatar and those flying creatures they ride...minus the meshing of tail tendrils! | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2009 |
Honestly, I wouldn't know a Stanley Signature from a Standard Small Body bass, nor a Mark King Standard long scale from a Series 1 -- unless you told me. I know the symbol, and that's enough for me. What if the artist does something stupid like Mel Gibson, Martha Steward, and/or Tiger Woods alleged or proven? I Just want the best bass made by a company without the commercial name. Keep it simple and original. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 18, 2010) | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 435 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know any of the inside story of the Signature models, but it seems to me that they probably exist because people were asking for copy versions of these players' instruments. The players whose names grace the Sigs have all been very notable in their spheres. By virtue of their rarity and very high price though the years, Alembics are definitely the most famous instruments that most people have never seen much less touched. You may never handle a pre-CBS Strat either, but there are plenty of replicas at all price ranges that you can get a sense of what a vintage Strat is like. But even high-end Spectors, MTDs, Modulus and the like aren't much like experiencing an Alembic. Extraordinary players like Stanley Clarke or Mark King never attributed their distinctive sound to their instruments, but it was hard to miss. Alembic would certainly have gotten requests for instruments like their visible players, and the answer for most people isn't very digestible - everything is customizable and (relative to most instruments) the prices are shocking. So, I think that the Signatures are a shorthand for starting a buying discussion - an artist-approved configuration and a starting point for the discussion of what it takes to make a more authentic replica. I do think it's a bit odd that the Sig models don't have Series electronics since that really is a signficant part of the sound. I guess this is reflective of the pricing though. On a much, much smaller scale, you see this same thing popping up with Klein Electrics in past years. There were only a couple hundred of these instruments made, all largely custom and a few in the hands of well-known players in their own spheres (Michael Hedges, Henry Kaiser, Bill Frisell, etc.). You see mentions of things like "BF" models that have similar electronics configurations, etc, but they could just as well have had the initials of the person they were built for. David Fung | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1435 Registered: 9-2002 |
David, it seems you travel in these circles . . . so what happened to Klein? The electrics seemed to go away, and then there seems to have been some squabble vis-a-vis the Taylor bass . . . anything that can be said in public? I can only imagine the difficulty obtaining graphite necks in those days of the Modulus/Steinberger legal maneuvers. As far as 'Signature' Alembics? Kinda silly since I can not imagine in thirty-odd years there's no two alike, and besides, most players are really too fickle to use any one guitar all the time, much less their 'signature' axe. Ever see Les' own Les Paul? J o e y | ||
| 88persuader
Advanced Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 398 Registered: 5-2004 |
Since we're throwing in our opinions, I don't believe in signiture models even though I owned one, unless it's to the EXACT specs of the original instrument used by the star. My SC standard was awesome but wasn't to the specs of what Stanley used (EVER) and the fact it was called his signature model and i know he never used those electronics never sat well with me. In regard to Stanley and Mark's carreers slowing down, I agree. Nobody stays at the top of their popularity forever regardless how well they still perform. They were on top in the 80s. Most young bass players of today don't even know who they are. Companies sometimes may make signature models to thank the artist however I believe the main reason they make a signature model in most cases is to cash in on the artist's name and fame. And in business there's nothing wrong with that, it's smart business. I think Alembic needs to promote their bass line by getting CURRENT famous bass players to play and endorce Alembic. KIDS (the adult buyers of tomorrow) generally don't know who SC or MK are. SC and MK are bass heros of OUR generation not theirs and if you look at the respected bass players of today and look to see what brand they play VERY FEW play Alembics. | ||
| darkstar01
Advanced Member Username: darkstar01 Post Number: 228 Registered: 6-2005 |
seriously? who cares? it doesn't make a difference. i've said before i don't care for stanley's playing or his music (and level 42 isn't exactly my thing,either), but i've owned a brown bass before (AND an MK signature). i honestly hope alembic doesn't give some buster player a signature model in the future, because it's pointless. these are custom instruments, and it seems to me the entire point of other companies having signature instruments is using the object of said "signature" to sell them. i don't care how much you like stanley clarke, i find it incredibly unreasonable to spend $5000+ just to play an instrument like him (and for no other reason than that). | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 846 Registered: 11-2003 |
I view Signature instruments as a starting point. Most that buy them are drawn to them because of the people most associated with them (Stanley and Mark). I know I was (Stanley). This being said, if I were to order a custom SC or MK, it would in no way resemble what those two artists would prefer. Why? Because I'm not SC or MK. This being said, I'd at least have a template from which to deviate. I am the owner of a Series II. It is (as close as we can get, anyway) a replica of the Alembics John Entwistle played. Even if I ordered it as a "signature" model, it would never meet the requirements I have .. e.g., a radius as opposed to a flat fingerboard like John's basses. In this sense, I used John's basses as a template to acquire something that was more my thing. And it is. To each his/her own. If a signature model works for you, cool. If not, order a custom. That's what makes Alembic such a great company if you ask me. Alan | ||
| 88persuader
Advanced Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 399 Registered: 5-2004 |
My suggestion isn't about creating more signature models for these younger players, my feeling is Alembic should get more young popular TALENTED players to use and endorse Alembics to help "spread the word." | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2009 |
I remember Stanley Clarke saying he's "really" an acoustic upright bassist, and plays electric bass as a hobby. OK, fair enough -- So, if this is true, where are his line of Signature Acoustic basses? Sounds some-what condescending when drawing distinctions between electric basses, in comparisons to the Acoustic-upright basses. Seems to me, Stanley captured most of his fortune fame using electric basses. Stanley's comments are confusing because the vast majority of basses he proudly poses in front of the camera and captures, are very high end, and obvious very expensive electric basses. But on the other hand, I'd only seen one acoustic upright in his war chest. I guess I can't read logic and reasoning into such remarks. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 19, 2010) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2039 Registered: 6-2002 |
It maybe that he has found his acoustic bass voice via that one instrument doesn't feel the need to have another. Although I recall on his site that on the road he takes a spellbinder copy of the acoustic bass he uses at home. http://www.stanleyclarke.com/gear_pg.htm In any case it would be hard to create a signature version of a 120-year old German flatback acoustic. Jazzyvee | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 63 Registered: 9-2009 |
Jay, this may be very true for Stanley personally, and you might also be right, but commercially he says: I am a "Rock Man" with the bass; a "Jazz Man" a "Movie Man" with the bass; a "Soul-Man" with the bass; a hip tall and cool FUNK player with the bass, and he does it all using the electric bass. However, now mid mid stream career wise, he say's all of that playing was a "hobby"? Alembic Inc., honors Stanley with a signature electric bass for recognition, and Stanley receives a very expensively made custom bass, with all the trimmings and a mythical Dragon image on it's inlays to his honor and his attributes "for-free", from his dedicated efforts of playing the Alembic electric basses (for all those years...) -- which Stanley speaks of playing electric bass as mere "hobby" is very questionable to say the least, and clearly, I don't know what is gained from such boasting. That's something from the pages of Iceberg Slim... or clearly, if there are no rules to the game, you must believe in myths. Also, the "Gear list" (Stanley's or anyone else (for that matter...)) -- are subject to change thus, a consistent living, dynamic reality. Romantic Warrior, is how old? But, RW is still my favorite tune Stanley ever did with an acoustic upright bass. It's truly timeless, and I can't thank him enough for that one tune; I only remember. Perhaps if Stanley really feels this way about playing acoustic basses, early in his career, Stanley should-had just put more work behind "Popularizing/Commercializing" his acoustic playing, and alleviate all the confusion if he truly feels/felt "this or that" way about electric basses. But history, shows he clearly didn't, and failed to make a convincing statement [backed up] with action, when he absolutely had the means, to put what he said, into musical reality. Unfortunately, I believe he missed "the one and only boat" 30 years ago to prove, and validate such words or claims he continue to raise in this regard. You can't have it both ways... By the way, I never heard Stanley take the acoustic upright bass, and use it primarily as a lead instrument, as he did with the versatility of the electric bass. And thus, to do this -- he would require another acoustic upright bassist, or an electric bassist (or even a tuba player), covering the background, while Stanley plays the lead. With such words from Stanley, I would had expected to see this kind of band on a constant bases. So, I am not even sure if I could give him credit for representing any band of his creations, depicting slighted movement(s) in the direction his statements. Therefore, stating he has a "more" greater appreciation playing acoustic upright basses, one would had guess "by now", he would had done something consistent with such statements. Therefore I believe another opportunity was missed. I don't trust artist printed words after they perceive they'd reached a certain level of fame. I am by nature more critical with the media and the artist...(as I believe we all should be...) because if the media agree with the "philosophy", "drive", and "direction" the artist is heading from within the message(s), it get printed, carried and supported over to greater masses, if not -- it get's the: "bad for business card". (Just how long did it take for Jimi Hendrix thoughts on music, and politics to be reviled?...) I believe, as a listener, or if you say you are a fan of a particular artist, I don't see nothing wrong with being "even more" critical to what an artist says and/ or do. I believe it's really easy to get tripped up by their fortune and fame, and or get blinded by their characterization the media label them as. So, at times, you can't even trust the media either because the media reporter(s) are careful not to ask the critical questions, and bounded by a corporate script; or lack the historical reference, and perspective to ask the right questions; or they don't ask enough thought provoking, and challenging questions on the artist(s) facts, ironies, fictions, dreams and or short comings as real people face. Some music medias would have us think (and some artist too) in one way, while heading in a different direction all-together.... Every time I hear a reporter or a music blog use the the term "legend", I am in question, and doubt as to what he/she means, and by what means (compared to what) is an artist a legend, and why it's assumed, as something so subjective, I must also accept -- when music is not a competitive sport where you beat an opponent, to claim championship towards legend status. The term "legend" is a dumb term, in reference to music, and I agree with Miles Davis completely with the fallacy, and fallacious depictions which the term can't represent to all people. The term is a trick to allude artist toward a musical status quo, or to a musical "so-called" governance composed by an elite body which gains controls over the public/private perceptions based on the acceptance of such subjective and obscure terms we allow to impose it opinions, with greater importance, over and above individuals outside the cultural domains. Also, the term legend, requires you to believe in their existence, before proven. So with no real criterion, why does this term even exist. What a fraud of a term it is... Legend. The term is very divisive, and that can't be good. Lastly, (In my Opinion) I don't believe Alembic awarded Stanley Clarke a fabulous bass, with thoughts of his concepts on electric basses as being something "second" to any basses, nor as a "hobby" like career when using their electric basses. (Just my opinion). Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 19, 2010) | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 436 Registered: 5-2002 |
Joey - Without hijacking the thread too much, the Klein Electric story is an interesting one. Steve Klein is a very innovative luthier and still makes small numbers of acoustic guitar, including a number of pretty eccentric instruments. He has a book of his work which is pretty interesting ("Art That Sings"). He explored ergonomic designs for the electric guitar back in the late 70's and ended up working with Ronnie Montrose on a design in the early 80s, but they didn't produce that guitar commercially. Interestingly Klein knew Rick Turner (I guess this wasn't totally a hijack!), who was working with Gibson R&D at the time and hooked him up with Ned Steinberger to produce the Steinberger GK model - ergo body, headless composite neck, and screw tuners. It sounds like the idea was that Steinberger would produce the guitars, but it ended up that Steinberger provided parts to Klein who built the electric guitars in California. After a while (a couple of hundred GKs, I think), Klein got tired of an assembly line and dissolved the relationship, but continued to build the guitars on a very limited and customized basis under the Klein Electric name. Eventually, Klein pulled out of that as well, and sold the electric guitar operations to his primary builder Lorenzo German. The location of production changed, but they were pretty much the same guitars. When the supply of Steinberger necks closed off due to the end of Steinberger production, Lorenzo built Kleins using Moses Graphite necks, then later switched to carving them out of rosewood. These instruments had now evolved to being full customs at high prices. I believe that production and finishing of the components was largely farmed out, but the critical assembly, fretwork, and setup were all done in the small shop. In this respect, Klein Electric is more like Sadowsky than Alembic. A couple of years ago, Lorenzo develop some sort of illness and seemed to fall off the grid, apparently leaving orders in progress hanging. Although you hear rumors of occasional guitars from Lorenzo coming out, I believe that production is largely stopped. I met Steve Klein at a NAMM show and bought a copy of his book from him. I think the electric guitar venture was not a happy time for him, and he didn't have anything to say about it. In fact, he was there in association with a Japanese acoustic guitar manufacturer who was building a new design of his and, frankly, he didn't seem to crazy about that product either. I don't know the story about the Taylor bass. I've played them and they were a very nice take on the acoustic bass guitar. I suspect that the high price and low sales probably just caused it not to be economically viable for a big company like Taylor. I think the story here is much the normal of a small boutique luthier with a good measure of success. Unlike the corporate giants or the big shops, the small shops are just operating on tiny numbers of instruments moving through, so the moves that they make aren't reflective of a big strategic plan. David Fung | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1436 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thanks, David. J o e y | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 216 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey friends, Not to re-hijack the thread but I thought I'd join in on the "signature" part of the discussion... As you guys have inferred, I think the concept of "signature" models was to simply offer an instrument that LOOKS like those played by the "signers", built by the same company, at a somewhat more affordable price level - about 1/2 that of a full-blown custom Series model. It's a way of introducing players to the vast world we know as Alembic. When Susan and Mica approached me about it (can't remember the year) I was surprised, honored, and slightly embarrassed. It was explained in the beginning that it would only be a facsimile of my original instrument and not an exact copy. I tried to convince them there was absolutely NO market for a "JJ model" and I can't imagine they ever sold very many. But again, it may have served as an introduction to the company for some players. Anybody who did enough research to discover the signature models would then likely take the next step and discover the "anything you can think of" Series models. And as we all know here, if any of us were to step onstage and play Stanley's actual bass through Stanley's bass rig we would NOT sound like Stanley. We would sound like ourselves. So the whole idea of buying an instrument to emulate your favorite player is odd to me. Alembic will build anything you want - including an exact duplicate (I saw what I thought was my own bass hanging in the spray booth last year - built for a Japanese buyer. Freaky!) Raymond, you may not realize that Alembic doesn't do endorsements. I bought all my instruments and I believe SC, MK, Entwistle, etc, all did as well. When a young player in a band starts to get recognition very often they are offered free instruments from companies like Yamaha, Fender, etc... in exchange for promotion. (Ironic because if they're getting recognition at that level it usually means they can afford to BUY whatever they want but more often than not will just play whatever is given to them...) It takes a certain kind of player, one who continues to seek something special, to find their way to Alembic. I always think of Alembic as the Rolls Royce of basses but you know, some people would rather drive a pickup... Jimmy J | ||
| keith_h
New Username: keith_h Post Number: 1649 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hey, I drive a pickup! It carries my equipment much better than a Rolls Royce any day of the week. :-D Keith | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 9463 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hah!! Here's to Alembics in trucks! | ||
| 88persuader
Advanced Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 400 Registered: 5-2004 |
None of the musicians with signature basses received SPECIAL DEALS from Alembic to allow them to use their names??? Now that is interesting and surprising! Probably why so few "star" bass players use Alembics. After all, beyond selling CDs and concert tickets, making industry deals involving their star status is how professional musicians survive. Well more power to Alembic if they're happy with their business status without using endorsements and hats off to the "stars" who would rather pay to use Alembics then make endorsement deals with someone else! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1438 Registered: 9-2002 |
Ah, but endorsement deals can bite you in the Floyd Rose: Here in NashVegas several years ago, an up-and-coming bassist managed to get signed to several deals with several companies, who were kept in the dark by this cat about the other deals. He was so fortunate he wound up in BASS PLAYER one month in two different ads for two different companies, pictured with their respective basses, who promptly yanked the deals! Lawyers were involved. I can think of two Sig models that involve succesful collaborations for those involved, and the artists have been pretty faithful about them: -The Ibanez George Benson series. The GB has been a steady seller for Ibanez, and evidently sufficient for George to be seen with them a lot of the time. -Rudy Sarzo has been with Hartley Peavey forever, his latest RS being based on the Cirrus axes. Jimmy, does Allen use his Carvins much in your road dates? I think ALEMBIC has the right to do whatever they think is best, and I imagine by NOT giving axes away they save themselves a lot of 'Spinal Tap' moments. Though I'm sure Ron could REALLY make one go to eleven . . . . J o e y | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1152 Registered: 5-2009 |
J o e y, I have seen ads and pictures of those Cirrus axes, but I have never played one . What is your opinion of those ? | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1443 Registered: 9-2002 |
IF you try one of the Mississippi-built basses, I feel like you will be very impressed. While these Peaveys are not the price-point leaders that their axes once were, for me it's easily one of the best and most overlooked neck-thrus out there. The pickups are very nice, sorta between Music Man and an AXY, though I'm no fan of onboard 3-band from anyone. The body is barely thicker than the neck which may or may not feel a bit strange to some. Can't be had in every wood known to man, but all the usual suspects are there. And it's a typically-Peavey solid piece, built to last. And they are often stuck at dealers, and can also be had fairly cheap the second time around as well. I've always been a big Hartley Peavey fan, and I applaud him for sticking with these things when bolt-ons seem to be the fashion these days. J o e y | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1155 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks for your response. Next time I see one of those Cirrus neck -thrus , (Mississippi -built) hanging in a shop I am going to check it out a bit closer and play it . | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2009 |
Jimmyj, I really appreciate what you said about people would always sound like themselves; even if they strapped on Stanley's actual bass. I totally agree with you... But I wonder if Stanley believe this? Both Armand Sabal Lecco and Lewis Johnson both owns Alembic basses, however when invited by Stanley to play, why would both bassist use some other bass instead of the Alembics they own? Also, why would bassist Victor Wooten, who also owned Alembics, use another bass when around Stanley? Yeah, I read all the reasons and theories, but it just seems like too many great bassist steer away from Alembics when playing with Clarke on tour, or in recording sessions. I would had loved to see and listened to more than one Alembic rumble on stage with Stanley, but from the looks of him and his management, maybe under some agreement, Alembics are reserved for only Stanley to play... and that's "no mystery" either. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 21, 2010) | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2653 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hal. As you've said, all these other bassists have at some time owned Alembics. However, for whatever reason they've moved on to play instruments they're more comfortable with (and now better known for e.g. victor and his Foderas). I can't imagine them being particularly keen to play an alembic in any session when they've already moved on to something else. Graeme | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 773 Registered: 12-2004 |
Lots of good points Guys! (Message edited by serialnumber12 on July 21, 2010) | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 65 Registered: 9-2009 |
#12, I don't believe Stanley "Liberated" the bass, (as he says) I believe it was "The Bass", that "Liberated" Stanley. Why "would", or "could" someone make such a statements like that in the first place? I wonder if Stanley really believes we were all waiting on him to liberate our basses... I am surprised Stanley's statements were never "checked and/or screened at the door..." on his bass liberation theories. Factually speaking, the bass was already invented, and open to anyone, from the very start. Also, by the time Stanley started playing the bass, there were a wide variety of styles readily available. I also believe, bass playing as we know it, from any artist(s) point of view, is only "one scratch" (their scratch) on the surface -- to the art of playing bass. One other thing... So, when I listen to Stanley playing the bass, I hear other bass players incorporated in his bass playing, and thus the wider scope of this incorporation, the greater the versatility one could appreciate. If the scope of the listener(s) are limited or skewed, they miss the true nature of the musical ingredients in the soup. To "copy" from others, while disguising it, is a true art indeed. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 21, 2010) | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 594 Registered: 5-2007 |
I always wondered what "JJ" stood for in the Showcase section on signature models. I did not know it was for Jimmy Johnson. Who are "SJ, MJ and EVH"? | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2044 Registered: 6-2002 |
Stanley Jordan, Michael Jordan, Eddie Van Halen Just kidding, SJ = Stanley Clarke Signature Standard MJ = Mark King Signature Standard EVH = Edwin Van Huik Signature model. Jazzyvee | ||
| funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member Username: funkyjazzjunky Post Number: 595 Registered: 5-2007 |
Who is Edwin Van Huik? No disrespect to him but I am not familiar with him. He must be phenomenal to warrant an such an honor | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2009 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXKFTzlBziI Man, I love that little boy's line... In other words: "Free your mind (Liberate your mind...), and your ass will follow..." - George Clinton Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 21, 2010) | ||
| keith_h
Junior Username: keith_h Post Number: 1650 Registered: 2-2005 |
Edwin is a Dutch Alembic dealer and bass player in Europe. His store is called The Bass Connection. I've always thought of him as the European Beaver Felton. I don't know much about his background and am sure some of the European folks will fill in more information. Keith | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1444 Registered: 9-2002 |
On the other hand . . . as Mica says , they never throw out any templates . . . so, if you REALLY wanted one JUST LIKE Stanley or Jimmy or Mark King purchased, couldn't they just dig out the build record and build one for YOU? Say, if you wanted that orange-y, vermillion top Brown Bass that SC had on the cover of BASS PLAYER a few years back, couldn't they just build another one for you? J o e y | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 774 Registered: 12-2004 |
You Guys are as Bright as a Brand new set of Rotosounds! | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 603 Registered: 1-2008 |
Flats or Roundwounds? | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2658 Registered: 10-2002 |
"You Guys are as Bright as a Brand new set of Rotosounds!" I'm still trying to figure out if that's an insult :-) Graeme (definitely not as bright as a supernova) | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 776 Registered: 12-2004 |
It was meant as a compliment for all the good vibes and opinions from the club........& Rotosounds happen to be my strings of choice. | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 71 Registered: 9-2009 |
When Stanley Clarke was up there, dawning a traditional cap and gown, to receive his honorary PhD, I was very proud of him, and his character. But as soon after Stanley got up there, and blasted Miles Davis on calling, and saying Miles was a "Car freak" and said Miles "must been on drugs" for Miles "alleged" theories on musical space, which Stanley contrived as a punch line... (as looking for others to laugh) and "the whole 9", I didn't laugh, nor did I find it funny. Franky, I was very petrified, and filled with discontentment, and didn't want to believe Stanley would say something like he did. It was like a public smack-down on Miles works. Here's the clip... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB3rPrqVB9Q I don't believe Stanley could ever face the hard road set forth for Miles... and even as hard as it was, Miles still achieved much beauty and love in everything he ever did, or wanted to do. Miles did more than just music, and he did more for music than Stanley Clarke could understand, for Miles Davis opened the door for Stanley Clarke, and the multitudes of bassist yet born, and he did this before Stanley Clarke knew his own name. Both Chic Corea and Lenny White came from Miles bands before there ever was a "Return to Forever" band. Chic and Lenny were "STUDENTS" of Miles. It was only through Miles musical guest list, Stanley's future would become of interest. Also, for someone who never played with Miles, professionally, I found Stanley's comments without merit for lack of proof, and completely utterly disrespectful. Also, there's no mention of Stanley Clarke in any of Miles Davis Autobiographies to account for such a meeting, or encounter. In fact, I can't even find the name Stanley Clarke listed within the index of Miles books. So, where's the proof? Also, just because someone drives a Ferrari, they are "car freaks"? When Stanley sounded off, Miles was already laid to rest, and in peace from this world. Why would Stanley wait so long to say these horrible and despicable things? Why would Stanley not have the courage to say these things directly to Miles face when Miles was here: alive and well? That is so wrong, and without Stanley apologizing, I will never support Stanley's music again, (nor could my conscious allow me to do so) unless he was medically insane... (Honestly, I must admit, I had not purchased Stanley Clarke's music since the early 80's when he played with Louis Johnson on the Rock, Pebbles and Sand album). Frankly, I thought that album very very good. Stanley's action was like that of a coward, or a trader, to some extent, hinged on a sellout move. I can't believe Stanley's statements, no more than anyone thinking I trust the heralds of his new line of basses (which are mere copies of Alembics). Stanley should get on his hands and knees and thank GOD for Miles Davis. Just as I believe Miles Davis music, and ideas were more profound than anything Stanley created musically, politically or philosophically (so far), I also believe Alembics basses are more profound than anything Stanley "ever/never" created and played (so far). I would love to eat my words, for I know the taste very well... I never underestimate the power of GOD, and the forces only love could bring someone to speak, and "to come to know of thy self". If Stanley puts himself up there, as a leader, he should learn to speak with more grace of his elders and great leaders before him, and teach those younger, to prepare for the future, or simply say nothing at all. I hope he speaks to this issue, to alleviate the confusion... maybe someday he will because, I know GOD can change anybody. I hope he amend, and continue to be a force in the music. Lastly, Miles Davis never needed a signature horn, or dedications of any validation of valor. "Miles already know, who he be..." without all the praises. Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on July 24, 2010) | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 777 Registered: 12-2004 |
like Prince Said........"Mamma R U Listening?" | ||
| toma_hawk01
Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2009 |
Miles Davis mention Prince in his autobiographies many times. Miles loved Prince, and Prince has the highest regards for Miles. How can he not feel this way? I watched a video where Prince asked Miles to perform cold turkey... un-planned, and Miles accepted "just like that" no warmups or nothing, and just slammed some serious horns while Prince played... what? (you guessed it...) the bass. That was so cool. Peace and Love, Hal- | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 1097 Registered: 11-2004 |
It's always a problem when people (whether they are musicians, artists, movie stars, politicians, athletes, etc.) are assigned "god status", whether it is assigned by themselves, the media, their fans, or whoever. First of all, they are not gods; they are just people with talent. They may develop egos that convince them otherwise but it doesn't change the fact. Second, if they take all the praise to heart, they may forget the contributions of those who came before them, those who paved the way and made their road easier to travel. There are some huge talents that probably were destined for greatness. I think that they should show respect for others in their professions, regardless of the heights that they have personally attained. But I don't know how I would act if people had been bowing down to me for decades, so I can't really say. It puts me off to hear some of the disrespectful things that celebrities say about others (including some things on Stanley's official website). I think a little humility is a great thing for a person's character. That said, over the last 35 years I have enjoyed a lot of Stanley's music. Whether or not I buy more of his CDs, go see him play live, or pay any attention to him, I will always have the things he has contributed to my life in the past. The most important thing he has given me is making me aware of Alembic. That is something that has given me a lot of hands-on enjoyment just about every day of the last 6 years. Rich | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4504 Registered: 7-2004 |
Except for Clapton. He is god. It used to say so all over the London subway, so it must be true! Bill, tgo | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 1099 Registered: 11-2004 |
Bill, I guess you are correct. I forgot about Clapton and the London subway. Between it and The Onion (America's Finest News Source) you don't need to go anywhere else for accurate information. Rich | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4505 Registered: 7-2004 |
Don't leave out the internet - the bathroom wall of the 21st century! hehehehe Bill, tgo |
